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Over on Facebook I had some praise for CM Punk's work in WWE. Nick/NZA responded and we had a conversation

  • Imam Baksh - I've been a wrestling fan for 8 years now. It's better today than at any time in those eight years. New wrestlers have come in over the last few years with excellent ability and personality and things feel fresh and the in-ring action is top-notch. Rent the DVD of the 2011 Money in the Bank PPV if you want an intro to the current state of WWE.

  • Nicholas Custer - this is literally the first positive thing ive heard lately, everyone ive asked has said they're trying to fill in for the gap left by the attitude era of the late 90s/early 2000s

  • Imam Baksh - The last 3 years have seen the emergence of a new wave of young talent. HHH took over talent development and went on a recruiting/development crusade. The previous head of talent development (generally held to be incompetent) got demoted 3 years back and eventually fired this year.
     
    Search youtube for anything with Damien Sandow, Daniel Bryan or Wade Barret. And of course, CM Punk.

  • Eamonn Byrne - Nicholas is right. Wrestling has been pretty poor since the Invasion angle of 2001. You're talking out of your arse Jumb.

  • Imam Baksh - The poor period ended 2 years ago for me, about the time CM Punk did his suicide-dive Messiah bit and Daniel Bryan became US Champ.
     
    And I never said it's back to 2001 standards. I'm saying the right guys are here now to restart that level of fun and entertainment at WWE and they've been building that up over the last few years since the changes started. It's no different from say a sports team building up after getting a new coach: They usually have a few seasons of enjoyable play before they actually win a championship.
     
    I'd compare present day WWE to 95-97 WWE where they were on the tail end of a poor run after losing the 80's stars, but Austin, Mick Foley, the Undertaker and Vince McMahon the character were establishing themselves in the company with good work night after night.
     
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Anyone here watch WWE? Are you an old fan who's sticking with it? A totally new fan like me who got into it recently after the glory years were all done? A fan from the 80s/90s who can't stand what these young kids are up to these days and doesn't watch anymore?

Edited by Jumbie
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I used to watch religiously when I was little back during The Rock/Stone Cold days and into the early days of John Cena.

 

Then I grew up

 

and concentrated more on video games.

 

Which, by the way are the shit. The WWE games I mean. I could probably pop one of those in today and still have a good time. Meaning 3 hours in the character creator, and 30 minutes beating the shit out of people.

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if i had cable, id prolly put it on and see how it was going. Jumbie posted some links of CM and it seemed about part for the course - im assuming we're well past Mcmahon (sp?) and his shenanigans?

 

i can't believe the Undertake is still wrestling. i think he's still wrestling.

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Used to watch. Stopped watching sometime during Cena's reign.

 

Well, regretfully, he's had ten of them now, so that's vague.

 

Actually, to be fair, Cena had to carry the company at a time when it was gutted of talent and he kept the fanbase of kids in it, so I can't be too harsh on him and his un-intense intensity.

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if i had cable, id prolly put it on and see how it was going. Jumbie posted some links of CM and it seemed about part for the course - im assuming we're well past Mcmahon (sp?) and his shenanigans?

 

i can't believe the Undertake is still wrestling. i think he's still wrestling.

 

Understaker is pretty badly banged up from mileage. He's pretty much only wrestled Wrestlemania in the last few years. And it's working because the last 4 matches were instant classics with Shawn Michaels and HHH that had the kind of gravitas Cena and the 00s generation never could bring to their matches.

 

And his Streak is a big deal. He's never been beat at Wrestlemania so it's always a major part of the show. Everyone over 12 KNOWS the Undertaker won't lose, but WWE put a lot of work every year into making you forget that by the end of the fight.

 

McMahon was up to shenanigans up to 2011. He's a big part of why Cena vs CM Punk at Money in the Bank 2011 and the lead up was so good. But then he retired from on-camera work via a 'fired by the board of directors' storyline. Sadly, record poor ratings for Monday Night Raw since Football season started have lead to him returning last week as a bit of stunt casting to get the TV numbers up.

 

The TV ratings for everything are on decline and it's a losing battle, with DVRs and 1000s of other entertainment choices, so it's a losing battle I think. They seem to recognise this and are using the internet to release some of their shows now.

Edited by Jumbie
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They lost a couple good young guys to MMA, Brock Lesnar and Lashley. I suspect there's a lot more guys who never even went to Wrestling school because they chose MMA from the start.

 

But it wasn't the older guys leaving for MMA. Rock left to do movies. Austin got injured. Shawn Michaels got injured and had to take a few years off, Kurt Angle got caught up in drugs and quit the company, Flair got old and retired, Hogan drifted off, Mick Foley got interested in stand up comedy and writing books and I suppose got old too. Goldberg quit for unstated reasons. Chyna quit because her ex, HHH, married the bosses daughter and they coudn't get along. Chris Benoit went insane and murderd his family, Kevin Nash/Diesel got busted knees and couldn't hack it. Sting refused to work for Vince McMahon after WCW folded. Brett Hart had a stroke.

 

 

Anyone else I'm missing from folks you remember?

 

Kane, Undertaker, HHH, Chris Jericho, Mysterio, Big Show and a few others have stayed on til now. But they weren't able to do it alone. They never got young guys coming up who could hold up their end. The two big talents to come through were Cena and Randy Orton and they've got limited appeal to old-school wrestling fans because they seem like posers who don't do much in the ring. Guy named Edge also broke kinda big near the mid-late 00s and he was actually really really good, but he had to quit a couple years back after chronic neck problems.

 

But 3 stars in 10 years is not nearly enough to sustain a whole programme.

 

Which is why I feel like something real is happening these days. They don't have 3 rising stars. They have 10. All guys who can 'go' in the ring and can create drama in the buildups and 'promo' segments.

 

I mentioned some of them before, but I should add Dolph Ziggler to that list. He kinda had to develop into something special from a ordinary start, but he worked hard at it and is now showing the results of that in effective performances.

 

The crux of it is that these new guys are fun to watch, fun to listen to.

 

But I don't think there's a Rock, Austin, Hogan or Andre among them, someone with crossover appeal to make wrestling mainstream. I'm just talking about fun wrestling at this point. WHo knows maybe Ziggler's development signals that some of the others can make it up there too. After all, Rock's first run as Rocky Maiavia was a disaster (he even got zinged in ICP's 'Fuck the World') He had to leave and repackage himself.

 

BTW, Hugh Jackman did a guest spot on Raw two years back where he interfered in a Dolph Ziggler match. If you ever track that down on youtube or anything, it's fun, you should watch it.

----------------------------------------

 

Also, here's the opening from Last week's Raw when Vince showed up and had a confrontation with the now-villainous CM Punk:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWdy2YqnJvs

 

Don't know how long that'll stay up though because youtube tends to take that kinda thing down at random.

Edited by Jumbie
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haha, that was fun. he's a fantastic heel.

 

nah i think you covered most of them - we know what became of macho man ( :rip: ), and the less i saw of one night in chyna/hogan's pythons etc the better. too many of the names that come to mind are so old they were in the 80s cartoon - does Rowdy Roddy Piper ever stop off anymore? also that movie Rock's doing with marky mark right now, the dude is huge. think he'll stop off again between filming stuff maybe?

 

 

IT DOESNT MATTER IF YOU THINK HES COMIN BACK OR NOT

 

 

mcmahon mentioned luchadores, do they do any of that? man i love that shit. anyway ive been watching your links here & FB, post more on the other new guys you named when you can.

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There are 4 former luchadores int he WWE right now. They all do luchadore like things from time to time but they tend to tone it down for WWE standards.

 

One is Rey Mysterio who's old enough to have slowed down, but I still dig him, even though many older fans find him boring now.

 

THe latest is actually the biggest luchadore of recent Mexican history who HHH recruited two year back. He's had a rough time accilmating to the style and got two major injuries. Plus he's reputed to be a prima donna backstage and that's holding up his progress. He goes by the name Sin Cara, No face, but in Mexico he had another name.

 

Another of the good new heels is an ex luhcadore who goes unmasked and just acts like a regular american style power wrestler for the most part but pulls out some highflying moves from time to time. He's got charisma and plays an arrogant aristiocrat typw with a freaky sidekick. funnily enough, in his luchadore days he was Dos Caras, Two Faces.

 

The 4th ex luchodore is only a bit player, rarely on tv, but he's notable because he filled in under the Sin Cara mask wen Sin Cara was hurt for 3 months and in many fans eyes, did a better job of it than the real Sin Cara.

 

Rock wrestled at the last Wrestlemania and beat Cena He also wrestled a tag match at last years Survivor Series.. He's sheduled to wrestle at the next Royal Rumble for the WWE championship and also the next Wrestlmania. Most people are expecting Rock/Cena II at the next wrestlemania.

 

I actually read an article about this. Seems Rock's agents had moved him away from wrestling in 2003 to establish him as an actor in his own right and he got tired of their bullshit eventually, fired them, and the first thing he told his new agent was to get him back into wrestling part time. That's also when he got into Fast and Furious and GI Joe and the other hits he's had recently. So he made his grand return as HOST of wrestlemania in 2010 and got into a fight with Cena leading to their 2011 match with a whole year of build up. Thanks to Rock, the last Wrestlemania was the most watched ever after a few years of decline.

 

OH yeah, Piper shows up 3 or 4 times a year.

Edited by Jumbie
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ultimatewarrior.gif

 

Fookin rite.

 

I started watching after I went to rasslemania here in Phoenix.. N wouldn't you know it.. My uncles wife is hardcore into it. Tho she doesn't watch anything else besides Jerry springer n Maury.

 

So for the past couple years I dvred this stuff n I can't seem to understand why the writing is so terrible. I won't get into it but the only thing I won't fast forward thru really now is when Kane n Daniel Brian have a match.

 

N all the twitter pumpin gawd!

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Botched spot is awesome. For those who didn't get the joke, WWE has been DOWNPLAYING the attitude era lately because Linda McMahon is running for Senate BUT they simulataeously announced plans for an Attitude Era DVD.

 

Monday Night. Time for Raw.

 

Incidentally, Mick Foley shows up on tv once in a while, most recently 2 weeks ago for an excellent confrontation with CM Punk.

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Jumbie,

 

As Panch and Ice have indicated, the MOST IMPORTANT THING you have missed is back in the WWF. Ultimate Warrior:

 

 

That's a pretty good brief summary.

 

BEST. WRESTLER. EVER.

 

I haven't watched much since after Mankind.

 

I've been to WWF/WWE twice. Once when I was like 9, at the USF Sun Dome in Tampa (My mom put War Paint on my face because ... What Ultimate Warrior said in above video.

 

2nd time, and I was already losing interest, but went with Manny Rosa back when he was RLC of Panther Hall.

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Dolph Ziggler, one of the new guys I mentioned, has a reputation for taking sick (looking) bumps. i.e. He looks like he gets killed taking the move. Here's a typical 'Ziggler just killed himself' moment, from last night's Raw:

 

Dolph_Bumpler.gif

 

Thing is, he's NEVER really hurt from these. It's all his skill in making it look good, requiring split second timing and balls of steel. For those who are aware that wrestling is fake, it adds back that extra visceral element because you think, 'no way that was intentional, OMG, he's hurt.'

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