Thelogan Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Putting a documentary on your top ten is like voting for Pat Buchanan, throwing your vote away. I could make a documentary with a sony handycam and $12, edit in some stock footage and songs that were popular 30 years ago and I have something as polished and well-made as anything Al Gore, Michael Moore, and Morgan Spurlock can put out. Bullshit, and only someone who has never tried would be naive enough to say that. Clearly there's something political going on, so I'm gonna bypass that and use King of Kong as an example. Do you have any comprehension of how many hundreds, sometimes thousands of hours of footage have to be watched, rewatched and edited into something that's somewhat cohesive? Making some blanket statement like Anybody can put facts out there, and anybody can state their opinion but there's not a lot of effort that has to be put forth. just boggles my mind with its absurdity. You realize that you pretty much said that nothing you've ever written here or on your little site took any effort, right? I totally believe that, but there's way more that goes into making a good documentary, and the best ones have nothing to do with being as controversial as possible or being a former vice president It's not as much work as a big feature film, but it does take skill. And it's a skill that needs to be developed in order to get watchable results. You couldn't do it, not as easily as you claim. I promise that you would develop a respect for those that accomplish something entertaining if you ever bothered to actually attempt the shit your supposedly so good at. Fuck man, I don't wanna fight with ya, but sometimes your so full of yourself and so painfully naive it makes me cringe, probably because it reminds me of the retarded negative shit I used to spout 10 years ago. Speaking of documentaries, Heckler was entertaining and pretty much sums up how I feel about those whose goal is to "review". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 You know, personal insults will get all of you nowhere here. You all seem to think I take myself far more seriously than I really do. My blog is poorly written, I write my reviews in one go, any editing I do is something I catch glancing over it. I don't have aspirations to see my reviews anywhere else because I do them for fun, and any reviews I put out there are my opinion. And I don't think I'm a master film-maker, this is mostly evidenced by the fact that I DON'T MAKE THEM. When I say I could do something like make a documentary I'm implying that even an incompetent idiot such as myself could manage to put together something watchable. So insulting me or my "little" site isn't going to quite incite a reaction of anger out of me. Bullshit, and only someone who has never tried would be naive enough to say that. Clearly there's something political going on, so I'm gonna bypass that and use King of Kong as an example. Do you have any comprehension of how many hundreds, sometimes thousands of hours of footage have to be watched, rewatched and edited into something that's somewhat cohesive? Making some blanket statement like just boggles my mind with its absurdity. You realize that you pretty much said that nothing you've ever written here or on your little site took any effort, right? Claiming that somebody is ignorant and then following it up with a more ignorant statement doesn't help you case... Yes, I do have a basic comprehension of how making film works. I know how much work it is to edit footage, especially when you have a lot, but do you know who has it hardest when it comes to editing? The people behind hunting and fishing shows, but I don't think anybody here considers that high art. Any editor worth half a shit can cobble together any of the documentaries I've seen listed here, it's time consuming and it does take a certain flair but it's not as hard as putting together a film with actors and a story. And no, my statement doesn't say that documentaries take no effort. They take a lot of work, but there's significantly less work involved than in an actual movie. And things I've written here or on my little site took effort but I would certainly be confused if I saw either on a list of the best books of all time. I totally believe that, but there's way more that goes into making a good documentary, and the best ones have nothing to do with It's not as much work as a big feature film, but it does take skill. And it's a skill that needs to be developed in order to get watchable results. You couldn't do it, not as easily as you claim. I promise that you would develop a respect for those that accomplish something entertaining if you ever bothered to actually attempt the shit your supposedly so good at. Fuck man, I don't wanna fight with ya, but sometimes your so full of yourself and so painfully naive it makes me cringe, probably because it reminds me of the retarded negative shit I used to spout 10 years ago. Speaking of documentaries, Heckler was entertaining and pretty much sums up how I feel about those whose goal is to "review". Yes it takes skill, it takes skill to do ANYTHING and I'm not belittling that. Just because I complain it's bright doesn't mean I hate the sun for fuck's sake. I enjoy a large amount of documentaries. Super-Size Me, The Fearless Freaks, Gonzo, This Film is Not Yet Rated (that one obviously took a shit ton of work). It's like how I enjoy Dave Barry's books, I love his writing, the man's a fucking comedic genius, but if I saw any of them (except for Big Trouble, which is an actual novel) on a list of the best books ever written I'd feel it was kind of a cheat despite my love of the writing. Same way I feel when anything by Scott McCloud ends up on a "greatest graphic novels ever written" list. A feature film takes a lot of work, a documentary film takes a lot of work, but one takes significantly less work than the other. There's a reason all the awards shows separate documentaries into separate categories, because they're kind of incongruous. Even a mockumentary takes more work than a documentary and it shows in the finalized project. If you make shitty feature films you can still make good documentaries, evidence to support this point: And the crack about being controversial or a vice president was about getting your movie out there, not about making it great. The hook for a documentary is one of 3 things: 1. It says things that will piss people off 2. Somebody famous did 3. It has great word of mouth (most times this is from the festival circuit, I consider this to be the "legitimate" way to get your documentary, or any film for that matter, out there for everyone to see. I don't think it's terribly controversial to say that the documentaries that come from this route are usually better than those released any other way.) Now I'm not good at making films in general, but if I was going to start making movies a documentary would be a good place to start because it allows me to cut my teeth on the film-making process without having to have to deal with some of the tougher parts of making a movie. I would have a better chance of making a good documentary on a shoestring budget than a movie with a plot and characters. There, was that suitably self-deprecating or shall I roll in some shit to really sell the humility? 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Thelogan Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I'm satisfied with that. But you have to see how there's a bit of a disconnect between And no, my statement doesn't say that documentaries take no effort. and could make a documentary with a sony handycam and $12, edit in some stock footage and songs that were popular 30 years ago and I have something as polished and well-made as anything Al Gore, Michael Moore, and Morgan Spurlock can put out. Sorry if I got the wrong idea, I was just going by the words you wrote and not what you actually meant, my bad. Getting personal was out of line, sorry about that. I got all puffed-up because the initial statement was basically directed at K. It's a knee jerk reaction and a wrote it all in one keyboard-rattling go. I could have made my point without resorting to that at all, but I didn't think it through. Play on playa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 Sorry, I overdo the hyperbole at times, I forget that not everyone's used to it. If I make a ridiculous inflammatory statement, usually that's the point. Though I do realize I should probably reign it in a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Fuckin' thrizzleogan comin' in and stealin my post's thundah. mumblegrumble Sorry, I overdo the hyperbole at times, I forget that not everyone's used to it. If I make a ridiculous inflammatory statement, usually that's the point. Though I do realize I should probably reign it in a bit. Wow. Did that just really happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90sKid Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I'm too lazy to make lists right now, but I'll say this: Crash, I FUCKING HATE. The Darjeeling Limited would be in my top 10 of the decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I'm too lazy to make lists right now, but I'll say this: Crash, I FUCKING HATE. You and pretty much everybody but myself, FireDownBelow, EverMalice, and Metalheart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 (edited) I do want to say this about documentaries. Even if I were to accept the premise that they are several degrees of magnitude easier to make than a feature, what the fuck does that have to do with whether it should be in my top ten list? I mean, by this reasoning, Transformers 2 and Terminator Salvation, with their budgets exceeding $200 million, have more of a right to a spot on my list than Shaun of the Dead with its measly $4 million budget. Transformers 2 took over 50 times the effort to make than Shaun of the Dead. Who gives a fuck? If this list was of the top ten films of the 1990's, I wouldn't fault anyone for including Clerks or El Mariachi on the list, and those movies cost $27,000 and $7,000 respectively. If someone enjoyed a documentary more than any 10 other films s/he saw in the past ten years, it makes all the sense in the world to be on a top ten list. In fact, I've say it something of a challenge to hold an audience's attention for over 90 minutes without a story or performing actors. It's harder to keep something engaging without the elements of a story. Edited December 15, 2009 by Reverend Jax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I do want to say this about documentaries. Even if I were to accept the premise that they are several degrees of magnitude easier to make than a feature, what the fuck does that have to do with whether it should be in my top ten list? I mean, by this reasoning, Transformers 2 and Terminator Salvation, with their budgets exceeding $200 million, have more of a right to a spot on my list than Shaun of the Dead with its measly $4 million budget. Transformers 2 took over 50 times the effort to make than Shaun of the Dead. Who gives a fuck? If this list was of the top ten films of the 1990's, I wouldn't fault anyone for including Clerks or El Mariachi on the list, and those movies cost $27,000 and $7,000 respectively. If someone enjoyed a documentary more than any 10 other films s/he saw in the past ten years, it makes all the sense in the world to be on a top ten list. In fact, I've say it something of a challenge to hold an audience's attention for over 90 minutes without a story or performing actors. It's harder to keep something engaging without the elements of a story. I'm not talking monetary effort, I'm talking effort in putting forth a piece of entertainment. Documentaries are essays and movies are novels, the two aren't really comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 You and pretty much everybody but myself, FireDownBelow, EverMalice, and Metalheart. Huh? CRASH was a popular film. It won a best pic Oscar. They even turned it into TV series w/ Dennis Hopper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 My massively unsorted list. Lord of the Rings trilogy Shaun of the Dead City Of God Memento The Pianist Donnie Darko No Country For Old Men The Butterfly Effect Dead Inglourious Basterds Transformers Gladiator Training Day Black Hawk Down Mystic River City of God The Aviator Collateral Munich Crash The Departed The Last King of Scotland There Will Be Blood Michael Clayton Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance Oldboy The Dark Knight Memento District 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 I can help you narrow that down a bit. You have City of God twice. Also, Transformers sucked vinegary balls. And I think "The Butterfly Effect Dead" is not the name of a movie. The rest is up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 It was typed while quite drunk, I don't think there is meant to be a dead after the butterfly effect, but city of god is that good And we'll agree to disagree on transformers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HypnotizinChikns Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I'm too lazy to make lists right now, but I'll say this: Crash, I FUCKING HATE. The Darjeeling Limited would be in my top 10 of the decade. but no Royal Tenenbuams???? *confused!* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 i did a double take as well, cause "The Butterfly Effect Dead" sounds like something id like to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Lindsay Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) OK, I'm finally ready: 1. Oldboy 2. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind 3. Wall-E 4. Kill Bill 1 & 2 5. No Country for Old Men 6. Pan's Labyrinth 7. Gone Baby Gone 8. Man on Wire 9. The Chaser 10. Donnie Darko Honorable Mentions (i.e., could be swapped out with #10 on any given day): Amelie, Shaun of the Dead, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, My Sassy Girl, Sympathy for Mr. Vengeance, The Dark Knight, Memento, The Life Aquatic, District 9, Adaptation Edited December 16, 2009 by La Lindsay + Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalHeart Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) I could watch movies all day, every day, with you Lindsay. That is a mighty fine list of movies. Edited December 16, 2009 by MetalHeart jumbled up mah words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Lindsay Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Likewise!! Actually, I was kinda bummed that we didn't get to watch Let the Right One In together when you guys were here. I would also like to add that one to my honorable mentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 (edited) I'm bored, sober, in work and feeling like I need to make a list, so in no real order, 'ere goes. Its also a nice bump to see if anyone has any amendments to make to their lists etc. Oldboy In Bruges City Of God 25th Hour Collateral Spirited Away The Royal Tenenbaums Mar Adentro Gran Torino Broken Flowers Ones that nearly made it... Shaun of the Dead Amelie Up Howls Moving Castle Slumdog Millionaire Edited July 11, 2010 by the division of joy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted July 11, 2010 Author Share Posted July 11, 2010 Was going back through this thread and saw this 2002: Adaptation probably would've made the list, but I haven't seen it, so... You should really bring this movie to the top of your queue. I'd lend it to you, except my copy got snapped in half, plus you live in, like, Idaho or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alive she cried Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Was going back through this thread and saw this You should really bring this movie to the top of your queue. I'd lend it to you, except my copy got snapped in half, plus you live in, like, Idaho or something. I've been sitting on that for a couple of months now, may watch it tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalHeart Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Was going back through this thread and saw this You should really bring this movie to the top of your queue. I'd lend it to you, except my copy got snapped in half, plus you live in, like, Idaho or something. If he hasn't seen it by now, then we'll remedy that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alive she cried Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 I've been sitting on that for a couple of months now, may watch it tonight. I didn't watch Adaptation that night, but I did watch it a few weeks ago, it was brilliant, but not in my top 10. Here's my preliminary list 2000: Memento Snatch Best In Show 2001: Training Day Black Hawk Down The Royal Tenenbaums 2002: LOTR: The Two Towers City of God Adaptation 28 Days Later 2003: LOTR: The Return of the King Kill Bill Vol 1 Oldboy 2004: Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind Kill Bill Vol 2 Million Dollar Baby 2005: Batman Begins Sin City Good Night and Good Luck A History of Violence 2006: 300 Children of Men Little Miss Sunshine Borat 2007: No Country for Old Men Juno 2008: The Dark Knight WALL-E The Wrestler In Bruges 2009: Up Watchmen Inglorious Basterds Zombieland Bruno And then, my final TOP 10 in order 1. The Dark Knight 2. City of God 3. Up 4. Memento 5. Million Dollar Baby 6. Inglorious Basterds 7. Sin City 8. WALL-E 9. LOTR: The Two Towers 10. Good Night and Good Luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 (edited) OK, I finally made my list. In alphabetical order they are: Amelie Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl Slumdog Millionaire Spider-Man 2 Star Trek Star Wars Episode III The Dark Knight There Will Be Blood WALL-E Whale Rider I hadn't seen UP when I made this, so that definitely replaces SW:Episode III. I could also maybe change out Finding Nemo for Whale Rider, but that'd just be too PIXAR heavy, right? And Oldboy, Children of Men, Sin City, and the last two LOTR films all have me rethinking Spidey-2 on that list. Edited August 4, 2012 by Mr. Hakujin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alive she cried Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 And then, my final TOP 10 in order 1. The Dark Knight 2. City of God 3. Up 4. Memento 5. Million Dollar Baby 6. Inglourious Basterds 7. Sin City 8. WALL-E 9. LOTR: The Two Towers 10. Good Night and Good Luck I completely forgot about two movies that would definitely be on there The Proposition and Garage Revised list 1. The Proposition 2. City of God 3. The Dark Knight 4. Up 5. Garage 6. Memento 7. Inglourious Basterds 8. Million Dollar Baby 9. Sin City 10. WALL-E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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