Star Wars, Episode 8: The Last Jedi

[Iambaytor]

See, and it's that really shitty undercurrent that earned you that downvote.  There is no blatant political pandering, there is no agenda.  They wrote characters who were women, they cast actors who weren't white and the controversy sprung up from there.  So no, it apparently wasn't big enough for everyone.  And this "THE SJWS ARE RUININ MY STAR WARS" is an undercurrent to nearly every post you've made in this thread.  Maybe reflect on your own thoughts and see what "keepin' it real" is manifesting as.

[Little Nemo McFly]

2 minutes ago, Iambaytor said:

There is no blatant political pandering, there is no agenda.

 

Incorrect.

 

No worries, tho - you don't hafta agree.  Oh, dude - I assure you - I can handle your downvotes - LOL - I'm just glad it's my opinion you don't like - and you're not actually offended by anything I've said.  (I do try to be respectful)

 

12 minutes ago, Iambaytor said:

...and this "THE SJWS ARE RUININ MY STAR WARS" is an undercurrent to nearly every post you've made in this thread.

 

Eh - also, incorrect.  Like...very - to the point of reaching.

 

It's the adlib-approach to the Sequel Trilogy that's ruining my Star Wars.  SJWs are ruining everything else - LOL ;)

 

13 minutes ago, Iambaytor said:

They wrote characters who were women, they cast actors who weren't white and the controversy sprung up from there.  So no, it apparently wasn't big enough for everyone.

 

Dude, nutjobs have a problem w/ women or people of color being cast.  LOL - there's no controversy about that.  The franchise has never been bias - it is big enough for any race, gender to star in.  ALWAYS HAS.

 

It's the same fucking shit as the Ghostbusters Reboot PR machine: "There have never been any strong female characters in movies - and it's about tiiime (followed by bobble-head applause)."  C'mooon.  And when people don't like the content - enter controversy:  "Men can't handle strong females..."

 

Hollywood says what it has to - to sell their garbage.  Truth.  It's sad how they whore people's race and gender to sell movie tickets.  It's lazy.

 

Tell me how in the fuck Captain Phasma was an empowering character?  Rey is an empty plastic action figure...could've been a man!  I would like more from my characters than: 'represents PR move'.

 

Being female, latino, korean, homosexual doesn't automatically make you an interesting, relatable character.  It's so shallow, it's creepy.  Solid, interesting personalities / conflicts / developments are what make great characters / solid, interesting stories are what make good movies - not the 'representation check-list'.  Hollywood seems to think - that's enough...and it makes my soul sad.

 

1 hour ago, Iambaytor said:

Maybe reflect on your own thoughts and see what "keepin' it real" is manifesting as.

 

"What?  Wh-what are you all mumblin' about?"

[The NZA]

star wars is, quite literally, borne of george lucas ripping off a superior director (akira kurosawa) living through/encapuslating post WW II japan in film.  this is documented; however much you'd like to escape into pop-culture love, the sith are very obviously fascist analogs.  to pretend there's no politics in your amalgam of eastern though riddled with buddism and post-war ideology is to cover your ears & miss what's going on, simple as.  

 

but seeing more representation - casting any non-white dude in a role of choice - as a gimmick (as you seem to see, with your korean/"homosexual" etc take) kinda speaks to the same problem you ran into with apu as problematic in that thread: you're speaking from your own experience, and dismissing any cultural critiques from minority groups as whining/political/etc as though these things happen in a vacuum.  they don't.  

 

sith are space nazis. this was supposed to be obvious.  taking it a notch further down the road & empowering minority actors/actresses was the next logical step, but you have to be open to that, is the thing.  

 

Quote

 

Tell me how in the fuck Captain Phasma was an empowering character?  Rey is an empty plastic action figure...could've been a man!  I would like more from my characters than: 'represents PR move'.

 

 

how the fuck was boba fett an empowering character?  he's gonna get a solo flick in the next few years, and his greatest scene in the OG trilogy was flying into his death - but the fanbase moved around his strand of wookie hair and baker's dozen lines and made him an icon.  let's not pretend rey hasn't already provided far more character than that - nevermind little girls being shown there's a role for them in sci-fi beyond damsel in distress tropes.  

 

TL;DR

 

[Iambaytor]

Also, all these characters are very well sketched out characters.  The concept that Rey doesn't have any flaws or character traits because she's self-sufficient and good at stuff is fucking silly and totally wouldn't be a thing if the character was a man.

 

The diverse casting is not some in your face attempt to put forth a statement as it is a "why not" approach, the same as The Ghostbusters.  It has no effect on the overall quality of the films and it's a stupid shitty thing to say that any shortcoming you percieve is a result of some politically correct agenda.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Iambaytor

[Iambaytor]

 

[Little Nemo McFly]

11 hours ago, The NZA said:

you're speaking from your own experience...

 

Yep.  Pretty much.

 

My disdain for identity / gender politics - pandering - and people speaking on behalf of entire races / genders comes from a real place.

 

I don't subscribe to any philosophy - my convictions comes from my own experiences.  (shrugs)

 

 

12 hours ago, The NZA said:

dismissing any cultural critiques from minority groups as whining/political/etc as though these things happen in a vacuum.  they don't.

 

Agreed.

 

11 hours ago, The NZA said:

 

LOL - I love it.

[Iambaytor]

10 minutes ago, Little Nemo McFly said:

My disdain for identity / gender politics - pandering - and people speaking on behalf of entire races / genders comes from a real place.

 

I don't subscribe to any philosophy - my convictions comes from my own experiences.  (shrugs)

That real place is a place of bigotry.  The "pandering" you're referring to is hiring and telling stories about other groups of people who have pretty loudly spoken that they would like to be represented occasionally as well.  It's not as though untalented people are being hired or that these stories are specifically about the more diverse groups of people.  Rogue One featured a main cast that was all either non-white or non-male except for the villain and a CG robot and it had no effect on the movie whatsoever.  Visibility is literally just that and it costs you nothing so you whining about it is you saying that you don't think other groups of people deserve to be visible because for them to do so is a gimmick and not a real choice.  Maybe that's not what you think you're doing but it's the message you're sending out to the world.

[Little Nemo McFly]

14 minutes ago, Iambaytor said:

Maybe that's not what you think you're doing but it's the message you're sending out to the world.

 

Understood.

[Mr. Hakujin]

10 hours ago, Iambaytor said:

That real place is a place of bigotry...Maybe that's not what you think you're doing but it's the message you're sending out to the world.

Eh. I've been following Nemo's posts in here and I don't think that's the message he's delivering or the one anyone with an open and rational mind would construe from his collective posts either. I feel like what you and @The NZA are hearing from @Little Nemo McFly must be sounding a lot like this guy from Geeks+Gamers.

 

However, what I'm hearing from Nemo is closer to this guys commentary on SOLO--which around the 4:10 mark leads back to TLJ. And I think it's a fairly reasonable set of observations on the SW fandom and last two films. 

 

 

[Iambaytor]

Ugh great, another 15-minute ranting douchebag video.  We've addressed all this shit.  There are valid reasons the movie is the way it is, just because things didn't go the way you want doesn't mean it's wrong.  The characters who died were meant to die in Lucas' plan for the series too, he just kiboshed one in favor of a happy ending and never got around to making the set of movies where the other one died.  Given the way the prequels went down you should be happy that Disney did these instead as they almost certainly would have been less graceful.

 

You misunderstand, I'm not trying to understand what's inside the man's head and claim he's secretly a bigot.  The thing he is doing IS bigoted, by definition, objectively regardless of his personal worldview.  He's doing a bigotry and he needs to stop unless that's just who he wants to be from now on.  If you consider diverse characters and cast to be a gimmick then you're guilty of bigotry. Period.  The Ghostbusters reboot isn't "Girl Ghostbusters", they decided to gender swap it because they could and hired four extremely talented comedians to fill the roles and made a movie that same movie could've had 4 guys in it with a few minor tweaks.  Peter Parker lives in Queens New York, the most diverse neighborhood in the country, maybe the world.  It is not pandering to make his cast of side-characters be various races, it was pandering to make them all white in the first place.  Making allusions to the Burge King Kids Club in reference to that casting is bigotry.  

 

And I'm not saying Nemo is a racist or misogynist or an asshole but these are racist misogynistic asshole things to do and say.  So I urge him and anyone else to take this bit of perspective I'm giving amd either acknowledge and alter the way you behave in public or lean in and become one of the hooting legion of vile shitlords that pollute the internet.  This is yourour fulcrum moment, do with it what you please.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Iambaytor

[Da Cap'n 2099]

Not saying anyone here is saying this, but I've known Nemo as long or longer than Nick and I know for a fact he's not racist at all. Just wanted to say that.

[Iambaytor]

And I do want to clarify I'm totally not saying you are, Nemo.  Everybody is guilty of small-minded ideas, the history of this message board is a living testament to that, we're all human and we can all strive to do better.

[The NZA]

5 hours ago, Da Cap'n 2099 said:

Not saying anyone here is saying this, but I've known Nemo as long or longer than Nick and I know for a fact he's not racist at all. Just wanted to say that.

 

fair, but we need to be able to talk about bigoted viewpoints people can have/argue for (knowingly or not) without taking it as character judgements

 

over my many years here I've made homophobic, misogynist & transphobic statements, whether i meant to or not

 if i didn't get checked on it, that may not have changed 

[Iambaytor]

Exactly, if your friend knows you're saying or doing something shitty and doesn't call you on it are they even your friend?

[The NZA]

Kelly Marie Tran has deleted all the posts off her Instagram due to months of harassment she has received for her character Rose in #TheLastJedi pic.twitter.com/ipxdbDH30C

— Star Wars Facts (@SWTweets) June 5, 2018

come get your fanbase y'all 

[Visitant]

Yeah she's not the first SW actor to leave after they got shit from fans. 

 

...tbh SW fans can be up there if not worse than Rick and Morty fans. (they had more time to develop the craft)

[Drifter]

Yeesh, I hate to see actors catch shit for poor writing, directing or casting decisions... Hell, I've seen Christiensen in other films, he's a decent actor and is very good at emoting without speaking, but then I read about how Lucas was always directing him to be as stiff as possible, to always act whiney and conflicted, and then there was Lucas' dialogue... ugh... I don't care how good an actor you are, you put a relative unknown at the mercy of a famous director you're getting exactly what the director wants, it's not the actor's fault.

Edited June 6, 2018 by Drifter
grammar

[Newtype]

On 6/5/2018 at 10:24 AM, The NZA said:

 

come get your fanbase y'all 

The star wars fandom has become such a fucking cesspool of shit.

 

 

Our team of producers is offering to cover the budget for a remake of The Last Jedi in order to save Star Wars. Share this and spread the word to let @RobertIger & @Disney know you want this! This isn't a joke, we're ready to have the convo now! #RemakeTheLastJedi #StarWars

— Remake The Last Jedi (@RMTheLastJedi) June 20, 2018

[Keth]

That.... Can't be real right?

[Drifter]

Doesn't make sense. I'm honestly not sure what they could change in a remake to make it... rewarding? Satisfying? Vindicating?. The problem I had was with the premise of the overall setting; they'd have to do a lot of shoehorning and retconing to fix that. How could you make it appealing to a loyal following; how do you somehow satisfactorily explain just how badly things became so screwed up to where everybody from the original trilogy had their lives utterly ruined and their spirits completely crushed to the point they all decided to just fuck off and still leave the fanbase feeling enriched and interconnected by their shared past experience of watching the first films or leave them feeling rewarded for their continued faith and devotion to the franchise? Maybe the story already exists in other media, but for the new series to pick up where it did with things the way they were... why even make it part of the franchise at all? Hell, a trilogy about the fall of the New Republic would have been infinitely better than what we were given, which was "back to square-one, nothing the original heroes did in the first films amounted to jack shit, enjoy as we abruptly kill these beloved characters off in uncharacteristic ways. Purposefully dividing a fanbase against itself means we've crated powerful art. We're so bold and gritty, grr."

[Newtype]

3 hours ago, Drifter said:

 

 

[Da Cap'n 2099]

Yeah, this is unnecessary (and I HATED The Last Jedi). Just live with it and hope the future films do better. That's all.

[Drifter]

Gee; it's almost like the deliberate decision to divide the older fan base had led to the inevitable consequence of people picking and choosing what they like and shunning the rest. Looks like they can't guarantee the same levels of profitability from their spin off material after deliberately pissing off so many, boo fucking hoo. Even watching the original heroes get crushed would have been infinitely preferable to watching them just not matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

‘Star Wars’ Spinoffs Suspended After Tepid ‘Solo’ Box Office: Report

[Iambaytor]

Would you get off that fucking dumbass horse, there was no deliberate decision to split the fandom.  You sound so childish and entitled when you say that shit, it's not about you and it never was, deal with it.

[Drifter]

You know, I'm actually trying to be thoughtful and serious here, fuck you.

 

The filmmaking artist solicited the audience into making an emotional investment in his product, then enticed that audience into forming a perpetual fanbase in the hopes of eliciting more money out of them through marketing, merchandising and careful control over continuity and content; controlling the narrative in perpetuity. It was a noteworthy accomplishment. It created the very concept of the modern multi-media franchise property. There was nothing like it before; closest you had were Saturday morning cartoons about comic book characters, short-reel serials of toss-away adventure series with niche magazines that had sporadic publishing and maybe a one-off film from a popular series of novels. Nothing with this type of mainstream power. Something important was deliberately created and asked that we be a part of it. And yes, I did fall for it.

 

The original trilogy really has become a cornerstone of modern western culture, the fictional characters and their stories filling the needs of mythology that our current civilization sorely lacks, and because they're fictional they can be incorruptible by the reality of their times, unlike our own history where any and all personal heroes throughout the ages are more than simply flawed but had aspects that were downright damning to our modern sensibilities. We make myth because there are no real perfect heroes.

 

And now, something seems wrong. The veneer has cracked and we've watched as something that was thought to be forever having been unceremoniously, almost contemptibly, replaced - not just superseded. In this I'm starting to relate to the feelings of the voters in the rust belt in some way, though I dare say I'm not shooting myself in the foot, cutting off my nose to spite my face, nor trying to drag everyone down into misery with me; this is entertainment, not government after all. The advantages of the controlled narrative has been turned on itself. The new films are more of a remake than a continuation, and in choosing to do so, the previous mythology has been damaged by the powers that be. Though, admittedly, the original creator was also starting to fuck things up too.

 

So, I'm done. I'm a whiney little dipshit who has become a self-flagellating martyr because I found meaning in a bullshit popcorn story of meaningless fluff, ascribing more importance to it than was appropriate, and now I'm bitching like a baby, not because it didn't turn out the way I wanted, but because of its mutually exclusive narrative mythologies. And don't try to defend it, they are mutually exclusive, and are so by design. So forgive the schadenfreude when I and those like me no longer chose to eat the shit-sandwich with a smile.

 

Something important that had been made, has now been rendered less, due to what is being done now, because of its nature. 

 

I do feel that a disservice has been done. And I am not alone.

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Drifter