A Game of Thrones

[Visitant]

I think peoples big beef with all this is that it was a pacing issue. This seasons been rushed to finalize everything so people feel cheated because so much is happening too quickly. (at the cost of character development)

[Panch]

People are stupid. I saw complaints that the first two episodes were too slow and to fuck off with the character development already and get to the killing. Now they want the reverse. I'm ok with all they're doing (even if it's weaksauce af writing). I love that they're fucking with everyone's expectations. Fuck the know-it-all fans.

[Mr. Hakujin]

On 5/13/2019 at 11:03 AM, Panch said:

 

  Hide contents

People are stupid. I saw complaints that the first two episodes were too slow and to fuck off with the character development already and get to the killing. Now they want the reverse. I'm ok with all they're doing (even if it's weaksauce af writing). I love that they're fucking with everyone's expectations. Fuck the know-it-all fans.

 

I'm kinda with ya here. Have I had unmet expectations this season? Definitely. But this is a show which became famous for subverting expectations. So, I can't hate on the creators for being true to their show's style since that final scene of S1E1. And S8E5 not only stayed true to the series tradition of offering a giant twist for major characters in the penultimate episode, but it offered perhaps one of the greatest twists in TV history. (Well, maybe more of a turn than a twist. But it was still spectacular af.)

 

I do feel like there is a lot--A LOT--to wrap up in the 80 minutes they have for the finale. Can't wait to see if they pull it all off.

[Panch]

 

[Keth]

Good ending.

 

Not great.

 

But good.

 

I do wish that the dragons had shown that much intelligence as the show was going. Even Drogon was like "I know what the real enemy is"

 

Bran was a great choice for king too I thought. Unexpected, but made sense.

And the Stark goodbyes got me.

[Mr. Hakujin]

Agreed. Good, not great. I'd give it a B/B+.

 

Likes:

 

* Tyrion finding his siblings in the rubble. It's like the creators knew the fans were gonna be speculating they could've somehow survived. I've never been team Lannister, so that really didn't resonate with me emotionally, but it was a scene those characters deserved.

* I've a friend who is really upset about Daeny's turn. (Like major upset.) However, I think Tyrion explained how she was able to burn KL to Jon (and the audience that hadn't figured it out yet) how she was able to do this quite convincingly. 

* The moment Jon realizes he has to kill Daeny. Bigtime feels.

* All the shots w/ Jon and Drogon. That scene were Drogon's just staring Jon down before he enters the throne room is gonna be my new wallpaper.

* The new small council. I was so happy to see those characters running shit.

* I remember back in S4 after the Red Wedding when the meme was going around with the Stark kids and family witht he picture of them from S1E1 and how they'd never see each other again. True, but the surviving kids of Ned & Cat Stark are shaping the future of the country in a way no other family ever really has. That ending montage was pretty great.

* The fact they knew Jon stabbed Daeny in the heart means he must've confessed. Jon being Jon. Character consistency. You know nothing.

* Ghost FINALLY gets his "goodboi" pat and nuzzle!

 

Dislikes:

 

* Where the Dothraki at, yo!?!? Like zero mention of or site of them after that opening speech by Daeny. Did they ship back to Essos? Head south to raid Dorne & Highgarden? It should have at least been brought up in that small council meeting.

*Greyworm not fighting until the death. Him taking Jon hostage and just not fighting until the last soldier down seemed outta character for him. Why bother with that scene executing the prisoners establishing he carries out Daeny's orders no matter what if he's just gonna let Jon live after confessing to killing his queen? 

* King Bran & Queen Sansa. I like that they both got crowns, so these are more likes with an asterisk. The way they got the crowns was waaay too convenient. The other kingdoms are just going to settle on the North getting independence without a peep? Don't get me wrong, I think Sansa had a great argument for independence since the North basically saved Westeros from the doom of the Night King. However, there is a good counterargument that if Bran is the King of Westeros then he's technically the king of the North. So why the need for independence? And Bran told Tryrion back in S8E4 that he didn't want to rule, he was all past, not really a man--how the fuck can this be the person to lead the country into the future if that's all true?

Edited May 20, 2019 by Mr. Hakujin

[the division of joy]

Spoiler

At least there's no lumberjacks?

 

Also.... "I guess the unsullied forgot that Jon was armed with two swords in the throne room"

Jokes aside, probably the best ending that could have been done with an extremely uneven season.

[Keth]

So since the entire internet has written their own "how it should have ended" things, I'll throw out my two cents here. I'm not really going off a six episode structure, just what I think could have led to a more satisfying conclusion

 

PREFACE: I liked the ending

 

 

So first things first, The Night King should have always been saved as the end boss. So, Dany and the rest should have come up with a plan to take King's Landing FIRST. "We need more men, and we need the Lannister army. So we HAVE to take the throne." This would have the clash at King's Landing happen FIRST. And I believe it should have been Dany sparing the city. Yes she could have gone either way, but ultimately I think she has proven herself more powerful than just becoming the Mad Queen. 

 

 

That moment where we see her about to lose it, perhaps she has some self reflection and instead of burning the place to the ground, she just flies up to the red keep to accept Cersei's surrender. (Clegane bowl still happens. Cause it just has to.) Fill in the blanks to what happens to Cersei, Jaime etc. I assume Jaimie still fights for the living, and Dany forgives Tyrion cause at this point in this universe she's become better. 

 

So where are we? Kings landing is taken, Cersei is finally defeated. Killed, not killed. I'll let you fill in those blanks. The point is that Danerys  is now officially queen of the seven kingdoms. And in order to make Jon's Targaryen heritage mean a damn, we push past the weirdness, and they do indeed rule together as king and queen. This happens, the fairytale end for these two that everyone predicted/wanted. No GoT dark twist here. There is an actual win without the need for a dark twist (other than the incest). 

 

So next we gotta take care of those pesky Whitewalkers. The whole thing that got us into this whole mess truth be told (the show literally starts with Ned beheading someone running from them. So it makes sense to end with them as a threat.)

 

We gear up for an even bigger Battle for Winterfell with the Lannister army in tow. And this is where the story can branch off in one of two directions:

 

A) The battle goes more or less the same as it did in the actual episode. Maybe we lose more beloved characters. But it still ends with that amazing piece of music and Arya becoming the hero of Westeros. Dany and Jon rule together with a new high council and the future is bright for everyone, while we mourn the fallen. Convenient ending still, but it's a happier, yet more satisfying ending than what we got imo. This is my main point: The Night King should have been saved til the end. Not brushed aside mid season. He was always, always, always the main threat. If I have one major disappointment with this season, it's this. We were cheated out of a truly threatening enemy. Regardless, this is the happy ending, and the Whitewalkers are all defeated. The End. 

 

B) This is where it gets to be more Thronesy. The battle is NOT going good from the get go. People are holding their own, but the Dead are just fucking PLOWING their way through Winterfell. Character deaths getting uncomfortably high. Sam is slain trying to protect Gilly. This is where Varys dies instead of being sold out by Tyrion (c'mon man). Jorah- Dead Davos-Dead Brienne and Jaimie-Dead protecting each other. One by one heroes fall. 

The Whitewalkers are making their way to Bran to Gangster's Paradise in the background. They murder Theon. The scene plays out just as we know it from the episode. Arya leaps from the shadows and is grabbed by TNK midair....

 

She drops her blade, and as it is halfway to her other hand to end TNK he simply squeezes and cracks Arya's neck. She goes limp and he tosses her aside before turning around to face Bran. I don't know what he does to him, or what he will using him for. Presumably to turn him into a Wight and use his Warging powers? Just kill Bran and eliminate the threat? This could have been the answer to the question of TNK's true motives. Either way the war is lost and so is Winterfell. The remaining forces retreat. Jon and Dany, Tyrion (I still feel like it's totally within reason he lives.), Sansa, Melisandre (red witch), Tormund, and a handful of others. They retreat further North. Back beyond the wall. The Night King and his army march south. Furthering winter and beginning the eternal night. Our only hope is that Dany and Jon are still together, willing to lead the survivors and hopefully find a way to take back the world. A small amount of hope, but still hope. The final shot should be the Army of the Dead marching on King's Landing. Slaughtering/enslaving the city. The Night King finally takes his seat on the Iron Throne. Staring into the camera. Cut to black. Credits. 

 

TL;DR Dany stays good, kills Cersei first then they fight the night king second for the final boss. He may or may not win. End. 
 

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2019 by Axels

[Jont]

Do we really need to hide spoilers? 

Spoiler

Anyway, I can understand the North remaining independent, as they'd already been in open conflict over the issue and declared their position, contesting it would drag the continent back into a state of war. What gets me is that that considered, Bran is now ruling as a foreign King.

Bigger issue is that Bran Stark is in no way Bran Stark any more. I think it's beyond head canon at this point, the Three Eyed Raven has been playing the angles from the start, and not necessarily benevolently. Who was so insistent that Jon learn about his parentage? He does tell Tyrion that he doesn't want to rule, but he probably knows that one quality that Tyrion is looking for is the lack of desire to rule. Only question for me is if he warged into Drogon to burninate the Iron Throne. 

 

[Mr. Hakujin]

1 hour ago, Jont said:

Do we really need to hide spoilers? 

  Hide contents

Anyway, I can understand the North remaining independent, as they'd already been in open conflict over the issue and declared their position, contesting it would drag the continent back into a state of war. What gets me is that that considered, Bran is now ruling as a foreign King.

Bigger issue is that Bran Stark is in no way Bran Stark any more. I think it's beyond head canon at this point, the Three Eyed Raven has been playing the angles from the start, and not necessarily benevolently. Who was so insistent that Jon learn about his parentage? He does tell Tyrion that he doesn't want to rule, but he probably knows that one quality that Tyrion is looking for is the lack of desire to rule. Only question for me is if he warged into Drogon to burninate the Iron Throne. 

 

Agreed. There's a lot left unanswered about Bran's role.

I think from a storytelling perspective the showrunners were just trying to give a twist ending since everyone was thinking it'd be either Jon or Mad Queen on the throne--and the last minute Sansa cheerleaders. Tyrion made a decent case for him but like two episodes earlier Bran literally said he wasn't Bran Stark and he couldn't rule! So either it's some very sloppy fucking writing having Bran smugly accept the Iron Throne (now the Iron Spot On The Floor) or muthafucka was playing angles to get there all along.

 

Bran not warging into Drogon was one of the disappointments of this season for sure. I think that was the plan originally. However, everyone was talking about it as the endgame scenario since S4. So I think the writers just never touched on it to subvert expectations. If Bran was really "in" Drogon at the end then that's a big cheat in my book. It undercuts the Drogon/Daeny relationship. They definitely seemed to have a mental link of some kind. The dragons weren't just animals, they truly were connected to her in a unique way--or as she would say, they were her CHILDREN!

[The NZA]

George R.R. Martin flew to New York to 'beg' an HBO executive to make 'Game of Thrones' 10 seasons long, according to his agent

 

Quote

 

In a new book about HBO titled "Tinderbox," the journalist James Andrew Miller uncovered details about how the "Game of Thrones" finale came to be.

www.insider.com

Article is in the link but it's based on a upcoming book
 

• Haas said Martin flew to New York to meet with an HBO exec and "beg him" make the show 10 seasons.

"Dan and Dave were tired, rightfully so," Haas said in Miller's book. "They were done, and wanted to move on, so they cut it short and then negotiations became, how many seasons can we stretch this out? Because of course HBO wanted more."

Haas added: "George loves Dan and Dave, but after season five, he did start to worry about the path they were going because George knows where the story goes. He started saying, 'You're not following my template.'"

 

 

pretty sure i lost confidence sometime around season 5 too, yeah

[alive she cried]

It's sad because it really was a great show, it slowly slid into averageness interspersed with a few great episodes, but then quickly descended into actual crap.

 

I watched a couple of early episodes recently, and God they were night and day. If they weren't willing to finish it they should have walked away and let someone else take over 

[the division of joy]

On 5/20/2019 at 10:08 AM, the division of joy said:

  Reveal hidden contents

At least there's no lumberjacks?

 

Also.... "I guess the unsullied forgot that Jon was armed with two swords in the throne room"

Jokes aside, probably the best ending that could have been done with an extremely uneven season.

Two years on, fuck you. The ending was bad and you should feel bad for saying that.

 

I'm with Eamonn a bit. D&D wanted to move on to the star wars project they had lined up and end GoT (Despite HBO offering them more time and budget to do so) and it shat all over several years of good work by the cast and crew and good faith the fans had offered the show quite badly. 

 

I guess they kinda forgot what a decent conclusion looks like.