The NZA Posted October 18, 2009 Author Share Posted October 18, 2009 unlike my decision to vote for batman defeating captain america--which was based on logic-- ...aaaand this is where i stopped reading. the concept of a vulan-avatar'd friend who defies logic/reading is a dark and unsettling road. however, i did ruffle through (like potato chips) the less crazy bits, and found: now i'm definitely behind on my GL reading and am far from an expert on GL mythos (as is NZA), wait, wait. i admit to having read scarcely little Alan Scott (golden age) but ive read some Jordan and a fair amount of Kyle Rayner. i actually own a green latnern ring, which i bought directly from Mart Nodell, the charcater's creator! we talked about GL for like 10 minutes before he revealed who he was, no lie. blew my mind. anyway, besta recognize. *it should be noted id be quite happy to have someone who knows more about GL around. 's why i said I miss Jumbie, he's a big DC fan, read tremendously more Superman and Batman both than anyone id met before. perhaps he could show you the truth about Cap's inevitable victory in other threads? i dunno, i fear its gonna take booze and strange agreements at h-con but ive not given up hope on you yet is my point, young haku. on topic, though: i wanted current info on the Surfer, and newtype's been following marvel's big cosmic shit the other year, Ahnialation, and the fallout (mostly in Nova) since, swears the Surfer's colder and stronger than before. now, what you were saying - i think Hal's at least back to his pre-Parallax days of strength. i dont know i ever thought him that creative (that was what i liked about Rayner, less big green boxing gloves etc) but you're not wrong about his sheer force of will. as far as the new spectrum affecting him....theyve said that if he wears blue (hope) + green (will) he's greatly amplified. i think id like to see that fight...im just trying to picture who Jordan's fought on Surfer's level. Mongul? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alive she cried Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 So he can't make an army of himself anymore, however he's still 100% unkillable. As is Wolvie, he fell in the sun and survived. Somehow I think the sun is more powerful than Lobo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 As is Wolvie, he fell in the sun and survived.Somehow I think the sun is more powerful than Lobo. Recall that Lobo came from a planet of beings as strong as him: He killed all of the other people on his planet (How I don't know, but he's badly written so I could honestly give a fuck) and I don't know who wrote that falling into the sun bit but that probably will go down in my mind as Wolvy popping the claws through his deep sea Iron-Man suit and Wolvy being killed by being knocked into an electric fence by the Punisher as some of the the most brashly bullshit moments ever recorded to newsprint. Wolverine's never been invincible, damned hard to kill, but not invincible and while it's never been really clear on what can kill him (bad writing) it's never been said that it's not possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycaon Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Wolverine's never been invincible, damned hard to kill, but not invincible and while it's never been really clear on what can kill him (bad writing) it's never been said that it's not possible. The Xavier Protocals offered a suggestion back when Wolverine didn't have an adamantium skeleton anymore. Code 0-2-1 (Wolverine): "Since the loss of his adamantium, Wolverine has become both more and less of a threat. He is divested of his unbreakable skeleton - but his senses and his mutant healing factor have been increased to incredible levels. What would have been a lethal wound to Wolverine three years ago would now be a momentary annoyance. Any assault on Wolverine, in the event of his sanity breaking, would have to be long-range and decisive. His head would have to be severed, and removed utterly from the vicinity of his body to prevent swift flesh and nerve regrowth." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Yeah, but he has an inorganic skeleton again, and metal doesn't heal unless you're the T-1000 (he's not) so while yes, an organic Wolverine would be much harder to kill, that's not the score here. Plus, it does imply that you could kill him by severing his head, something that won't work with Lobo. It's also worth note that in a crossover with Dark Horse, Lobo managed to stalemate The Mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted October 19, 2009 Author Share Posted October 19, 2009 in a recent issue of the new miniseries "Weapon X", he admitted he's quietly afraid of the sea, cause he can very much be drowned. that's another angle. ASC - ive seen recently have Fury tell him he was created to be a killer of other superheros and some other interesting shit, but when exactly did you see him tossed into the sun & survive? if you're talking about that Weapon Zero shit with Grant Morrisson, you gotta know it was Phoenix who kept him alive. if you're any kind of X-Fan, you've read Days of Future Past, where a master Sentinel killed Logan by frying his skin/organs right off with a blast that looked like something Cyclops can do when he unloads. i love my boy, but he can die, it just takes a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 in a recent issue of the new miniseries "Weapon X", he admitted he's quietly afraid of the sea, cause he can very much be drowned. that's another angle. Whoa, I did not know this was in cannon. If it's true, then that puts a big spin on my views of him and how'd he do in fights w/ Bats & Cap let alone Hulk... And would severing Logan's head kill him? I think in Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk this happened off panel yet he managed to recoup. Again that's Ultimate Universe though... ...aaaand this is where i stopped reading. the concept of a vulan-avatar'd friend who defies logic/reading is a dark and unsettling road. however, i did ruffle through (like potato chips) the less crazy bits, and found: touche, my snippy friend. but in my defense, if you're going to put so much effort into a crazy talk post like your cap/bats one then you can't harbor all this ill will towards those logical, rational minded people that ignore skim it. wait, wait. i admit to having read scarcely little Alan Scott (golden age) but ive read some Jordan and a fair amount of Kyle Rayner. i actually own a green latnern ring, which i bought directly from Mart Nodell, the charcater's creator! we talked about GL for like 10 minutes before he revealed who he was, no lie. blew my mind. anyway, besta recognize. you're trying to make me hate you, aren't you? all kidding aside, you're gonna let me try that mo'fo on so it can be my fb profile pic from here until the end of eternity. you know this, right? *it should be noted id be quite happy to have someone who knows more about GL around. 's why i said I miss Jumbie, he's a big DC fan, read tremendously more Superman and Batman both than anyone id met before. perhaps he could show you the truth about Cap's inevitable victory in other threads? i dunno, i fear its gonna take booze and strange agreements at h-con but ive not given up hope on you yet is my point, young haku. protip: a hot stripper can convince an inebriated man of almost anything... on topic, though: i wanted current info on the Surfer, and newtype's been following marvel's big cosmic shit the other year, Ahnialation, and the fallout (mostly in Nova) since, swears the Surfer's colder and stronger than before. now, what you were saying - i think Hal's at least back to his pre-Parallax days of strength. i dont know i ever thought him that creative (that was what i liked about Rayner, less big green boxing gloves etc) but you're not wrong about his sheer force of will. as far as the new spectrum affecting him....theyve said that if he wears blue (hope) + green (will) he's greatly amplified. i think id like to see that fight...im just trying to picture who Jordan's fought on Surfer's level. Mongul? so you're in the surfer camp 4life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted October 20, 2009 Author Share Posted October 20, 2009 Whoa, I did not know this was in cannon. If it's true, then that puts a big spin on my views of him and how'd he do in fights w/ Bats & Cap let alone Hulk... And would severing Logan's head kill him? I think in Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk this happened off panel yet he managed to recoup. Again that's Ultimate Universe though... its weird, right? i kinda never thought about it much, but he's vulnerable to it. he doesnt have that deadpool/lobo "regrow from a single cell" thing (thank god). as far as headless...you know, i dont know ive seen that in the regular U. i saw him get his heart ripped out, but never decapitated, even when he didnt have the adamantium anymore. i think the difference is in 616 universe, they treat it like his tendons/joints/everything are metal so nothing gets separated. in Ultimate, he can get metal limbs ripped right out at around the joint, like Hulk did to him a few times. i totally forgot about that headless scene, cause...ew. touche, my snippy friend. but in my defense, if you're going to put so much effort into a crazy talk post like your cap/bats one then you can't harbor all this ill will towards those logical, rational minded people that ignore skim it. your anti-literacy stance and glorified gangsta lifestyle are what's ruining our inner city youth, haku, and ill indulge neither. you're trying to make me hate you, aren't you? all kidding aside, you're gonna let me try that mo'fo on so it can be my fb profile pic from here until the end of eternity. you know this, right? only if it fits your middle finger. people wearing it on their ring finger anger me. so you're in the surfer camp 4life? eh, i just cant see it (shy of Ion stepping in) but id like to...again to start id need some powerful villain GL's taken on his own. i gotta see he can hang in Surfer's bracket, cause newt is on about how he's more powerful than ever, and he was no slouch to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 eh, i just cant see it (shy of Ion stepping in) but id like to...again to start id need some powerful villain GL's taken on his own. i gotta see he can hang in Surfer's bracket, cause newt is on about how he's more powerful than ever, and he was no slouch to start. Does the entire Orange Lantern Corps count for nothing? Regardless, you'll recall that the ring's only limitation is imagination and willpower and while he's not Kyle Rayner (who decides to make Pat Lee style Optimus Prime to rescue a kitten out of a tree and use up all the ring's power) he's not really using giant boxing gloves anymore. And of all the lanterns I'd say Hal is easily the strongest when it comes to willpower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alive she cried Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 in a recent issue of the new miniseries "Weapon X", he admitted he's quietly afraid of the sea, cause he can very much be drowned. that's another angle. ASC - ive seen recently have Fury tell him he was created to be a killer of other superheros and some other interesting shit, but when exactly did you see him tossed into the sun & survive? if you're talking about that Weapon Zero shit with Grant Morrisson, you gotta know it was Phoenix who kept him alive. if you're any kind of X-Fan, you've read Days of Future Past, where a master Sentinel killed Logan by frying his skin/organs right off with a blast that looked like something Cyclops can do when he unloads. i love my boy, but he can die, it just takes a lot. Yeah I know Phoenix saved him and I have read Days of Future Past. I wasn't being serious near the end. As I already admitted in my original post, I don't know much about a lot of the DC characters. I was just fuckin' with baytor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 I was just fuckin' with baytor. Aw, come on you have to at least get me riled up before you get to pull that card. Good day sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycaon Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 Good day sir. But-! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Okay, so I've been trying to hunt down more accurate fights for our characters and I've had to get pretty fucking obscure (Marvel has more unique characters than people give them credit for: Superman vs. Sentry = Superman wins due to actually having his shit together Hulk vs. ? = Couldn't find DC counterpart Captain America vs. ? Wolverine vs. ? = I can see why they paired him with Lobo as there's really no counterpart for him otherwise, bout the closes I could get was B'Wana Beast and even that's a fucking farcry. Lobo vs. Deadpool = Deadpool wins Batman vs. Black Panther = Close fight and really depends on scenery I'd say, Batman's got the cities, Panther has just about everywhere else. Moon Knight vs. Azrael (Jean-Paul Valley) = Moon Knight wins Green Lantern (Hal) vs. Nova = I'm told Nova is uber-powerful right now, but I still give Hal the benefit of the doubt. Silver Surfer vs. Ion = Really the closest counterpart there is. Juggernaut vs. Doomsday = Most would say Doomsday but The Juggernaut is often downplayed too much. Fucker survived being torn down to a skeleton and the fully powered version can tear holes in the time-space continuum. Flash vs. Quicksilver = Still good, Flash still wins Wonder Woman vs. Thundra = Wonder Woman Deathstroke vs. Paladin = Deathstroke Storm vs. ? = Couldn't find any DC characters with weather powers Elektra vs. Talia Head = Not the best fit, but still better than Catwoman. Elektra wins Etrigan vs. Ghost Rider (either one) = Ghost Rider wins Punisher vs. ? = The closest I could find was either the Spectre (way out of Frank's league) or Jason Todd Spider-Man vs. Animal Man? = A reach and a bit unbalanced, maybe Vixen? Animal Man. Daredevil vs. The Question = This one makes sense in my head but I don't know why. I give the Question the benefit of the doubt. Thor vs. Hawkman = Good fight, Thor wins Captain Marvel vs. Captain Marvel (Rick Jones) = The Rick Jones Captain would kick Shazam's spitcurled ass. Aquaman vs. Namor = Still Namor Black Cat vs. Catwoman = Hard to be sure, probably Catwoman, it would be hot though. Hawkeye vs. Green Arrow = With no disrespect to Hawkeye, Green Arrow wins I could come up with more, but I wont for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 some fun ones in there, Lobo v Deadpool'd be cool to see, cant believe no one thought of Moon Knight vs Azrael before, thatd be awesome. doesnt Doomsday just come back immune to whatever beat him? wouldnt that at least make round 2 with the Hulk pretty good? i mean, Hulk pounded fucking Onslaught into oblivion once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Okay, so I've been trying to hunt down more accurate fights for our characters and I've had to get pretty fucking obscure (Marvel has more unique characters than people give them credit for: Juggernaut vs. Doomsday = Most would say Doomsday but The Juggernaut is often downplayed too much. Fucker survived being torn down to a skeleton and the fully powered version can tear holes in the time-space continuum. Daredevil vs. The Question = This one makes sense in my head but I don't know why. I give the Question the benefit of the doubt. Black Cat vs. Catwoman = Hard to be sure, probably Catwoman, it would be hot though. Hawkeye vs. Green Arrow = With no disrespect to Hawkeye, Green Arrow wins I could come up with more, but I wont for now. *Doomsday killed fuckin' Superman. Juggernaut fails. *I don't know squat about the Question other than it's currently Lezzie McGuire aka Renee Montoya. Daredevil would kick her ass then fuck her straight. *BC vs CW: the winners are the fans. Somewhere on NZA's HD is a nude gif of this fight occurring. Share, you greedy bastard! *I never got why Ollie is considered so badass in the DCU, but he is. Ultimate Hawkeye would mop the floor w/ him though. What about villains? I'd be interested in seeing how you'd match those up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycaon Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 some fun ones in there, Lobo v Deadpool'd be cool to see, cant believe no one thought of Moon Knight vs Azrael before, thatd be awesome. doesnt Doomsday just come back immune to whatever beat him? wouldnt that at least make round 2 with the Hulk pretty good? i mean, Hulk pounded fucking Onslaught into oblivion once. You're talking about round two after all that with Captain America vs. Batman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Azrael was kind of a ripoff of Moon Knight to begin with, so it wasn't a hard connection to make. (I love them both, truth be told.) *Doomsday killed fuckin' Superman. Juggernaut fails. You'll recall that not only did Superman come back, he hasn't lost to Doomsday once since then. Nor has anyone else for that matter. And when I used The Question I meant the original one that inspired Rorschach. Juggernaut is truly underrated, he could beat the Hulk (Red or otherwise) and is about the only character in the Marvel Universe that could. Plus, as I said he was once stripped down to a skeleton (inexplicably he still had the helmet on) and not only survived but went on to kick D'Spair's ass and this was at regular power, not the full power of Cyttorak as seen in Eighth Day. As for villains aside from Juggs and Doomsday... Bullseye vs. Deadshot = Bullseye, no contest Norman Osbourne vs. Lex Luthor = They would both undoubtedly make a cure for AIDs and use it to try and kill each other. Norman would obviously pull out a win with the use of 40 cakes as a distraction. Clayface vs. Sandman = Hard to call but I'd lean more toward Sandman Taskmaster vs. Prometheus = Taskmaster Dr. Doom vs. Ra's Al Ghul = Dr. Doom even before all that Millar bullshit. The man used to go to hell every year and challenge Mephisto just to prove he was the bigger man. Whizzer vs. Dr. Zoom (AKA the battle of who has a stupider fucking name?) = Dr. Zoom probably Darkseid vs. Thanos = I vote Darkseid just because there has never been a panel of Darkseid being led away in handcuffs by police officers. Ghost vs. Mirror Master = Mirror Master Jigsaw vs. Two-Face = Two-Face The Owl vs. The Penguin = Whoever wins, we all snooze The Joker vs. Carnage = Without the suit, Joker wins, with the suit Joker doesn't stand a chance. Bane vs. Nuke = Bane Scarecrow vs. Mysterio = Scarecrow Those are what I came up with off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycaon Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Clayface vs. Sandman = Hard to call but I'd lean more toward Sandman I'm not so sure about this one. Clayface (I'm assuming Basil Karlo; There've been several Clayfaces in DC) is pretty powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Nice list! I agree w/ pretty much all of them except: . As for villains aside from Juggs and Doomsday... Dr. Doom vs. Ra's Al Ghul = Dr. Doom even before all that Millar bullshit. The man used to go to hell every year and challenge Mephisto just to prove he was the bigger man. The Joker vs. Carnage = Without the suit, Joker wins, with the suit Joker doesn't stand a chance. Those are what I came up with off the top of my head. I do agree w/ the outcomes of these matches and I know ya came up w/ this on the fly, but there's gotta be better/more even match-ups for these. . . Also I'm thinking Mysterio would do in Scarecrow. Crane's gas only operates on fear. Mysterio's shit is an all encompassing hallucinogenic and good enough to fool Logan into slaughtering the X-men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 You're talking about round two after all that with Captain America vs. Batman? yeah, i know, but isnt Doomsday's whole shtick "he's invincible to whatever just beat him"? i figure its the only interesting thing about the fight. like baytor said, since that one time he beat supes, he's kinda been an afterthought...i remember that run where you thought he'd killed some JLA kids. there's no fear like that now when he shows up. its like Sabretooth, who damn near killed Psyclocke and a few other x-chicks in the day, then Power Pack beat him and boom, he's in line after Omega Red to fight Genration X. ugh. i need to see more on the original, Rorscarch-inspiring question and how he'd match up, it sounds like a fight though. Juggernaut is truly underrated, he could beat the Hulk (Red or otherwise) and is about the only character in the Marvel Universe that could. Plus, as I said he was once stripped down to a skeleton (inexplicably he still had the helmet on) and not only survived but went on to kick D'Spair's ass and this was at regular power, not the full power of Cyttorak as seen in Eighth Day. controversial statement is controversial. im trying to recall who ive seen beat Juggs...Onslaught, Superman (i know, doesnt really count), i wanna say the x-men have come out on top but i cant recall seeing it. Spidey once trapped him in cement, that was awesome. Darkseid vs. Thanos = I vote Darkseid just because there has never been a panel of Darkseid being led away in handcuffs by police officers. i know ive missed a lot of FF and surfer books, but whaaaa? i gotta see that. Bane vs. Nuke = Bane Nuke's kinda done now (finally) but has Bane come back to being powerful again? Cause after they revealed making Nuke, they really got into how powerful he was. i gotta read Miller's DD run again sometime, but i recall Cap and Thor having a hand in stopping him there. Haku - i love Old Man Logan, but i still cant buy Mysterio "tricking" Logan's senses! it worked awesome for the story, but i guess its better they didnt even bother trying to explain. current Amazing Spider-Man had a better take on Mysterio, but man, their Chameleon was like an evil Jason Bourne. shit was fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Haku - I know Mysterio's holo cubes are all-emcompasing, but though I like the character he is kind of a pussy. Though I suppose so is Dr. Crane, and I suppose a stunt man would be able to take a psychiatrist (You know one that doesn't have hulk powers or magical moon stones) so yeah, I guess you're right. Custer - Okay, here's the deal with Juggernaut. When he's beat he gets beat on a technicality, it's because a psychic hits his brain or because the hulk causes him to get stuck in the ground, or Thor gets him cemented into the foundation of a skyscraper or some bullshit. Nobody has ever bested him in a physical fight and shy of getting him stuck for a while or ejecting him from the battlefield there's really no-one he can't beat because he draws on a near-endless reservoir of power. So long as what he's doing is him being a dick there's really no limit to the power that Cyttorak will give him. Of course Doomsday always comes back but I figure one death counts if it actually is a death. Original pre-DC Question for all intents and purposes WAS Rorschach, only he spoke proper English and wasn't as crazy. The Question from The Dark Knight Strikes Back was true to the original. i need to see more on the original, Rorscarch-inspiring question and how he'd match up, it sounds like a fight though. controversial statement is controversial. As for the Thanos thing, I saw it on Superherohype boards and have been searching for it ever since. It was a silver age moment and literally showed Thanos cuffed and lead into a police car by two normal police officers. Nuke's kinda done now (finally) You clearly haven't been reading Thunderbolts lately. Norman's hired a real team of dicks lately. As for Bane, I meant the classic smart and strong Bane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycaon Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 Didn't Thunderstrike beat Juggernaut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 He got him put in the foundation of a skyscraper where he remained for a goodly amount of time. He's never actually been beaten to the point of passing out or being killed, some special ability or such has always come into play to help him. Juggernaut was also one of at least 3 characters that should've, could've, and would've beaten Hulk during the World War Hulk event. Hulk had taken out pretty much all of the X-Men and Juggernaut comes in at usual strength and is actually doing really good and then Hulk uses his momentum against him and gets him waist deep stuck in the ground and he can't free himself in time to stop Hulk before he leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted October 26, 2009 Author Share Posted October 26, 2009 oh, right...i completely forgot about Thunderbolts right now. after they brought back Mr. X (...) anything goes, and there's Nuke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycaon Posted October 26, 2009 Share Posted October 26, 2009 He got him put in the foundation of a skyscraper where he remained for a goodly amount of time. He's never actually been beaten to the point of passing out or being killed, some special ability or such has always come into play to help him. Juggernaut was also one of at least 3 characters that should've, could've, and would've beaten Hulk during the World War Hulk event. Hulk had taken out pretty much all of the X-Men and Juggernaut comes in at usual strength and is actually doing really good and then Hulk uses his momentum against him and gets him waist deep stuck in the ground and he can't free himself in time to stop Hulk before he leaves. You're saying he'd have beaten the Hulk, except the Hulk fought more intelligently and won? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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