archangel Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 here are photos taken from Hogar Provincial de Ancianos "Marina Azcuy" in Pinar del Rio Province, a facility for elderly people. these from Hospital Clínico Quirúrgico Joaquin Albarran in Havana by the way...the little dark spots? They're flies. the baseboard in the recovery room a washbin in the orthopedic room a hospital in Placetas THAT, Jax, is the Cuban Health System in all it's glory. You can have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganny McVagflaps Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 No way! I saw the flick and the hospital in Cuba was all futuristic. Those pictures are a lie. Arch, you should watch the flick just to see Hillary get some. Fucking Hillary Clinton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 the hospital of Cuba that they show in the movie is a tourist hospital, not the kind the regular people use...much like the beaches they are not allowed to go to because they're reserved for tourists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Joel, every health insurance company in the United States has a required quota for their claims adjusters to decline, and bonuses are payed according to amount of claims denied. That is an inherently inhumane system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Again, I'm NOT saying our system is perfect and doesn't require change. But when people say our system is worse than Cuba's they desensitize exactly how bad things are over there. They also make ridiculous allegations that are flat out lies. Go on about how our system needs fixing: you're right. But make that comparison again and I'm going to call you out on how WRONG it is. It isn't even a matter of opinion, Jax. As bad as our system is, compared to Cuba's, it's heaven incarnate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 In fact, if he wanted to compare apples to apples, why didn't he take these people to the UK, or Canada, or France, countries comparable to the United States but with socialized health care? Why take them to Cuba, where the Government there will use this as a propaganda machine to make everyone think Cubans enjoy that kind of health care all over the island, when it's a blatant lie? Why would he willingly do this? He's either a tool, pro-Castro, or completely and utterly ignorant to the Health Care system in Cuba. If any of those are the case, then he had NO BUSINESS making this mockumentary seeing as he has no idea of the differences in the systems. it's like me making a documentary on Astro Physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 did arch just say france is comparible to the usa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Yes. France is a large, populous, industrial, First World country. Comparing the US to France for purposes of Health Care and the likes is appropriate. It's NOT appropriate to compare the US to, I dunno, Micronesia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Moore did go to Canada, and the UK, and France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Good. Then why did he go to Cuba? Why did he get the treatment there and NOT in the aforementioned countries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 because he's a fat idiot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 aside from stating the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 he thought team america were hiding out near havana somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 To prove a point. That it is a sad state of affairs when 9/11 rescue workers who are suffering from conditions that were a direct result of their 9/11 rescue work, fight for 5 years to get treatment in the USA and cannot get treatment, can go to Cuba and get the medicine and treatment they cannot get in their home country that considers them heroes. Also, he said something during the credits about how his true goal is to peeve Joel Cotera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 here's the problem with that statement, Jax. It's a sad fact that the heroes CAN'T get treatment: I'm with you there. But the ONLY reason their getting treatment in Cuba is because of the propaganda value it has, and they're getting it at the expense of the Cuban people, who DON'T have access to even a fraction of that health care. He could have done it in better, more realistic way than having to become a propaganda machine for Fidel Castro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 And to you, is it worth anything that because of Michael Moore, these 9/11 rescue workers will live many more years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Lindsay Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 so this breaks down healthcare quality, accessibility, etc. state by state. florida's not doing so hot. or texas. so hondonians in those areas, uh, try not to get sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jont Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 And to you, is it worth anything that because of Michael Moore, these 9/11 rescue workers will live many more years? OK, the question wasn't aimed at me, but as someone who someone who still thinks Jerry Falwell's a cunt, despite his supposed altruism, no. Michael Moore is a film maker, his films make him a lot of money. Patching up a couple of heroes could be a good investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Lindsay Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 Good. Then why did he go to Cuba? Why did he get the treatment there and NOT in the aforementioned countries? oh my fucking god...do you only read and respond to jax's posts? when you asked yesterday: Why take these people to Cuba of all places? i responded (also yesterday): correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't he originally go to cuba to get medical assistance for the people he brought with him at guantanamo bay (US territory) since they give the prisoners there very good health care, but they wouldn't let him in so they went to havana to seek treatment instead? sometimes i feel like i'm talking to a goddamned wall. buy you're right that hospitals are legally required to treat people regardless of insurance coverage. i believe the hospital that was in the film was also the hospital responsible for this as well, but i'm not positive. also, not to drag my boyfriend into this once again but he said he was born in that hospital they showed in havana, as well as his siblings. are those pictures from bigger city clinics and hospitals or more in the country areas, because our rural and urban clinics are a lot less clean and well-taken care of than our big city hospitals since there's less money funneled to those areas so i would expect to see the same thing occur in any country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted June 26, 2007 Share Posted June 26, 2007 sometimes i feel like i'm talking to a goddamned wall. should i mention, a wall without a sense of humour Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 And to you, is it worth anything that because of Michael Moore, these 9/11 rescue workers will live many more years? For them? yes. Overall? No, because while these few get better, millions are being oppressed and being denied basic human necessities so that Michael Moore can make an ass of himself and use these sick people to be propaganda tools for Fidel Castro. Moore is no hero. He's USING these people. so this breaks down healthcare quality, accessibility, etc. state by state. florida's not doing so hot. or texas. so hondonians in those areas, uh, try not to get sick. good info, thanks. I take qualms with New Jersey being ranked so low, btw. They have Dr. House, so that instantly brings them up to dark blue. sometimes i feel like i'm talking to a goddamned wall. I'm sorry. I wasn't ignoring your post, LL, but I didn't have an answer (seeing as I was asking similar questions) and was waiting for a difinitive answer to the question. also, not to drag my boyfriend into this once again but he said he was born in that hospital they showed in havana, as well as his siblings. are those pictures from bigger city clinics and hospitals or more in the country areas, honestly, don't really know: i'd have to check it out. because our rural and urban clinics are a lot less clean and well-taken care of than our big city hospitals since there's less money funneled to those areas so i would expect to see the same thing occur in any country. sorry, but I disagree whole heartedly with you. As bad and rundown as some of our hospitals may get, there's no way they'd ever let it deteriorate to THAT level of disgust, with flies, roaches, and human excrement all over the place. Those places were disasters. I can't vouch for Europe, though, seeing as I've never seen their hospitals. I'm curious if the Euros would speak up and tell us if their hospitals, even the worst onese, resemble those in Cuba. But again, the point here is that Michael Moore is being a tool for Fidel Castro, and he's using these poor sick people to make false statemetns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senshik Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 I feel like we're going around in circles here. POINT OF THE MATTER IS: Moore's film should serve as a wake up call to those not aware of how terrible our Healthcare really is. We need to stop fighting each other here and just come together to help the situation. I'm not political in anyway (as I'm sure I may sound naive on these topics), but I AM A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND OUR HEALHCARE SYSTEM NEEDS TO CHANGE! Any bills I see on voting days that have anyhthing to do with bettering our HealthCare, you fucking bet I'm voting for it. In the film when Moore's in France, he gave teh example that the French citizens WILL NOT STAND FOR ANYTHING THEY DISAGREE WITH THE GOVERNMENT and WILL PROTEST UNTIL REFORM. He made the point by saying that, THE GOVERNMENT IS AFRAID OF THE PEOPLE, while here it seems WE the people ARE afraid of OUR GOVERNMENT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 In the film when Moore's in France, he gave teh example that the French citizens WILL NOT STAND FOR ANYTHING THEY DISAGREE WITH THE GOVERNMENT and WILL PROTEST UNTIL REFORM. He made the point by saying that, THE GOVERNMENT IS AFRAID OF THE PEOPLE, while here it seems WE the people ARE afraid of OUR GOVERNMENT. France is also economically stifled because the government simply cannot afford to continue paying for their socialized way of life, and anytime they try to fix it to keep the system working rationally the students get up, riot, and burn the city to the ground. Moore's film should serve as a wake up call to those not aware of how terrible our Healthcare really is. Yea, sure. I just can't get around the lies, the using of people, the propaganda that it takes to GET to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 I take qualms with New Jersey being ranked so low, btw. They have Dr. House, so that instantly brings them up to dark blue. I find nothing unusual about this statement as most thing you say are based off living in a fantasy world. sorry, but I disagree whole heartedly with you. As bad and rundown as some of our hospitals may get, there's no way they'd ever let it deteriorate to THAT level of disgust, with flies, roaches, and human excrement all over the place. The Walter Reed pictures were pretty darn disgusting. Facilities with black mold, mice and cockroaches might seem acceptable for a quarter of all soldier injured in Iraq and Afghanistan to you, but not to me. And I would better those are rural clinic. But, like Lindsay said, Havana Hospital is not a 'tourist hospital', as her boyfriend and sibling were born there and probably got any treatment they needed there. Take note of it, as you are writing his biography now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jont Posted June 27, 2007 Share Posted June 27, 2007 One thing that's in the cuban pictures that arent' in the ones you posted Jax, patients. Can you say without doubt these are areas of the hospital that are actually in use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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