The NZA Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I think the fact that the previous posters stands by such a horrible villain shows that he is not only devoid of even questionable taste, but may have suffered some head trauma. seriously, you're pushing me into baytor territory of shitting on mediocre bat villains. "sure she does mad villainous things, but that's not what villains are about" = dumb, and expecting a bit more than what mainstream superhero villains offer. we could do a whole thread on this, but you'd have to name me some more compelling villains than say magneto first. anyway, wizard and like everybody that voted disagrees with you, so let's move onto your other quirky opinions, shall we? Yes, I know why Aunt May went all bitchy, but it was pointless, pointless as all hell, and was not explored in the least. What happened to her marriage as a result? Outside of kicking Harry out, nothing of substance. And when you're running 3-5 issues a month, don't tell me there wasn't space. As for the minis, haven't read them, and when again, there are so many issues, why are they even necessary? Mr. Negative is probably the most tolerable of the newbies but we know nothing of his goals, powers, or personality honestly, he's a fairly standard mobster outside of his look and wacky abilities. they didn't really explore her going negative, that's true. was just one more thing for pete to deal with at the time. uh, writers do minis when they have other side-stuff to say? we're talking about spider-man, a character that used to have 4 ongoing monthlies, and now there's uh, 2 i guess, im not reading the other. anyway, if you want to know more about mr negative or anti-venom (i did), you read said minis. how does a bat-fan hate minis? To be fair it has probably been done elsewhere as well, but the whole villain pulling the strings behind the scenes in order to send a constant stream of villains the heroes way in order to break him, I mean, that is Knightfall condensed into one phrase. ...you don't honestly think that arc invented this tactic/story, though. so let's move on. I know Spidey was dark in the 90s and it felt out of place back then too. The Lizard one was just a little odd to me, there had been few hints in previous appearances that he was THAT unhinged, and I felt that Killing the son was just too damn harsh and kinda a cheap dramatic device. And that's all well and good, that Spidey has been dark in the past. But this whole new direction was supposed to be a return to the good old days right, that golden late 70s early 80s era that Joe Q pines for. With the beginning stories though the villains were hit and miss, I felt they got that down fairly well, after 600 it seemed to just be relentless in its darkness. Spider Man to me has always had an underlying optimism to it, even when Peter was down on his luck, there was a feeling that things would get better, and that it was the little things that mattered. im not sure how much spider-man you've read, to be honest - not so much taking a shot as saying you might be unfamiliar with how thing'sve gone before: there were times (the Shrieking...) it got too dark, but im saying spidey's been a sometimes dark book for a long time now, leaving that element out because it doesn't fit with how you want pete's left to go is...odd. i can see what you're saying @ the spoiler thing, but if the writers are looking to push the Lizard past the edge & keep him in that state, that's the line of no coming back. it's bold/harsh, yeah, but if you're gonna move second-tier villains like say Mysterio up, sometimes you gotta make moves. death of Gwen made things entirely dark for pete and the goblin. Kraven's hunt was likewise really dark, even stuff like Maximum Carnage had that element of hopelessness - pete's vaunted optimism, as you pointed out, gets tested almost as often as Matt's sanity. I loved the arc with the Shocker, I loved the Osborn arcs, some of the romantic entanglements have also been fun, and the supporting cast has overall been strong. It however took a major dark turn, and it just didn't feel right. I mean ritual sacrifice, a mutated hitman that spits acid and looks like an early 90s Image comic reject, the return of Kaine? Eating your own kid? Frank Miller-esque in costume fucking? I mean hell, that's a lot of dark. I don't mind dark as a rule, but in Spidey it just feels a bit over the top. I think part of it is the sheer number of innocents who have horrible, horrible shit happen to them. Even Mattie Franklin, who yeah was a crappy hero, and constantly gets shat on was played as nothing more than a pure victim who was murdered in cold blood without ever even putting up a fight. Something also tells me that JJ's relationship to her as a foster father is going to be completely ignored. Hell, she was missing for weeks and no one noticed. I thought no one noticing in Alias was a little odd, but it was worse than ever in ASM. the spider-stuff with the Kraven family felt like a throwback to the JMS idea of the spider-family, so again, i dug it. also, dont let ASC see you shitting on Kaine, who was a cool character, by the way...but if you wanna have a procession for Mattie, hey, ill show up, but really, i woudln't hold my breath on anyone giving a fuck about a character no one's really messed with or cared about for a long time now. also, i got the feeling we'll see more from this story - on madame web/spider-family and such, not so much the kravens. Issue 2 was better than issue one, but they were both pretty lame. The idea of Peter missing the wedding is one thing, the execution was dumb as all hell. Which was the same problem as One More Day, finding a way to retcon the marriage was one thing, Joe Q just picked the stupidest way possible to do it. In OMD it was Mephisto, in OMIT it was Peter Parker, the man who takes punches to the head from the Hulk, get crushed by a fat guy. It's like they weren't even trying. The conversations in OMIT 2 weren't that bad, but they weren't all that great either. A break-up at that point I would have bought, or maybe an off and on thing. But instead it was a cop out, and where it had seemed that Peter and MJ hadn't seen each other in quite some time at the start of BND, instead it seems that the break up was very recent, just seems dumb as hell. And again, the manner Aunt May's survival was just plain dumb. the point wasnt how pete got delayed, it was that he did - i kinda get why they dont stress this. did you see how hard he fell? you're mad nitpicking on this one - the point is, this kinda thing can happen to peter on a tuesday. your comparing this "execution" to OMD's overall point means you're kinda missing the point. if you wanna call MJ saying/realizing this life was a bit more than she bargained for a "cop out"...dude, everytime you say stuff like this, or @ cassandra nova or some DD stuff you got thrown off by, i wonder what books you're reading to really fuss over slightly weaker bits of fun/good storytelling. you know the last time a supehero had a breakup in comics that was well written? it was Kyle Rayner, like almost ten years ago, by my count. /agree to disagree here, that was the best part of this current event for me - Joe Q having to go back & put some reality over where he previously had a horrible deus ex. aunt may got a precordial thump from a superhero; deal with it If they can get some of the revamped villains with the feel of the early issues, I think the book could be great, and if they never speak of the retcons again it will be too soon. yeah, this was what had everyone (myself included) groaning at OMIT; the wounds had healed and it felt like Joe Q wanted to reopen them - but again, since there's some direction so far, im intrigued. im guessing the manner in which everyone "forgets" pete's identity again is gonna leave me salty, though. 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