Batman and/VS Wolverine

[IceManML]

He lost the fight w wendigo involved, dude.

What's wrong w mr fixit?

And wolvie fought the gray hulk head on.

 

 

Like I said you really need to read it.

 

The pt is tricking blabla really doesn't matter; this assistance thing really doesn't apply w the hulk. Batman tricks almost all his opponents w "insert gadget here". Why isn't he being knocked?

 

Plus batmans got a "team-rape", too. Why isn't that being factored then?

 

[Iambaytor]

Gray Hulk/Joe Fixit is the weakest form of The Hulk, The Thing has bested him on several occassions. And the tricking thing doesn't count because Batman is not a mindless berkserker running around breaking things, he's smart, the Hulk is not. The instances when the Hulk has been smart and strong, Wolverine lost.

 

Batman does have a time, but he's also taken a lot of heavy opponents solo. He's fought Ra's Al Ghul with no gadgets or plans. How many times has Wolverine stepped up to a smart enemy that wasn't weak as hell and without them tripping themselves up or somebody else joining the fight or juts plain luck actually beat them, by himself, claws or no claws. His anger is another factor, you're not gonna cause Batman to lose it and start making stupid mistakes, Wolverine has a temper and you can bet Batman would exploit that.

[IceManML]

Wolvie is a berserker when he has his wild moments or he AND his opponents get carried away in the fight. If you're looking for a fight where wolverine has lost there are few. And If so, big.

 

Wolverine outsmarts his opponents given his primal instincts and his bottomless pit of martial arts knowledge.

 

It sounds like you're comparing hulk and batman at first. You need to clarify what you mean by "going around breaking things". Sounds like you're describing the hulk. There are plenty times batman loses his temper ESPECIALLY when fighting.

 

That's the thing, these 2 guys are virtually the same character.

 

If wolverine ever got outsmarted is because he probably was in a one off or featured in another comic. Look up punisher vs wolverine.

 

Like I said, you need to read; those issues at least. 181 wolverine wasn't part of the xmen. He and hulk teamed to take down an immortal who eventually retreated.

And 340 that was an even fight. Wolverine almost lost that one. Hulk went beserk and was kickin his ass.

 

Ra's isn't big. He's another dude with minions just like the hand. Same thing.

[alive she cried]

Ye're all complicating this way more than necessary.

 

It is irrelevant who Batman or Wolverine have beaten before, because they have all beaten and lost to characters they shouldn't have.

Both characters have had a lot of terrible writers write their books, basically you have to discount all that bullshit and just look at their abilities.

 

Wolverine is faster, stronger, essentially immortal and doesn't have a code against killing, you're just lying to yourself if you think Batman even has a chance.

[Iambaytor]

Okay, well I read 340 which is Wolverine vs. Grey Hulk. I re-iterate: Grey Hulk is the weakest form of the Hulk. I'm working on the other issue now, but this does nothing to disprove my "Wolverine always gets a handicap when he fights the Hulk" statement.

 

And World War Hulk is nothing like Age of Apocalypse because it actually happened in the Marvel Universe, besides it wasn't in the big deus-ex main book either. Happened in Uncanny X-Men and the only bullshit that issue was how he took care of The Juggernaut.

 

I'm just going to state the name of the giant gorilla in the room. Metal skeleton meet electromagnet, or large bolt of electricity. Or Batman could just do what he did to Lord Death Man (a villain who literally cannot die), put him in a box he can't break out of and shoot him into space.

[IceManML]

Ok so then u throw the conversation back to square 1: gadgets vs experience. You can even make up a gadget and there's probably an instance of it in the 1000s of comics batman has. Wolves been electrocuted before. Big whoop. Has batman been sliced in half? How about surviving metal being ripped through your skin half way. We can do this forever dude.

 

Gray hulk, blue hulk magenta hulk: he's fought green and gray, all the same.

 

 

Ra's isn't really immortal btw... W.o the Laz pit that guys extremely killable. Same as apocalypse.

 

The equivalent analogies to these to chars are endless. Juggernaut::Bane, Ras::apocalypse, jubilee::new robin, nightwing::gambit... Just take your pick.

Edited May 2, 2012 by IceManML

[archangel]

 

Cap couldn't even take Logan in a fair fight. Logan would have beat his ass and he was holding back, something Rogers wasn't doing. Rogers had to fucking cheat to take Logan, and even then, all he did was dump him somewhere and run like a bitch.

 

Tony 1

Logan 1

Cap -2

 

 

Cap couldn't even take out Tony without cheating. What makes you think he can take Bruce? Bruce is a better fighter and a FAR better cheater.

 

That being said, I think Bruce could temporarily overwhelm Bruce for a few and get out of dodge....but in a fair fight? Bruce could never win. Logan's faster, stronger, more agile, indestructible and can find Bruce well before Bruce finds him.

Edited May 2, 2012 by archangel

[Iambaytor]

A

Ok so then u throw the conversation back to square 1: gadgets vs experience. You can even make up a gadget and there's probably an instance of it in the 1000s of comics batman has. Wolves been electrocuted before. Big whoop. Has batman been sliced in half? How about surviving metal being ripped through your skin half way. We can do this forever dude.

 

Gray hulk, blue hulk magenta hulk: he's fought green and gray, all the same.

 

 

Ra's isn't really immortal btw... W.o the Laz pit that guys extremely killable. Same as apocalypse.

 

The equivalent analogies to these to chars are endless. Juggernaut::Bane, Ras::apocalypse, jubilee::new robin, nightwing::gambit... Just take your pick.

 

But it's really not, fancy metal claws are only good if you can get close enough to use them. Wolverine also can't heal from not being able to breathe, Batman wouldn't kill him but he could knock him out and then put him in a low oxygen environment where he wouldn't have the strength to do anything. And a straight unending current through Wolverine would mean he can't move, that's a strategic advantage.

 

He has fought both the Grey and Green Hulks, but the only time he's actually won a fair fight has been against the gray one.

 

Also your analogies make no sense.

[IceManML]

Analogies are to the roles played in the comic. They make perfect sense batman universe vs wolvie. Anyway, like I said, you're going in circles with the gadget thing. If that's all you have to work on in this case, then it's writer vs writer.

That's kinda deviating if youre hashing out particular gadgets. Wolverines been through it all. So deprive him of air or sanity or good haircut he knows was to expect.

 

Wolverines claws are not just for show. He has 100 years more martial arts experience than Wayne man. Just get over it. It doesn't take much oxygen for either batman nor wolverine to remove themselves from being incapacitated. They're both Escape artists.

 

Seriously, next.

Edited May 2, 2012 by IceManML

[archangel]

oh, Gutters.....

 

[IceManML]

Yo Logan put a poll on this thing alrdy!

 

Sry meant axel... It's up to the one who started the thread rite?

Edited May 2, 2012 by IceManML

[Lycaon]

Didn't these used to go in the Fight Club?

[IceManML]

Well it's not really a vs thread lol someone eventually had to say it tho... It was inevitable @_@

[Keth]

There you go sir. This thread has evolved.

[Iambaytor]

The "It's writer vs. writer" argument is a crutch. Which is why I'm being VERY broad about this and referring to Wolverine routinely being a good but not great fighter, I could easily see Iron Fist or Black Panther besting him so it's not as much of a reach to see Batman doing the same. As for the gadgets, if this was Reed Richards or Tony Stark we were talking about I think people would look at this more evenly but since the guy in question punches people as his primary way of dealing with problems, suddenly it's an easy match.

 

And you're just going in circles with the "he's really old and has a healing factor and claws" argument. You're not going into the "why" that gives him an advantage, Batman's not going to shoot him so I don't see where the healing factor comes in other than healing bruises. He is old and experienced in several forms of made-up-bullshit fu but so is Batman and the thing with martial arts is you have to keep up with it to remain any good. Wolverine doesn't seem to practice his art very often and he loses his memory every 6 years, that's going to hurt things as well. There's also nothing special about his brain, it's in full working order but it's not particularly spectacular so it's just as likely he's going to just up and forget a lot of shit over the hundred or so years he's been alive.

 

And as for the claws, they're really not that spectacular of a weapon. Sure they can cut anything but adamantium but they're also only about a foot long and attached to his hands so if his hands are immobilized then his main weapon is gone. There's also a history with Batman that when he's dealing with an enemy that he knows he can't kill, he removes the kid gloves: no sticky gel and batarangs and shit, he uses explosives and other extremely lethal weapons.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Iambaytor

[The NZA]

The "It's writer vs. writer" argument is a crutch. Which is why I'm being VERY broad about this and referring to Wolverine routinely being a good but not great fighter, I could easily see Iron Fist or Black Panther besting him so it's not as much of a reach to see Batman doing the same.

 

there's also numerous stories where he berserker rages and takes out his respective team, too.

 

And you're just going in circles with the "he's really old and has a healing factor and claws" argument. You're not going into the "why" that gives him an advantage, Batman's not going to shoot him so I don't see where the healing factor comes in other than healing bruises. He is old and experienced in several forms of made-up-bullshit fu but so is Batman and the thing with martial arts is you have to keep up with it to remain any good. Wolverine doesn't seem to practice his art very often and he loses his memory every 6 years, that's going to hurt things as well. There's also nothing special about his brain, it's in full working order but it's not particularly spectacular so it's just as likely he's going to just up and forget a lot of shit over the hundred or so years he's been alive.

 

this part's silly - martial arts are not a classroom exercise you have to read up on to stay current; you have to stay fresh by simply using them.

on any given day, being a member of at least 3 super teams, he alternates taking out rooms of ninjas to switching up tactics against heavy hitters for the Avengers - and not like bats as the strategist for the JLA; wolverine's always always always on the front line. "he's really old" because he's been fighting - and more importantly, killing, something bats doesnt really know about - for almost 3x as a long as bats. if combat experience means noting to you, sure, okay.

 

and healing factor is pretty pivotal since Bruce doesn't kill, and so most of his trinkets are going to rely on incapacitating/restraining wolvy - the fact that logan is constantly healing generally makes this a failed tactic.

 

There's also a history with Batman that when he's dealing with an enemy that he knows he can't kill, he removes the kid gloves: no sticky gel and batarangs and shit, he uses explosives and other extremely lethal weapons.

 

oh man, it's a shame wolvy doesnt have multiple wars, countless supervillains and the like having tried that for again over a century know, he's not gonna know what to do when things blow up on him.

 

ps haha @ joel mad that tony got stomped out by cap "cause he cheated", yeah they shouldve had a "not in the face" rule or something

[archangel]

Tony: 'listen, Steve: this is going too far. I say we call a truce and talk this out. We can find a way to end this so people dont die.'

 

Steve: 'go on...I'm listening.' He says as he adjusts the emp device and has hawkette on stand by.

 

Tony: 'we can end this, today. You'd be the best person to help curtail this and still protect everyone. What do you say?'

 

 

Steve: ' I'm game. Let's shake on it. You can trust me...It's not as if I were a cheap knock off Joker impersonator or anything. I'm Captain america, man of my word, honorable.'

 

They shake hands, Tony is cheaply incapacitated and beaten down by Cap.

 

In a fair fight, Tony heated Steve within an inch of his life.

[The NZA]

you know who fights genius billionaire alcoholics with access to satellite lasers in a fair and honorable manner?

losers, and suckers. cap is neither of those.

[Iambaytor]

I know Wolverine knows all kinds of martial arts, but I've rarely seen him actually practice them. His solution is claws, always claws, and just because he can kill fuckloads of Ninjas doesn't mean he's that good at fighting. I'm pretty sure The Great Lakes Avengers could polish off half of The Hand without breaking a sweat.

 

And like I said, Batman isn't trying to kill Logan, he'd be trying to immobilize him. Tie his hands and his feet and there's not a whole fuck of a lot he can do about it. My earlier idea about cutting off his oxygen supply or keeping a constant stream of electricity running through his wonderfully conductible skeleton would both make him immobile and therefore not dangerous. He could also just pull a Tommy Monaghan and take out his eyes and keep fucking with his other senses and leading him around in a blind rage until he finds a suitable way to take care of him, like what he did to Lord Death Man. Just because he can theoretically live forever doesn't mean Batman's going to be constantly on the run for the rest of his life waiting for that moment when Wolverine strikes back. All he has to do is throw him in a deep hole he can't climb or dig out of and he's won.

 

And I'm gonna throw the bad writing argument back in your face on the "wars and stuff" argument. It's a pretty well known fact that comic book villains (even the best ones) are comically incompetent. I have a feeling if Wolverine had ever caught a mortar round to the face or an rpg to the gut that really would've taken the wind out of his sails. Marvel Knights Punisher may have portrayed him as a joke but I think that shotgun blast to the face he took was a pretty realistic rendering of what would actually happen (of course, the exception would be he also wouldn't have eyes.)

[The NZA]

i think i've mentioned this, but because i apparently hated part of my youth, ive read the entire vol 1 (most of vol 2) of wolverine, which is like a dozen good issues amongst 300+. the things you're saying have been done, from tying him up & tickling his feets to burying him deep underground.

 

depending on his state, he's regrown shit almost as fast as he's lost it. but even if your argument didn't rely on a giant game of mouse trap, bruce is still boned because logan's about the marvel U's best tracker, so all of this really feels like delaying the inevitable: he's going to get through to wayne and bats will not have any real defenses unless we're calling in JLA assists.

 

also, where there's been dumb writing galore, there's also been the smarter writing that again eras of combat experience should yield, from logan gaining higher ground & masking himself to tony's sensors to dealing with your very conductivity issue with electric-based attacks. about the only thing he's left defenseless against is Magneto, so sure, if wayne can afford an imaginary magnet with nearly that level of power, he's bought his way into a form of a win.

[IceManML]

I know Wolverine knows all kinds of martial arts, but I've rarely seen him actually practice them. His solution is claws, always claws, and just because he can kill fuckloads of Ninjas doesn't mean he's that good at fighting. I'm pretty sure The Great Lakes Avengers could polish off half of The Hand without breaking a sweat.

 

And like I said, Batman isn't trying to kill Logan, he'd be trying to immobilize him. Tie his hands and his feet and there's not a whole fuck of a lot he can do about it. My earlier idea about cutting off his oxygen supply or keeping a constant stream of electricity running through his wonderfully conductible skeleton would both make him immobile and therefore not dangerous. He could also just pull a Tommy Monaghan and take out his eyes and keep fucking with his other senses and leading him around in a blind rage until he finds a suitable way to take care of him, like what he did to Lord Death Man. Just because he can theoretically live forever doesn't mean Batman's going to be constantly on the run for the rest of his life waiting for that moment when Wolverine strikes back. All he has to do is throw him in a deep hole he can't climb or dig out of and he's won.

 

And I'm gonna throw the bad writing argument back in your face on the "wars and stuff" argument. It's a pretty well known fact that comic book villains (even the best ones) are comically incompetent. I have a feeling if Wolverine had ever caught a mortar round to the face or an rpg to the gut that really would've taken the wind out of his sails. Marvel Knights Punisher may have portrayed him as a joke but I think that shotgun blast to the face he took was a pretty realistic rendering of what would actually happen (of course, the exception would be he also wouldn't have eyes.)

 

I actually agree with all of these pts.

 

The martial arts thing again has to do with what ppl want to see. people wana see. I know wolvie knows how to kick your arse and perfectly carve a turkey in time for passover at the same time, but I loved to see this guy comeback from utter annihilation n bloody his victims.

 

Kinda like frank millers dark knight...

 

First time I read it in my 4th grade math class I skipped to the superman fight cuz that shit was "bloody" awesome. fookin epic. pun intended.

 

Edited May 3, 2012 by IceManML

[Iambaytor]

i think i've mentioned this, but because i apparently hated part of my youth, ive read the entire vol 1 (most of vol 2) of wolverine, which is like a dozen good issues amongst 300+. the things you're saying have been done, from tying him up & tickling his feets to burying him deep underground.

 

Yeah and I bet just like in Batman comics the guy who did it either didn't tie him up tight enough or left incompetent guards to watching him or went to get the charts and graphs that explain the minute details of his master plan as well as list all his greatest fears and how best to exploit them. This fight would not have a Deus-ex to help him escape, if we're not allowing negative deus-exes (like all the times Wolverine went down like a bitch, and they are numerous) then we're not allowing the positive ones either.

[IceManML]

no man. That didnt happen. at least from what Ive read. Wolverine would just free him self in front of the guy for the awesome factor. The only one I can think of that actually did the "explain your plans thing was nimrod and mojo. Who all had ridiculous dragonball z -esque reasons why they "couldnt" just off wolvie immediately.

Edited May 3, 2012 by IceManML

[Mr. Hakujin]

No way Batman wins in a fist/claw "fight" w/ Wolverine. As Baytor pointed out, Bats would concoct a way to immobilize or possibly kill Wolvie. Logan's weakness has always been that lump of Play-Doh called his brain. Damn thing has been remolded so many times by so many different people I'm surprised Logan even knows how to tie a shoe. Then again, those boots on his uniform don't have laces...

 

Anyway, Bats would likely unleash some psychological warfare on him long enought o incapacitate Wolverine before he carved a fatal chunk outta Batman. And adamantium has to have some form of weakness, and if anyone is gonna discover it you know it'll be the Goddamn Batman. Baytor's idea of continually running electric current could work. Also, if you just went in through his eye sockets and cleaned out every single bit of brain matter, wouldn't that do Wolverine in for good? Or does any of Logan's cells regenerate every form of cell? That is to say, he can't regenerate a brain from his liver--right?

[Thelogan]

Bah. He'd just hit him with a glue grenade or some silly shit.