DC rebooting (some of) its universe

[Maldron]

I like Justice League #1. I think that's a story worth exploring. The rest of it, in its not tying into that good story worth exploring, makes me hesitant. The reboot is terribly unfocused, and the longer the people in the future get to operate without being informed by the new past, and the longer the reboot chooses to simply borrow from established continuity, the less it's going to mean.

[Thelogan]

Lemme make sure I took that properly: you liked the one book you took a chance on and read, but if the others aren't part of that story you don't want to take a chance on them?

 

Also, why are you people reading Justice League and not Animal Man? This is why we can't have nice things.

[The NZA]

times ive read Animal Man without Grant's name on the cover: 0

 

why ruin a perfect record, logans

[Thelogan]

Same here, but the new guy does a good impersonation.

[Maldron]

Lemme make sure I took that properly: you liked the one book you took a chance on and read, but if the others aren't part of that story you don't want to take a chance on them?

 

Also, why are you people reading Justice League and not Animal Man? This is why we can't have nice things.

 

I liked Swamp Thing and Animal Man independently, but their link is loose, and Swamp Thing's only sin is borrowing from Death of Superman, which was done for a good purpose so I was all for it.

 

But no, I'm saying I read Justice League, and that was a good reboot. Everybody starting out, everybody meeting each other, personalities different enough and similar enough to make it engaging. But to have that, and then have the future where everybody's basically the same takes away from the reboot. Detective comics basically was "we're making a different Joker," at least Action comics was about new Superman, but then when we see regular superman in Swamp Thing I'm like "oh, these changes already don't mean shit."

 

I'll follow the stuff I've liked sofar, but I'm not going to be excited about the reboot as a whole and I'm not sure it'll generate enough interest with the way they're executing it. I can only hope that it lasts long enough to finish the arcs I like.

[Thelogan]

Oh, ok. You read some other stuff. Nevermind then, I misunderstood.

 

All the way through detective I was thinking is was a pretty generic story, probably told only subtly differently half a dozen times. I was completely disinterested all the way up to the last page, then it piqued my interest. I'm going to give it another issue.

 

I think Batgirl is out. Pretty cliche stuff.

 

Oh yeah, Stormwatch. No one's mentioned that I think. I'm interested in that one, reminded me of Planetary.

[Maldron]

Yeah, I read a lot of it, it's just that JL#1 sucked me in pretty heavily, and it was the first thing I read, and then I read a bunch of other comics that borrowed heavily from established continuity or spoke to continuity i knew nothing about. I don't know OMAC, can't say how much it's changed. Can say i was confused and bored, though.

[Thelogan]

I can agree with that. I haven't read OMAC, however.

 

Top 5(what I've read), in order:

 

Animal Man

JL

Action Comics

Swamp Thing

Stormwatch

 

 

What? No Batman? Batwing was (strangely) the best of the bunch so far, and it could end up really good, but I didn't like it as much as I did the above.

[Maldron]

Africa has needed a Batman. This is just plain common sense.

 

I mean... I don't know, so I don't know, but is there ANY reason at all you can see sofar that Swamp Thing couldn't take place in main DC continuity?

[Thelogan]

I mean... I don't know, so I don't know, but is there ANY reason at all you can see sofar that Swamp Thing couldn't take place in main DC continuity?

 

Not only that, but it seems like it doesn't make sense anywhere else. I was waiting for them to give me a rundown on his new origin or for construction-worker Holland to get hit with an alien plant grenade or something. I had no idea how half assed this thing was until Bish enlightened me.

[Mr. Hakujin]

Clearly a child who was raised well . . .

 

[Jables]

 

TL;DR not that anecdotal stuff or the insane people @ newsarama should be taken as a whole, but for years ive understood DC to be more "solid" and marvel to be the one that changes/shakes this up as it goes, DC fans always struck me as having more a comfort zone in their universe

 

because they're not gonna do crazy shit like just insert a kid right under one of their most famous characters outta nowhere like got and OH GOD WAIT

 

 

Even if the basic motivations or premises don't change, blinking and discovering that Superman is now Lex Luthor from Earth -3 or someshit after an incredibly uninteresting 'event' which was really just escalating piles of shit hitting fans that weren't made relevant before rightfuckingnow is somewhat disconcerting. And re spoilers- that was the result of a seed planted(in every way) years ago. You never read Death & the Maidens or w/e it was called?

 

On this DC relaunch, without being bothered reading the books I'ma go ahead and call it a lazier relaunch than Chapter One if they're still talking about the shit they were supposed to leave behind. Stormwatch is a book I liked to keep up with though, so I might check it out.

[bishopcruz]

Now granted that this could have been handled better, but still wondering why everyone was expecting a complete across the board restart. Hell the title of the thread says (some of). It is essentially crisis 3.0.

 

Now is everyone saying they would have preferrered a complete restart, 52 origin books and go forward there? I kinda prefer in medias res myself.

 

On another note I have no idea what Jay is talking about

[Maldron]

I would've preferred cohesion. JL's 5 years ago IS a full from the start reboot, but everything "rights itself" in the future. Which is still frustrating.

[Jables]

Now granted that this could have been handled better, but still wondering why everyone was expecting a complete across the board restart. Hell the title of the thread says (some of). It is essentially crisis 3.0.

 

Now is everyone saying they would have preferrered a complete restart, 52 origin books and go forward there? I kinda prefer in medias res myself.

 

On another note I have no idea what Jay is talking about

 

I'm just saying for a company that prides itself on fucking with the status quo so implausibly and frequently, this was a lazy stunt. As you've explained: Crisis 3 without the event. I mean WTF. Not gonna argue with the result, folks who forgot about chronium covers are picking up all 52 #1's and possibly more, which is probably a lot more books than DC'd move otherwise, and they're not going to be worth shit.

[bishopcruz]

I would've preferred cohesion. JL's 5 years ago IS a full from the start reboot, but everything "rights itself" in the future. Which is still frustrating.

 

Well, if by rights itself you mean that Superman, Wonder Woman's, and everyone who isn't Bat-Family or GL's status quo is pretty much different, so not quite sure what you mean. The universe as is is in medias res, JL is five years back, Action is about half a year before that, they are the origin stories of the verse. Then big stuff has happened, but its now 5 years later. Hard to say whether it will be cohesive or not (I think it will overall, though there will be some really odd bits of continuity running around.) off of one month. So far nothing seems to stand out as not fitting in to the new DCU, at least with any of the stuff I have read.

 

I'm just saying for a company that prides itself on fucking with the status quo so implausibly and frequently, this was a lazy stunt. As you've explained: Crisis 3 without the event. I mean WTF. Not gonna argue with the result, folks who forgot about chronium covers are picking up all 52 #1's and possibly more, which is probably a lot more books than DC'd move otherwise, and they're not going to be worth shit.

 

Agreed on Flashpoint being the absolute worst way to bring this about. CoIE was planned for YEARS, this was planned for months. On the bright side, it does seem that DC is very committed to variety with the relaunch. Very few people like everything, but what has surprised me is that just about every book has people who loved it. Some people call Animal Man the book of the week, others call Action Comics the book, hell I have just seen a few places raving about OMAC being their favorite of the new books because it is old school Kirby fun. If this continues then it could work out for them, If there are 52 books, and they each have a unique feel, or if most of them do even I think good things could be coming.

[The NZA]

Comics Alliance reviews Week 2 of DC's "The New 52"

FINAL SCORES, Highest to Lowest:

Batwoman: 8.4

Frankenstein, Agent of S.H.A.D.E.: 7.75

Demon Knights: 6.75

Batman and Robin: 6.25

Superboy: 5.75

Green Lantern: 5.25

Mister Terrific: 5

Deathstroke: 4.9

Grifter: 4

Red Lanterns: 2.75

Resurrection Man: 3.25

Legion Lost: 1.75

Suicide Squad: 0.5

 

so: fair or no?

[Thelogan]

I give a lot of these a pretty big pass for being 1st issues. Unlike a lot of people, I guess, I have a hard time judging a story on the first 20 pages, unless it's a clear "That's AWESOME" or "That's SHIT", if it falls somewhere in the middle, I need more. Pretty much every DC 52 book I've read falls pretty squarely in the middle.

 

I liked Batman & Robin fine. It's rather bluntly written (this guy's no Morrison (who also occasionally writes pretty clunky)), but it at least had something to say and there's some good characterization.

 

Demon knight was pretty cool. It's a bit cluttered and ambitious, it tries to introduce you to half a dozen characters (all representing cliche fantasy archetypes, for the most part) and give them some conflict all in the span of it's single issue. At least that's out of the way...

I can see it being good, possibly. It certainly had a few moments that made me smirk, and that's really all I can as for most of the time.

Every time I read a speech bubble from Etrigan I start it like I was reading Dr. Suess, and then my brain panics a little if it doesn't rhyme. I had to break myself of this. Etrigan does not rhyme in this book. I guess it's as good a time as any to break that cycle if you're going to do it. Pretty much everyone except Moore did it half-assed anyway. Moore put some thought into that shit, some of it was downright Shakespearian. Yet another way he makes other writers look inferior.

 

Legion Lost I could not even muster a single fuck about. It's downright sloppy.

 

Red Lanterns...Dex-Starr. 'Nuff said.

I got the distinct impression that Peter Milligan is kind of trolling DC with this one. I'm not sure they're in on the joke. It's silly as fuck, it could end up pretty cool.

 

Suicide Squad. It aint deep. It's a hatchet job where the writer tries to introduce each character briefly and move along, it's a first issue. I cut it some slack. Some characters are clearly introduced in order to be disposable. Expect like 2 or 3 main characters and a rotating roster.

The one thing that's completely unacceptable is Amanda Waller. They fucked up big with that one.

I still don't thin it deserves such a low rating. It's definitely better than Legion Lost.

 

And that's all I've read.

[bishopcruz]

Dunno how fair the reviews are honestly. Comics Alliance has been pretty down on the reboot overall it seems, but I think what was most interesting about the reviews is the fact that they tended towards extremes. A lot of the titles in the middle had like 2 high ratings and 2 low ratings, like half would give it an 8 or 9 and the other have a 3 or 4. Suicide Squad was dumb, I think I might give it another issue because it was mainly setup (though what they did to Savant PISSED me off.) Superboy was pretty damned good and Demon Knights was fun as all shit. It was odd not seeing Etrigan rhyme, but apparently he didn't always used to, Moore started that up during Swamp Thing apparently.

 

Batwoman was a quality book, story is interesting, and I love the character, that and JH Williams might be the best artist working at the big 2 right now. Damn, the book looks amazing. Deathstroke was complete 90's schlock, in a good way, curious to see where it will be going. GL was cool, but not enough to get me back into it, it was better than it has been in a while though. Mr. Terrific was pretty boring.

 

Batman and Robin was a little weird. I like Tomasi a lot so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that Damien is even more of a little shit than usual because its a first issue and he's reintroducing the character.

 

But again, it seems that this second week of books was pretty much as varied as the first week. Some people loved books that others hated and vice versa. My favorites were Demon Knights (D&D with Superheroes? Yes please!), Batwoman, B&R, and Superboy. Tomorrow is gonna be the big day for me though, Azzarello on Wonder Woman, Snyder's Batman, Higgins on Nightwing are three that I have been looking forward to since this was announced. I MIGHT check out Red Hood and Catwoman, but I'm not sure yet.

[Maldron]

Welp, at least now I know why Swamp Thing can't be in main continuity.

[Iambaytor]

Swamp Thing started out in main continuity just like Animal Man, well into halfway through Alan Moore's series was in regular continuity.

[bishopcruz]

What do you mean? Demon Knights takes place in the dark ages. Etrigan wouldn't get his promotion until later, during the original Swamp Thing run, which did still happen, Swamp Thing is in main continuity.

Edited September 21, 2011 by bishopcruz

[Iambaytor]

I'm saying all this "Swamp Thing is for Vertigo only!" talk is silly shit since most of his beloved Vertigo arc still took place in regular DC continuity.

[bishopcruz]

Ok picked up Batman, Wonder Woman, and Nightwing. All three were pretty fucking good.

 

Snyder's Batman continues his run of complete awesome at Dc and Vertigo, I've said it before but this guy is THE up and comer to watch, he gets Bruce, as well as the rest of the Bat family and it shows. The book is meaty the art is great, ans the mystery is kickass. Very good start to the series.

Wonder Woman was dark as fuck, but it does a great job of bringing in the Greek gods as some seriously scary beings. also the art was great.

 

Nightwing continues with the amazing art, and it very much gets Dick as a character.

 

So yeah, VERY happy with these three.

 

Now time for Red Hood. Pleasw don't suck.

 

Reason for edit: posting from a phone is a pita.

Edited September 21, 2011 by bishopcruz

[Thelogan]

Soooo, Starfire is now a total whore with no comprehension of human moral decency. Or "soulless fuck doll" as I read it described somewhere else.

 

How do we feel about that? A bit of a step backwards, no?

 

Speaking of that book, I'm a little hazy in how Jason Todd fits into this whole thing. He's clearly the post-crisis "gritty" version that everyone despised enough to murder, but Batman has clearly been at this "Find Young Boys That Look Like Me and Dress Them Up In Tights" game for longer than 6 years.

 

I dunno. I stopped trying to make sense of it all.