Sicko

[archangel]

And yet it's not having dire effects: our quality of life is high, infant mortality rates low, and the age projection growing yearly.

 

As for education, I still maintain that if I pay for my kid to go to another school, I shouldn't have to pay that tax.

 

But for healthcare, your arguments fall down flat. If 10% of the population doesn't have health care and yet we still don't have any health crisis other than obesity (which means people are eating well enough to get fat, especially the poor which have the highest levels of obesity) then I don't see a need to socialize and destroy the quality of medicine. Yes, insurance companies should be taken to task when they screw up and shouldn't be protected by the government: but at the same time, dismantling the system and setting up Cuba isn't a good idea, either.

[Drifter]

funny, what was it that Nick posted on the health care thread about us doing so well as compared to other nations

 

 

Fact One: The United States ranks 23rd in infant mortality, down from 12th in 1960 and 21st in 1990

Fact Two: The United States ranks 20th in life expectancy for women down from 1st in 1945 and 13th in 1960

Fact Three: The United States ranks 21st in life expectancy for men down from 1st in 1945 and 17th in 1960.

Fact Four: The United States ranks between 50th and 100th in immunizations depending on the immunization. Overall US is 67th, right behind Botswana

Fact Five: Outcome studies on a variety of diseases, such as coronary artery disease, and renal failure show the United States to rank below Canada and a wide variety of industrialized nations.

[TulipO]

(which means people are eating well enough to get fat, especially the poor which have the highest levels of obesity)

 

You're serious? Being full doesn't mean you're eating well. The cheapest shit on the shelves at a commercial super market usually has a ton of calories and low nutritional value. Also people learn things about decent nutrition in school, and if they are poor they are more than likely attending a public school. Morbid obesity is just as serious as starvation. Essentially when you are taking in calories and fat, but not nutrients, you are starving. It's just a slower death. What you eat affects the way you look, think and behave. It literally affects your mind. I don't think it's a coincidence that Americans are eating more processed foods filled with sugar to the nth power and now we have things like ADD, and every other person claims to be bi-polar.

 

I mean if you put shitty gas in a car, it will run, but not well, and it won't last very long. But do you see how education and health are actually linked?

 

Man arch, you're a shitty capitalist!! You don't even believe in keeping the working class functioning. You can't be a captain of industry with the means of production alone.

[La Lindsay]

oh arch, you ignorant slut.

 

 

 

This is from here.

US Infant Survival Rates Lower Than Most Developed Nations'

Featured Article

Main Category: Pediatrics / Children's Health News

Article Date: 09 May 2006 - 10:00 PDT

 

 

 

The USA has an infant mortality rate of 5 per 1,000, the same as Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and Malta. Of 33 developed countries, America is just above Latvia, the bottom of the group.

 

There could be many reasons why most other developed countries have better infant survival rates than the USA:

 

-- Health care provision in the USA is more patchy than in most industrialised nations. Health insurance in the USA covers a smaller percentage of the population when compared to other rich countries.

 

-- Maternity leave is shorter in the USA than in most industrialised countries

 

-- Wealth distribution is more evenly spread among most industrialised nations, when compared to the USA. The USA has larger pockets of poverty. Infant mortality among African-Americans is 9 per 1,000 - closer to third world rates than developed country rates.

 

-- Obesity rates among pregnant women are much higher in the USA than in other industrialised countries.

 

It is not possible to say that countries with a smaller population do better, as Japan, with a population of over 130 million is top; Germany, France and Italy are in group B (see list below).

 

For many in the USA - statistics which persistently show their country lagging behind others in health - this is an enigma. America is at the forefront of medical innovation, it has some of the most sophisticated equipment in the world, many of the best doctors from around the world end up working in the United States. So why can't it keep up?

 

When compared to the top of the group, Japan, with 1.8 deaths per 1000 infants, the USA has fallen a long way behind.

 

It is interesting to note that not one English-speaking country appears in the top 14. Is there something in the lifestyles of Americans, the Brits and Irish, Australians, Canadians and New Zealanders?

 

Below you can see the list of newborn deaths per 1,000 live births in the top 33 industrialised countries. They are grouped from A to F. Each group is listed alphabetically.

 

A - Japan 1.8/1000

B - Czech Rep 2/1000

B - Finland 2/1000

B - Iceland 2/1000

B - Norway 2/1000

C - Austria 3/1000

C - France 3/1000

C - Germany 3/1000

C - Israel 3/1000

C - Italy 3/1000

C - Luxembourg 3/1000

C - Portugal 3/1000

C - Slovenia 3/1000

C - Spain 3/1000

D - Australia 4/1000

D - Belgium 4/1000

D - Canada 4/1000

D - Denmark 4/1000

D - Estonia 4/1000

D - Greece 4/1000

D - Ireland 4/1000

D - Lithuania 4/1000

D - Netherlands 4/1000

D - New Zealand 4/1000

D - Switzerland 4/1000

D - United Kingdom 4/1000

E - Hungary 5/1000

E - Malta 5/1000

E - Poland 5/1000

E - Slovakia 5/1000

E - USA - 5/1000

F - Latvia 6/1000

[archangel]

You're serious? Being full doesn't mean you're eating well. The cheapest shit on the shelves at a commercial super market usually has a ton of calories and low nutritional value. Also people learn things about decent nutrition in school, and if they are poor they are more than likely attending a public school. Morbid obesity is just as serious as starvation. Essentially when you are taking in calories and fat, but not nutrients, you are starving. It's just a slower death. What you eat affects the way you look, think and behave. It literally affects your mind. I don't think it's a coincidence that Americans are eating more processed foods filled with sugar to the nth power and now we have things like ADD, and every other person claims to be bi-polar.

and all of that has to do with personal choice. People, regardless of wealth, have healthy food available to them and cheap prices. Salads aren't expensive, for example. A person can choose whether or not to eat healthy, which brings me to the major point:The biggest reason the United States has been suffering in the health of it's citizenry is not because of insurance coverage or lack-there-of (though it certaintly doesn't help). It has more to do with our culture of people who eat on the go very unhealthy foods and do little to no excercise. Our society has allowed it itself to become obese, and as such health problems emerge. Why is Europe healthier than we are? Look at them: they eat healthier food as a whole, excercise more as a whole, walk everywhere, etc. We know their health care system is having major problems and they are having problems with the quality of it, yet as a whole their people are healthier. The answer is cultural, not medical.Corilation does not equal causation: stats 101.Even LL's article (which turned me on so much. I love it when you talk to me dirty) gives a list of possible reasons, including obesity (which has nothing to do with healthcare coverage).

Man arch, you're a shitty capitalist!! You don't even believe in keeping the working class functioning. You can't be a captain of industry with the means of production alone.

Oh? Where did you get that idea from? i don't believe in keeping the working class functioning because I'm against Socialism? Give me a break, Comrade.I don't believe socialism works because...well...it doesn't. That doesn't mean I don't want a solution: I do, and have said as much every. single. time. What i'm ALSO saying is that Socialized Health Care will bring just as many, if not more, problems than we already have and cripple our economy at the same time.Yes, we need overhaul: we need to fix the system, but socialized healthcare isn't the way to do it.It Doesn't Work.

[Reverend Jax]

oh arch, you ignorant slut.

Man, did you know Jane Curtin turned 60 the other day?

 

Also, Lindsay, you are barking up the wrong tree with these statistics, everyone knows conservatives don't care about babies dying AFTER they are born.

[the division of joy]

does anyone think this is more for politics and not a movie forum?

 

fuck sake, its only a movie which again, moore probably lied out his ass about...

[Reverend Jax]

Firstly, we are talking about the movie because this is wholely the subject matter of the movie. If this was a thread on the movie Kids, talking about alienation and amonie would be warranted. IF this was a thread about the first Matrix movie, discussion about the nature of reality would be warranted. Secondly, I don't give a shit about opinions of the movie belong to people who've not seen it.

[archangel]

Secondly, I don't give a shit about opinions of the movie belong to people who've not seen it.

Not a relevent point, since the material covered in the movie can be found elsewhere, including the oppinions of the director and it's facts. Me watching the movie would be no different than me watching an interview with Moore where he explains his position or reading his website and checking all the sources he used. I've done most of the latter, but have been unable to watch the movie because i cannot find an illegal copy anywhere and i refuse to give that lying psuedo-intellectual a dime of my hard earned money.

 

If you don't wish to discuss it here over your false indignation, then fine; we'll argue this over in the health Care thread, where the same points have been already made.

 

Fact is: the discussion doesn't change one iota, so spare us your melodrama

[La Lindsay]

(which turned me on so much. I love it when you talk to me dirty)

 

i do what i can.

 

the article mentions obesity as a factor, not the factor. everything needs to be taken into account, including pre-natal care, povery, education, etc. there's never going to be a simple answer.

[archangel]

the article atually links possible factors, which means 'they don't know, but it could be a, b, c, etc'.

[Newtype]

2 years ago I got this sharp pain in my back then it started moving to my side then to the front. After a few years of putting up with the pain I went to the hospital. Did the paper waited a long time then told I had to stay overnight but I'll be able to go home the next day. Four fucking days later I'm still wait to go home and after asking for 4 days what the hell was wrong with me they said all I had was a few small kidney stone that I was passing.

 

So lets recap shall we:

 

Was forced to stay at the hospital Four fucking days for something like kidney stone.

 

Had a I.V hooked up to me at all time even if I didn't fucking need it.

 

Had to do a few test to see what was wrong.

 

Reason for all this: To milk as much money as they could.

[archangel]

I don't doubt it. That is a serious, existing problem that needs to stop.

 

But, again, telling smokers or fat people 'we're not going to treat you' is the other end of that spectrum.

[The NZA]

stoopid fat smokers.

 

Newt - were you waiting on an ultrasound? also, dont feel bad about the IV, that's pretty much standard for everybody. you prolly got saline dumped into you which is the fancy way of saying "water". fancy water.