Red Sox/Yankees rivalry

[Benz]

Thanks, man. Yeah, pretty much New York's seen by Boston as the thief that stole the spotlight. Boston was the first major city, New York came after. Boston had the first big banks and financial companies, New York came and had more, etc. At least Boston's cleaner. Anyhow, it was the same with baseball. Boston won the first World Series in 1903, then again in 1912, 1915, 1916, and 1918. Then the infamous trade of Babe Ruth from the Red Sox to the Yankees for $100,000 (a fuck ton of money back then) by traitorous owner Frazee who was buds with the Yankees, and the subsequent selling off of all the good players and the manager to the Yankees for more money, and the infamous Curse of the Bambino.

 

Boston fans are like no other. When there's a Yankees game, you can clearly hear "Yankees Suck!" being chanted on the TV (evenmore so I imagine when you're there. We also boo and chant "You do steroids!" when A-Rod gets up to the plate. Heh.) At the same time, I believe we're the only ones that will boo our own team for losing (except the Red Sox I think. We love them too much.) or making a stupid mistake.

[Jables]

Nice summary, I thank you for it. What I wanna know though, is if Boston fans when at a game not involving the Yankees in any way will still randomly get up and trachtalk the Yankees?

[Jumbie]

This Yankee-Red Sox rivalry... is it the one where they try to outdo each other in who can waste the most time at the plate?

 

 

 

The Yankees, or at least the modern incarnation of the team, represents everything wrong with American society.

Can't wait to hear this...

 

 

I resent their arrogance.

I'm with the writer here. Personality is a legitimate part of why you support a team. In fact, very important.

 

 

It begins at the top. George Steinbrenner is not a good person. He was convicted in 1974 of a felony for making illegal contributions to Richard Nixon’s re-election campaign. Ronald Reagan pardoned him as he was heading out of office. Think about that, Yankee fans. You are supporting a man who thinks he is above the law.

 

Steinbrenner’s tenure as Yankees owner has been no better. He has publicly humiliated players, including Dave Winfield in 1983, for not playing well and was banned from baseball for life in 1990 because he paid a gambler to dig up dirt on the outfielder, though he was reinstated in 1993. When anyone tries to tell me that the Yankees are classy, I say give me a break. Joe Torre is classy, but the Boss forced him out.

 

Again, if their boss is a dick, you're quite justified to hate his team. This is why I have such a hard time with the IPL's Kolkata Knightriders, even though my favorite player got purchased by them.

 

 

It is no secret that the Yankees have the highest payroll in baseball. They are able to field good teams because they can give the best players the most money. A third of the current Yankee lineup — Johnny Damon, Mark Teixeira and Alex Rodriguez — and their best pitcher, C.C. Sabathia, played in the All-Star Game before the Yankees signed them.

 

While signing these players is entirely within the rules, it contradicts everything we value about sports.

 

Wha wha what?

 

 

The Yankees are good not because they develop players better, scout better or work harder. The Yankees are good because they play in a big market and have a rich owner. Is this the sort of achievement we value?

 

Look, the players are obviously getting developed and scouted and they work hard. If someone else does the developing and they get PAID for it, then does that negate the hard work the individual players and their coaches put in before the Yankees showed up? A team is like a band man: If you can play, we'll put you on the stage, but we don't have to teach you how to string your guitar for the fans to respect us.

 

 

Additionally, there is a mentality among Yankees fans that they deserve to win because they spend more money than everybody else. In 2006, when they lost to the Tigers in the American League Division Series, my freshman-year roommate blasted A-Rod for not performing in the playoffs because, to paraphrase, he’s getting paid so much. As if paying a player a lot should guarantee good performance.

 

Steinbrenner shares this philosophy, saying about Joe Torre before the 2007 ALDS against the Indians, “He’s the highest-paid manager in baseball, so I don’t think we’d take him back if we don’t win this series.” It wasn’t “I think another manager would do a better job,” which is the usual reason for firing a manager. It was we’re paying him a lot so he owes us.

 

guarantee a win? no. But yeah, you damn well better believe we'll be angry with a player if they accept a huge slary and don't perform. Remember, I said arrogance is a good reason in my eyes to hate a player or team and if a player accepts all that money he better perform or he exposes himself as being more full of arrogance than talent.

 

 

If the fact that the Yankees are good because they have money doesn’t make you think twice before rooting for them, consider where the money comes from (other than Steinbrenner). Ticket and merchandise revenue flows in from Yankee fans, many of whom work on Wall Street, many at the firms that took on too much risk, leading to a painful recession.

 

OK, first of all, I recommend you to the Economics Forum where we've pretty much tackled this whole false idea that Wall street created the recession.

 

Second, I go along with the idea of hating a team if they have stupid and obnoxious fans. One of the reasons I tend never to back India in any cricket game.

 

But hating them because they have money? or because of where they work?

 

That's some serious class warrior baggage to carry into sports. Is the writer saying that what's wrong with America is that we don't hate the capitalists enough?

 

 

 

 

 

*Just to be clear, I never support the Yankees, no matter who they play. That's because I'm a 'root for the underdog' kinda guy (in sports I don't know well) and also because of the arrogance I get off them and their fans.

[The NZA]

jumbie:

 

 

1) we did not "tackle" the idea of wall street's culpability; you libertarians reworded it to pass the buck from your free markets and the moves they made, as it fit your ideology.

 

2) you're trying to argue logic here in a sports rivalry thread. this is the socially more acceptable, but just as inane, cousin of console fanboys or really anyone who attributes human emotions to a corporation/product. for godsake, this rivalry apparently hinges on pretending free agency hasnt been a part of baseball for a generation or two now, and apparently, some leftover hate from boston for not studying american culture and realizing what about NY helped make it what it is (protip: Lenon called it "the capital of the world" for a reason). TL;DR: i dont know what you're doing here, much less me.

 

[Benz]

 

Protip: I like the Beetles, but Lenon, eh, he can take that quote and "Imagine" and shove them up his hippie bum. Free agency's fine, but there needs to be a salary cap so the Yankees can't continue their bullshit with their deepest pockets in the MLB. (Every other US sport has a salary cap that I'm aware of. Every other US sport also has free agents.) Even the playing field. You wouldn't mind seeing the Marlins win some more World Series, amirite? Culture? Boston > New York. Finances, sure New York has Boston beat (but Boston was first. Buncha thieves.). And New York can be what it is. Boston's cleaner, greener, and smarter (Harvard, MIT, BC). We don't want to copy New York, thanks.

 

 

I'll get to Mr. Jza and Jumbie's responses when I'm more coherent tomorrow (That doesn't in anyway change what I said above tho.)

[The NZA]

 

man, you need to make your boston case in culture. ive not been there, i know its cultural impact on the US. they do got good colleges. they got that new egnland pride some of our older cities have, this is good. i dont want them to copy NY anymore than i want miami to (well, the later's a lie, i dont mind parts of that here). but seeing NY as finance means you're focusing too much on the city itself and not the burroughs/cultural hubs where so, so much of our music, books, arts were created, and why that is (the melting pot coming out of being the port most of our families - mine included - came in from)...you're really missing the point there, man. that said..i should see boston one day. when its warm, heh.

 

 

but that's talk for culture, not NY. if you're saying most sports have a salary cap here in the states (you sure about that? basketball/football too?), then hey, you got an argument.

[Benz]

but that's talk for culture, not NY. if you're saying most sports have a salary cap here in the states (you sure about that? basketball/football too?), then hey, you got an argument.

 

Basketball's Salary Cap: Here

 

1. What is a salary cap? Why have one?

 

A salary cap is a limit on the amount teams can spend on player contracts, which helps to maintain competitive balance in the league. Without a salary cap, teams with deeper pockets can simply outspend the remaining teams for the better free agents. The basic idea is that a team can only sign a free agent if the total payroll for the team will not exceed the salary cap. So a team with deep pockets is playing on a level playing field with every other team.

 

The evidence bears this out: For the 2001-02 NBA season, the correlation between team payroll and regular season wins was about 0.13. In other words, there is nearly no correlation between salary and wins. By comparison, MLB (with no salary cap) had a much stronger correlation of 0.43 for its 2002 season.

2. What is a soft cap? What is the difference between a soft cap and a hard cap? Which does the NBA have?

 

The NBA has a soft cap. A hard cap doesn't allow the cap to be exceeded for any reason. A soft cap, which the NBA has, contains exceptions which allow teams to exceed the cap under certain conditions. In fact, historically very few teams are ever under the cap during a season.

3. Why have a soft cap?

 

The basic idea is to try to promote players' ability to stay with their current teams. Nobody likes it when a player plays with a team his entire career, the fans love him, he wants to stay and the team wants to keep him, but he has to leave because the team is unable to offer him a large enough contract. The exceptions under a soft cap allow teams to keep players under these kinds of circumstances.

 

I really like that #3. Johnny Damon (though I'm glad the bastard's gone now) probably wouldn't have left, more recently neither would Jason Bay.

 

Here's the NHL's salary cap info

 

All Salary caps can be found here.

 

For 2010 there is no Salary cap because there is no Collective Bargaining Agreement. Until now there's been a hard cap.

 

NFL owners voted in 2008 to opt out of the their collective bargaining agreement (CBA) with the National Football League Players Association (NFLPA) as of the end of the 2010 season. (The vote was 23 in favor, 9 against; the extension measure needed 24 to pass, which would have set the CBA to expire after the 2012 season). Unless a new CBA is reached with the NFLPA, 2010 will be an uncapped season,[31] meaning that there would be no salary cap or salary floor between which teams must operate.[32] Also, the uncapped season would limit unrestricted free agency only to players with at least six years of experience, as opposed to four under a capped season.[32] The final eight teams alive in the 2009–10 NFL playoffs (Arizona, Dallas, Minnesota and New Orleans in the NFC; and Baltimore, Indianapolis, the New York Jets and San Diego in the AFC) would also be restricted in the free agents they would be able to sign.[32]

 

In addition, owner Jerry Jones, whose Dallas Cowboys team is the wealthiest franchise in the NFL, has hinted that he may push for the elimination or severe reduction of revenue sharing for the uncapped season.[33] The creation of a separate salary cap for rookie players is also expected to be part of negotiations for a new CBA.[34]

 

The 2011 NFL season will have a work stoppage if there is no new CBA.[35]

 

The MLB has a Luxury Tax for exceeding a certain amount, but the Yankees (and yes a few other teams including the Red Sox, but it's been 95% Yankees) have been more than happy to pay it because again, they have the deep pockets to do so.

[Benz]

Nice summary, I thank you for it. What I wanna know though, is if Boston fans when at a game not involving the Yankees in any way will still randomly get up and trashtalk the Yankees?

 

Not that I've seen. We give standing ovations to former players on opposing teams with the exception of the Yankees and Johnny Damon. Johnny Damon's in his own category, getting boos being a former Red Sox player. We trash talk the Yankees at every opportunity in everyday conversation. But no, at a Tampa Bay Rays game we won't stand up and chant "Yankees Suck! Yankees Suck!" That's kinda odd... borderline psycho behavior.

 

This Yankee-Red Sox rivalry... is it the one where they try to outdo each other in who can waste the most time at the plate?

Can't wait to hear this...

 

Heh, perhaps. Derek Jeter is always calling time out and jumping around the batter's box like he's on speed or crack and he always swings at the first pitch. He's also got a similar Aura of Douchebag that A-Rod has.

 

I'm with the writer here. Personality is a legitimate part of why you support a team. In fact, very important.

Again, if their boss is a dick, you're quite justified to hate his team. This is why I have such a hard time with the IPL's Kolkata Knightriders, even though my favorite player got purchased by them.

Wha wha what?

Look, the players are obviously getting developed and scouted and they work hard. If someone else does the developing and they get PAID for it, then does that negate the hard work the individual players and their coaches put in before the Yankees showed up? A team is like a band man: If you can play, we'll put you on the stage, but we don't have to teach you how to string your guitar for the fans to respect us.

guarantee a win? no. But yeah, you damn well better believe we'll be angry with a player if they accept a huge slary and don't perform. Remember, I said arrogance is a good reason in my eyes to hate a player or team and if a player accepts all that money he better perform or he exposes himself as being more full of arrogance than talent.

OK, first of all, I recommend you to the Economics Forum where we've pretty much tackled this whole false idea that Wall street created the recession.

 

Second, I go along with the idea of hating a team if they have stupid and obnoxious fans. One of the reasons I tend never to back India in any cricket game.

 

But hating them because they have money? or because of where they work?

 

That's some serious class warrior baggage to carry into sports. Is the writer saying that what's wrong with America is that we don't hate the capitalists enough?

*Just to be clear, I never support the Yankees, no matter who they play. That's because I'm a 'root for the underdog' kinda guy (in sports I don't know well) and also because of the arrogance I get off them and their fans.

 

Thanks man. Yeah, their arrogance, dickery and douchebaggery, especially of their fans is a big reason why I hate them. Baseball needs a Salary Cap to even the playing field just like the NBA, NHL, and NFL (except this year for NFL) have to prevent the deepest pockets from winning the most World Series'.

[Benz]

A-Fraud show just how much intelligence he has by breaking the unwritten rule, "Don't cross over the pitcher's mound when you're running the bases." Shit, I remember that from hen I played little league. What a moronic douchebag.

 

A-Rod took shortcut across mound

 

ANAHEIM, Calif. -- Alex Rodriguez was just taking a shortcut, and he thinks he walked into a whole lot of unnecessary controversy.

 

Rodriguez was accused by Oakland pitcher Dallas Braden of breaking an unwritten rule of baseball etiquette Thursday. The slugger cut across the mound and stepped on the rubber as he returned to first base after a foul ball during the sixth inning of the Yankees' game at Oakland.

 

A day later, A-Rod still didn't see the big deal.

 

"I was tired," he said before the Yankees opened a three-game series at the Los Angeles Angels on Friday night. "It's really not that big of a deal. I've done that maybe a few dozen times. It's the shortest route. As I said yesterday, I thought it was pretty funny."

 

Braden didn't.

 

The A's starter shouted at Rodriguez after the inning ended, then continued his rant postgame, saying how disappointed he was in the slugger.

 

Braden tempered his comments Friday in Oakland.

 

"It started and ended as soon as it happened with me," he said. "It's a matter of respect. In no way, shape or form was it meant to call anyone out, or shed light on anybody's attitude or lack thereof; it's just all about one incident between himself and our squad."

 

There was no clear-cut decision on whether Rodriguez actually violated an unwritten rule of baseball.

 

Hall of Fame pitcher Don Sutton, now an Atlanta Braves announcer, took Braden's side Friday.

 

"No, you don't do it. It's like stealing a base when you're ahead by nine runs in the eighth inning," Sutton said in New York. "It's just common sense and common courtesy. If Bob Gibson or Don Drysdale had been on the mound, it would've been over in 15 seconds."

 

Braves right-hander Tim Hudson said it's not an unwritten rule, just something you know not to do.

 

"It'd be like going in the other team's dugout," he said. "You have to respect that it's the pitcher's place."

 

Yankees manager Joe Girardi, who studied engineering at Northwestern, said Rodriguez's jaunt made sense to him.

 

"I have no problem with what Alex did. I don't think Alex was doing anything malicious or trying to send a message. He just happened to run back to first base," Girardi said. "I mean, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line."

 

Of course you'd say that. You work for the douchebags now. Oh, Joe, how far ye've fallen.

 

This was not the first time someone said Rodriguez had broken an unwritten rule on the diamond.

 

In 2007, he shouted at Toronto third baseman Howie Clark while rounding the bag on a popup. Clark backed away, and the ball dropped. The play started a baseball debate about A-Rod's actions.

 

But Braden distanced himself from any other on-field controversy associated with the Yankees third baseman.

 

"Whatever other incidents there are or whoever they might concern is none of my business," Braden said Friday. "That's between him and whoever he may or may not have offended. This team is the team he disrespected. That's the team I'm sticking up for."

[gunsmithx]

yeah you know what, I've also heard from baseball players that they have no idea wtf this 'rule' is, you wanna bet if any random scrub had done it the guy wouldn't have said anything? The whole idea and the fight is pretty dumb.

 

just odd that alot of people never seem to have heard of know of this. like I said though it's pretty dumb all around, only got a news bite cause of arod.

[Benz]

yeah you know what, I've also heard from baseball players that they have no idea wtf this 'rule' is, you wanna bet if any random scrub had done it the guy wouldn't have said anything? The whole idea and the fight is pretty dumb.

 

just odd that alot of people never seem to have heard of know of this. like I said though it's pretty dumb all around, only got a news bite cause of arod.

 

Yeah, I agree. It wouldn't be as big a deal if it was some random un-heard of player. It got attention because of A-Rod's reputation of being childish and doing dumb stunts during the game (Slapping the first baseman's glove during the ALCS to make him drop the ball, yelling at an infielder to break his concentration when he was trying to catch a "Popup!" fly ball, starting a fight with the Red Sox pitcher by talking shit (Though I think Varitek, and then the officials handled that quite nicely). It's just another in the list of dumb things he's done, and not a very big one like the others.

[Benz]

Heh, gotta love the Onion...

 

True Yankees, Regular Yankees To Now Wear Different Uniforms

 

April 27, 2010 | ISSUE 46•16

NEW YORK—The New York Yankees unveiled a new, lesser uniform at a press conference Tuesday in an effort to distinguish ordinary, run-of-the-mill Yankees from the "true Yankee legends who walk among us." "To have Javier Vazquez don the same pinstripes as Mariano Rivera or Jorge Posada is…well, it's unthinkable," Yankees general manager Brian Cashman said as Curtis Granderson modeled the sterile, black-and-white uniform with a large, boxy, non-interlocking "NY" stitched across the front of the chest. "The untrue Yankees will wear a blank, unfitted ball cap until they have their big Yankee moment. They'll wear their last names on the backs of their lesser uniforms as a badge of shame." When asked which uniform he was assigned, Alex Rodriguez cried for 10 minutes.

[The NZA]

at the risk of being distasteful, i gotta admit: I'm curious how Benny feels about the passing of George Steinbrenner.

[Benz]

at the risk of being distasteful, i gotta admit: I'm curious how Benny feels about the passing of George Steinbrenner.

 

Yeah, heard about this... I read somewhere, I think on NESN, that he actually donated to the Jimmy Fund (A charity founded by the Red Sox, Ted Williams was a big spokesman for it.) He was good at what he did. too good. I hated Steinbrenner. I hate his legacy (Except the Jimmy Fund bit, that redeems him some). I hate all he stood for. I hope the Evil Empire crumbles and falls. But he had a heart it seems, below those pinstripes, and he was good at what he did. Rest In Peace, Steinbrenner.

 

I'm also not liking that the media is so in the tank for the Yankees lately. Yeah, Steinbrenner, I get it, it was big. But come on, I don't want to hear Joe Girardi whining about how the AL lost home advantage in the World Series. Those assholes haven't even made it there yet. There's still half the season left to play. God I want to hire Adam Vinatieri to punt his balls for a field goal.

 

Bill "Spaceman" Lee had this to say about Steinbrenner's death:

Video Here

 

The Red Sox hate the Yankees. That's a given.

 

But Bill "Spaceman" Lee really hates them -- specifically the late George Steinbrenner.

Before Boston was honoring Steinbrenner with a moment of silence before Thursday night's game, the Red Sox Hall of Famer was celebrating his passing, showing anything but remorse in an interview with New Hampshire's WMUR.

 

"I have no sadness," Lee said with a laugh. "If hell freezes over, he'll be skating."

 

Lee was famous for his outspoken manner and brash reputation during his playing days, and the southpaw didn’t hold back when asked about the former Yankees owner, who died Tuesday.

 

"Steinbrenner tried to have me banned from baseball," Lee explained. "He said I was incompetent and bad for the game. I’m not a convicted felon like George Steinbrenner. He’ll take that to his grave."

 

Lee spent 10 seasons in Boston and went 94-68 with a 3.64 ERA in 321 games (167 starts). He did some of his best work against the Yankees, going 12-5 with a 3.86 ERA in 38 games (21 starts), but he isn’t going to miss The Boss.

 

"As far as Steinbrenner's passing -- good," Lee summed up.

 

They don’t call him the Spaceman for nothing.

 

I'm somewhere between this and "Sorry for your loss, Yankees, but I still hope you lose and your Empire falls to nothing - the sooner the better."

[Benz]

Fuck the Yankees.

That is all.