Panch Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I think the problem here is growing up in the 90s and growing up in the 2000s were very different. We were more innocent then. New villains, a new costume and a crazy reveal that he was the clone the whole time was pretty awesome to us. Baytor read the clone saga when he was 17. Doing the math for you, that was 2006. Imagine all the stuff he read that had already come out that was lightyears ahead of 90s "crap". Of course its going to seem silly in 2006! We shouldn't get upset with Baytor... he was just born in the wrong era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 ah, it's not a big deal - it's just a thing i have with his arguments some times. he champions far less from books of varying eras, but this one gets dismissed because of heavy-handed editing of the time forcing the shamalyan twist he's (rightfully, to be fair) knocking. i get that it taints the whole thing, but id still defend AOA if it ended on a shitty note too, for the sum of its parts. and baytor's perfectly capable of contemporizing non-Moore other books, is the thing. i'm judging it from the events that went down long before Reilly took the webs, plus de falco/the rest of the crew talking on that link i posted and the one-shots following the event about where the whole thing was leading to: again, Kaine as the natural evolution of Parker, the new rogues gallery they were slowly building, the breaking away from the formula by letting aunt may go and moving Parker past his decades-old safety zones, etc. i just think it's unfair to dismiss one of the only times i saw an entire 4-book (monthly) series tied together across the different writers with a cohesive story, that wasn't something the editors would let happen again for almost a decade, sadly. i'm just busting his balls the same way he would for me if i passed on an otherwise interesting book because of what i heard or rend of the tail end, is all. he's convinced me in the past to not sleep on things just because it's common to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganny McVagflaps Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 All hail the biggest BR bro ever. EVER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) I get your "It was game-changing argument" but you know what else was game-changing at the time? Every other fucking book ever. Everybody got a contemporary replacement for a little while. There were the ones that worked: Jack Knight, Kyle Rayner (despite my dislike of the character he was very of the era and his book was a hell of a lot better than Hal's book had been in a while), and... fuck, I can't even think of a third one. Fate had his moments, he was mostly terrible though. But the whole concept of "It's Spider-Man but slightly different" is so incredibly dumb that every time I think about it it just gets me mad. I wont argue that other books at the time were not good (I have an issue of the Lady Doc Ock bit, I think that was Sensational Spider-Man and it was pretty meh. I don't remember a lot bad about Peter Parker Spider-Man, admittedly I dropped off for years and picked it back up in the mid 2000s when I found another source of comics, but I don't own a bad issue. So there's that.) There are books from that era I thoroughly enjoyed, I love the shit out of Mutant X and Age of Apocalypse (even when it got kinda dumb with the Sugar Man and all that) and Ka-Zar was really enjoyable even though I think that entire series has been retconned as I've seen none of the characters involved in anything else and Deadpool... had a few good arcs... sometimes. The 90s were really DC's time to shine, though they had their share of fuckups as well. My main issue with Ben Reilly is that any of the good stories from that era would have worked perfectly fine with Peter and any of the ones that required a bleached-blond clone were dumb and boring and dumb. I respect that it tried, I however can't respect it for failing. Also: Recally I am still reading it against the advice of Pancho (the closest thing to a resident Spider-Manologist we have here) and Logan (he likes good comics, you've probably never heard of them) because I am reading EVERYTHING. I have four volumes of Marvel Team-Up. FOUR VOLUMES! And insanely enough I am strongly considering repeating this crusade on The Avengers, Captain America, Moon Knight, Thor, and The X-Men. I expect to be wearing a giant felt carrot and speaking without prepositions by 2020. If its good, I will know. Rest assured. Edited June 24, 2012 by Iambaytor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganny McVagflaps Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Wait the shit, I hate to be interjecting (again) in this thread of joy, but there was a Lady Doc Ock? Move over Ben Reilly, I'm backing that crazy bitch. When the fuck did that happen? (Quick Google search) The fucking fuck? This must've been in those wilderness years when I discovered going to the comic store is pretty sweet, but slipping the hefty into a fizzy slit is so much better. This is pre-having cake and eating it. I thought they were mutually exclusive damn it. Anyways continue. . . . (Oh, and lemme know them Lady DocOc issues puhrrrleeez so I can torrent legally read 'em) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Extract your own information from this: I can't be arsed. http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix4/ladyocktrainer.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganny McVagflaps Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Didn't need to read anything other than Hench-Droids. Gotta geddit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 But the whole concept of "It's Spider-Man but slightly different" is so incredibly dumb that every time I think about it it just gets me mad. My main issue with Ben Reilly is that any of the good stories from that era would have worked perfectly fine with Peter and any of the ones that required a bleached-blond clone were dumb and boring and dumb. I respect that it tried, I however can't respect it for failing. i feel like i'm talking to a wall, man. there was a year (i wanna say more) of what im talking about before blonde Reilly had the webs. that's the clone saga, that's what i'm talking about. you're still on about the post-game, i was talking about a series-wide event that you're on about by having read its shitty epilogue, which no one's defending. Parker didn't even step down until nearly the end of the whole thing, "Timebomb", which was where i think it started going crappy (the reveal of the "real" spidey was right around then). Everything ive read from De falco and these guys from that time reads like Reilly wasn't even intended to every take over to begin with, but perhaps expand the family like the bat-books or something. I'm saying if he'dve done that, or gone off on his own shit like "Lost Years" with Kaine or something, it've been much more fondly remembered, and most people on about it would've actually read it. goddamn where the hell did you find a female doc ock figure, that's too crappy to be a custom job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Just finished Issue 3 of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Volume 3: Century. I've warmed up to the 1910 issue but I pretty much despised the 1969 issues as it was little more than a "spot the pop culture reference" game. But now comes 2009 and holy fucking shit! That was fucking insane, like actually clinically fucking warped, I fucking loved it. Harry Potter shot a lightning bolt out of his cock and then Mary Poppins descended from heaven and melted him. Then Mufasa looked majestically over Allan Quatermain's grave while M and the Bond Girls from the 60s flew off to become immortal!. Good on you Alan Moore, do whatever meandering nonsense you want now, you've officially created the best thing ever. Edited June 28, 2012 by Iambaytor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganny McVagflaps Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 There was a whole lot of spot the pop culture reference there for me. Still bonus points for putting in references to The Thick of It, Extras, The Day Today and most bizarrely Fear of a Black Hat. Well done, Mr. Moore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yeah I'm sure I picked up maybe 10% of the references I got The Rolling Stones, Get Carter, Blacula, and Voldemort. For the life of me I can't figure out what the caveman thing was a reference to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathy Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I love Wednesdays: Soulfire: Hope #1 I, Vampire #10 The Mind Gap #2 American Vampire #28 Witchblade #157 The Hypernaturals #1 The Waking: Dreams End #2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Witchblade's still going? Does she have clothing now or is she still in a demon scab bikini? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathy Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Little bit of both. It depends on what mood she's in. The Witchblade changes every time. They've become inventive with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Hey if the word inventive can be used to describe Witchblade then that's always a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 why did the internet stop scanning spawn right when it got interesting again, it'd only been like 10 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visitant Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I tried starting the Darkness yesterday after really loving the video game. The main character Jackie is crude, self centered and you have no way to feel sympathetic toward him in the comics unlike the video game. Just another product of that 90s era spawn wannabes I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 every single time i've picked up a Darkness book past the initial Ennis run, it's basically been a disappointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathy Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I'm liking the Darkness run. It's merging with the Artifacts story and is very interesting right now. With the way the story is, it is absolutely possible to feel sorry for Jackie. There's a lot of shit happening to him that he is losing control of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Oh sure NOW, they revised the series after the game came out. OG Jackie was just a dick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Who Dat Ninja? Christ, League: Century #3 crammed that shit in. Did you guys catch the cast of Little Britain? 'Baytor, what page is your caveman on? I think I missed that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I don't recall, it's towards the beginning when Michael Cain's character from Get Carter meets with the two men at the strip club place, it's having sex with the stripper on stage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Shit, you're talking about 1969, huh? I'm a stupid. I think it was a reference to this. It's a bit of a stretch, but the Vril were found in a cave north of England. I analyzed the shit out of these for the references. I think I only missed the ones that are really, really British (but I patted myself on the back for (at least partially) getting the Only Fools And Horses "Mockney" jab) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganny McVagflaps Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 DONOTSTEALZMY=CHARUCTURSZ My new series Before LOEG is gonna be great. Stupid fucking Alan Moore. He hasn't done anything god since ABC and that was a decade ago. Fuck a Moore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 http://jessnevins.com/annotations/1969annotations.html ha HA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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