Daredevil

[Iambaytor]

[The NZA]

...yeah i can't read much of ti either, but hey, there's the fall from grace 90's armor that may've partly inspired the netflix one!

[The NZA]

I'm not, enjoyed the story so far

 

reading through Miller's amazing Daredevil run, and a few things:

 

1) can someone specifically outline his art duties? Klaus Johnson is "finishing" or something like that until issue # 189 i wanna say, after which time he's credited/noted as the penciler proper. this is some amazing art for, you know, the guy who gave us Ronin soon after.

 

2) oh my god the letter columns are priceless gems that i'm so happy made it into the scans; the reaction to his darker world is met with so much love, and so much hate that practically says hie's glorifying organized crime/etc at times. some wish he'd go back to wisecracking, one guy takes the obvious shot ("Punisher? Kingpin? Stilt Man? why don't we just unmask DD as Peter Parker and be done with it?"), it's such a fantastic time capsule that really rebuffs how big this shit was in 82/83.

[Thelogan]

You got me wondering about this art duties myself. I'm unable to check my issues because storage room problems, so I tapped the resource I always tap for this kind of thing: dad.

I remember a lot of it looking very Millerish, so I put forward that Janson was inking Miller's roughs, but as Miller took on more duties those roughs just got rougher until Janson deserved more credit.

The response

 

Okay, so here's the startling sequence of events: Miller pencilled and Janson inked #158-172 (except for #162, which was drawn by Ditko, and #163, which was inked by Rubinstein and Janson). Miller took over the writing with #168. On #173-184, Janson is credited with finishes over Miller's breakdowns. "It just got rougher and rougher until dude deserved more credit" is probably the perfect way to describe what happened.

 

Miller was "scripter & storyteller" on #185-190, while Janson was credited with pencilling and inking. I think Miller was actually doing extremely rough breakdowns for these issues, because the composition doesn't look like Janson's. And I vaguely remember seeing some of Miller's roughs for #188 at the Dallas Fantasy Fair in 1982.

 

Miller's final issue was #191, which he wrote and pencilled. It was inked by Terry Austin. Janson took over all of the pencilling and inking with #192.

[The NZA]

...can we trade dads

[Thelogan]

it makes you constantly feel like a "casual"

 

Pretty sure he did that from memory too, the response was disturbingly quick.

[The NZA]

that's just incredible. i mean, i know it's a famous run, but it's one thing recalling issue #'s - specific credits, down to the inker? your old man is awesome. he's got to've written in a letter at some point himself.

 

hey, can you ask him something for me? finished said Miller run, and i'm not sure what other issues are noteworthy/worth reading. i read a few issues of denny o'neil's and he's a good dude but it was such a shift post Miller i didn't stick with it. went back & read the early run but god, silver age stuff is just rough sometimes - though it's really something seeing Woods take over the art like 5 issues in and add so much stuff (double D logo, proper red costume etc).

 

so yeah, before or after Miller's run, what's good? i wanna say the only stuff i recall offhand pre Marvel Knights/Smith run was Fall From Grace, and i can't imagine that arc aged well either.

[Thelogan]

The first Marvel comic I attempted to read was an issue of Daredevil when I was maybe eight or nine years old. Couldn't get into it. Every couple of years I'd give the series another chance, but it was just never very good until Miller got involved. And when he left, it got bland again and stayed that way until he returned to do some issues with Mazzucchelli and a graphic novel with Sienkiewicz.

 

To answer your question: No, I can't think of any other Daredevil that's worth reading.

 

I personally liked the Smith run too, but I can't think of anything else outside of recent stuff that's worthwhile.

[The NZA]

fair enough, thanks again man. occurred to me ive not yet read Miller's Elektra series so there's that.

 

i went back & read some classic Colan/Romita Sr stuff - his first spidey team-up, etc - and it's fun but your dad's impression seems spot-on, though i am enjoying Nocenti's Typhoid Mary run. from what i recall after this, it teeters between too lighthearted/spidey-lite (Kessel) and whoever wrote Fall From Grace/etc.

 

i think that's another big thing i love about the character, really - it's not that the other dudes are necessarily bad, especially for their respective eras. it's just that Miller, then Bendis, Bru & Waid are such giants, that even with such a long stretch you feel spoiled to have the quality of the highs.

 

speaking of, I'm not crazy about Waid's current direction (moved to San Fran, ditched the costume etc) but he's been about the only guy to walk the line between dark & wise-cracking, so i can't tear away...plus there's like an issue or so left before it's done. anyway, moving all this to the appropriate thread, but thanks again man.

[The NZA]

CBR: Soule's interview on his upcoming run - gonna spoiler tag stuff since we're not done with Secret Wars yet, for what it's worth

 

 

• book jumps like 8 months ahead in time
  
• Matt's back in NY now; identity somehow back under wraps? (pls no mephisto)
  
• based out of chinatown now
  
• works as a ADA prosecutor, foggy's...elsewhere
  
• sidekick is a chinese immigrant kid with a power set that works well with Matt
  
• book's gonna have a noir look

 

[The NZA]

so, we're 17 issues into Soule's run, and it's been enjoyable - he's got Matt in the Shadowland outfit for some reason, his sidekick just took a major change there's 2 new villains so far. thing is, after Mark Waid's 2nd volume tied up & ANAD marvel started, Matty's now back in NY & working as a prosecutor, fully having put the genie back in the bottle...only Foggy seems to know about his identity now, and they're not speaking as a result.

 

this month finally began the arc to say how he managed that...

 

 

so you see Matt shopping around for deus ex's, and he literally eets Hellstorm in a bar & they reference One More Day and i thought i was gonna die

 

 

fortunately it's not that, but the last page points to...well, i don't know how it'd work, but i'm down for the ride. I've loved Ron Garney's art since his Cap run (also with Waid) in the 90's, and i'm cutting Soule some slack here because following a decade of Bendis, Brubaker, Rucka, Diggle & Waid is a pretty hard act to follow...but i am hoping for something big when this ties up. We've just startd a Bullseye mini, and there's apparently Elektra & Kingin ones on deck, preceding some kinda big event tying them together, so i'll post on that when i find more!

[Iambaytor]

It's been slow going so far, I liked the Bucket of Blood Banksy but Tenfingers was stupid. Like Silver Age Batman stupid.

[The NZA]

yeah, he wasn't great....the concept was silly enough, but i was hoping they'd turn him into something interesting, where they didn't

 

like, Slott's AMS ran something similar years ago with Mr Negative, but i ended up digging that

[The NZA]

 

the cover to # 20 - it's being taken as a return to the classic suit, but since this arc is about putting the cat back in the bag, i'm wondering if it's how we got here with the shadowland suit

[The NZA]

so, "Purple" tied up...

 

 

okay, that was a less ham-fisted way of putting the cat back in the bag than Joe Q had, but i'm still glad it's wrapped up...Waid left the identity being public as something of a dead-end for other writers, and with the push to try some status quo stuff again soon, i get it - i can't immediately think of a more satisfying answer than "SECRET WARS DID IT" but ive seen worse.

 

 

also, between this & Secret Empire, you can see they're pushing this new Defenders team hard soon.

[The NZA]

Marvel Announces 'The Death of Daredevil

 

 

Quote

 

Soule spoke with Marvel.com to announce the series, revealing that he's taking part in the time-honored tradition of ruining Murdock's life as much as possible to leave a big mess for the next writer to clean up.

“A lot of writers in the past have left Daredevil in terrible situations at the end of their runs,” Soule said. “Brian Michael Bendis put him in prison for Ed Brubaker to handle; Mark Waid, who preceded me, had Daredevil in San Francisco, his secret identity was blown, he wasn’t a lawyer anymore. I had to handle all of that.

 

"So, I wanted to carry on in the tradition of leaving Daredevil in the worst spot imaginable, and letting the next writer somehow deal with this impossible problem that Matt [Murdock] would never get out of. And I wanted to make mine the biggest one that has ever been done.”

 

The arc will come out bi-weekly, with the first issue being released on October 17th. It will all wrap up in issue #612, hitting store shelves on November 28.

October is shaping up to be a big month for the Devil of Hell's Kitchen, and Marvel Comics looks to be capitalizing off of the buzz. Daredevil the series returns to Netflix for Season 3 on October 19th, just two days after "The Death of Daredevil" launches.

It looks like the Kingpin will play a major role in the storyline, much like he will in the upcoming season of the show, as the character looms large on the cover of Daredevil #609.

 

 

 

Soule's run has had some highlights but I'm ready for the next creative team 

[The NZA]

...so yeah, Soule's run was the definition of uneven for me.  as ryan said, Muse was interesting & what they did with Blindspot as his "sidekick" was good at times, but the run peaked around the supreme court battle to get masked vigilantes as useful for court testimony, followed by a trip to china & the resurgence of some of the weirder hand elements (which was also fun but like kevin smith's run forever ago, got weirdly religious).  there was a stint when kingpin was shot up by ninjas & matty was interim mayor that it was just crazy enough to be really fun, but unfortunately soule ended his run with one of the most disappointing-ass moves

 

matty and the now-living twin brother he made up in the silver age (don't ask, it's as dumb as it sounds) and their team manage to take down mayor fisk! everything's coming up milhouse!

 

OH WAIT THAT TRUCK THAT HIT HIM LIKE 6 ISSUES BACK AND HE QUICKLY RECOVERED FROM? YOU GUESSED IT, THIS ENTIRE ARC WAS A DREAM WHILE HE WAS DYING BECAUSE HEY IT WAS GREAT WHEN BRAZIL PULLED THIS STUNT WAH WAH WAHHHHHH

 

ughhhh, fuck i hated that.  the man without fear mini that followed was enjoyable introspection but nuts to that: one issue into chip zdarsky (who stays underrated as a writer) and marco checcheto (from rucka's punisher run) new series and it already feels like what i've wanted since waid tied his run up years back.  there's also enough tie-ins/nods to the netflix take for this to be a solid jumping-in point for new readers too...this was just a really good breakdown on why matty has a strong rogue's gallery but remains his own worst enemy.  can't wait for the next issue. 

[The NZA]

3 issues in, and the trade's already bought  

 

hope this team stays around for at least an omnibus 

[Visitant]

I'm a huge Zdarsky fan, and honestly...i've never read much daredevil. Zdarsky is making me want to go back and read some of those legendary runs on the character now. 

[The NZA]

Miller > Bendis > Brubaker > Waid 

 

those are the big ones, with enjoyable stuff in between (and follow each other well enough too, even despite decades between miller and bendis) - lemme know if you want issue #s!

[The NZA]

as of this week we're about 6 isssues into Chip Zdarskys run and holy shit someone please read this so we can talk about it, this is already going to interesting places that even Waid's run took a while to build towards - cannot believe how dude took the bullshit Soule left him with and just hit the ground running 

[Visitant]

I'm picking up every issue the day it comes out. Its just been fantastic. 

[The NZA]

right? it's going in really cool directions, and i love the artist too 

 

we've kinda done hell's kitchen without matt before, but not like this - the issue before with pete shutting him down was really new territory, and cole's plight is the most ive cared about a cop/fed in DD since bendis' run, oddly. 

 

really hoping this team stays together for a while, i know i've said it but this is omnibus material so far 

[Visitant]

Zdarsky doesn't usually bounce around projects too much, so I could see him staying in for quite a while. Plus the #1 was like a mega seller so I don't think the powers that be will want him off anytime soon. 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Bindusara

[The NZA]

issue 19 dropped, and goddamn, i know ive been saying it but Zdarsky's run is bought once the omnibus drops, on sight. 

 

he continues making gold of the shit & ashes Soule left him, and the current arc feels like a culmination of the bullshit state he was handed the character in.  literally my only complaint has been that Marco Checchetto has been off & on, which is a shame because he's a fantastic artist.