The NZA Posted August 15, 2009 Author Share Posted August 15, 2009 that's an excellent gauge for womenses. aw man, awkward...i was talking Brian Wood. crap. what now? boy, that Crumb sure was influential, eh? something something Sergio Aragones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalHeart Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 Logan turned me on to Clowes (and other amazing shit), and I owe him a high five and a sandwich for it. And a smoke. And prolly a beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted August 15, 2009 Share Posted August 15, 2009 . . .and i really wanna get into David Mack's Kabuki. That's good stuff. I was into trying to get all the original issues back in the early 2000s, so I've got only parts of some of the mini-series. I really need to go back into the depths of my longboxes and find out what I'm missing so I can buy the TPBs That's the problem with Cerebus, you have to start at the beginning, and at the beginning it's just a poorly conceived Conan parody drawn like a bad impersonation of Barry Windsor Smith. You have to wade thru that to get to the gold, and if you don't , nothing makes sense... You know, you're not the first person I've heard that from. Which is why I've yet to bother picking it up. Maybe when I'm retired and have nothing to do but lay in a hammock all day I can start from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables Posted August 17, 2009 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I have the first volume of Cerebus which I acquired from my local library some years ago. I've started reading it a few times, and pretty much enjoying Conan in that blurry he-man way, I don't mind a poorly-drawn parody of it. The prevalent question in my head when reading it though, is Why an Aardvark? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 aw man, awkward...i was talking Brian Wood. crap. what now? Oh...that is awkward. boy, that Crumb sure was influential, eh? something something Sergio Aragones. You know, citing Crumb may be cliche, but I personally really enjoy the dude. Not really the 60's work that those "in the know" comicbook guys preach tho, to me it comes off as the work of a young guy just trying to shake things up, he hadn't really mastered that great style of his. He's clearly pretty drug-addled throughout that entire period, which I guess is what made him so popular, but for me it just seems like a waste. Plus the writing's not as honest as it could be. His stuff in Weirdo is when he really starts to shine for me. After he's bitter and a little pissed at being embraced and subsequently exploited by society. He just starts trying to get shit out of his system, and I legitimately think he doesn't give a shit what anyone thinks or if anyone buys it: he just has to do it so he doesn't go (more) crazy. It's more "pure", if that makes sense. He's undeniably a talented artist. As a human, he's kinda fascinating to me. Anyone who's seen that movie should be able to see what I'm talking about. Quite a fucked up upbringing, all the Crumb boys are clearly insane because of it, but he's the only one that has anything worthwhile to offer society. When he's around the other 2, he's suddenly the most normal guy in the room. At least he isn't sleeping on a bed of nails or living with his invalid mother and reading 100 year old novels while he tries very hard not to brutally rape. There's a weird sort of sweetness about him. Maybe it's just because he reminds me of my dad (god, I hope he doesn't read this...). As for Sergio, I liked Groo and Mad when I was a kid, but he hasn't done much for me in a while. I remember seeing him in San Diego in the early 90's, every autograph he did had a little Groo picture. He's got it pretty refined, he can shit one out in a few seconds. I'm convinced each issue took him about 20 minutes. Oh...wait...were you being sarcastic? I'm kinda slow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted August 18, 2009 Author Share Posted August 18, 2009 wait, not a fan of Brian Wood, then? honestly, i loved Demo, Local and DMZ are good too. i havnet read his earlier shit yet, but he was one of my favorites last year or so. honestly, i namedropped Crumb but ive been sitting on his movie for years - i do want to see it, i think part of me rebelled after i was starting to dig The Comics Journal (they do interviews like no one else, my opinion) but i was talking about it online with Darick Robertson and he pointed me to some of their amazingly pretentious shit, just really got turned off from that indie scene for a while by proxy, which i know is retarded but having read as much as you've, im guessing you can imagine. they had this one quiz that, for my college attempts to hunt down & try indie shit on ebay (miami's not strong for access to this scene like it was in say, San Fran - the comics museum out there's lovely), made me feel like a wizard fucking fanboy. actually, it said as much on the score: i was apparently a big spawn fan who foolishly thought Gaiman's Sandman was as good as comics got (you know what? in hindsight, both these statements arent that far off). I was to be looked at funny for not having had an indie artist sleepover or something...i recall spending fucking days trying to wrap my head around the notion that "the comic reviewer, in many ways, is more important than the creator himself." I still dont grasp the sentiment, clearly. Mind you, i agree with you & Warren Ellis that having to read 50 superhero books a month indicates something might be wrong with you, and i hate close-mindedness too, but ive no more use for elitism either, you know? anyway, i should watch Crumb. yeah, i tossed in Argones (i love spy vs spy, pretty sure he was on this for a bit?), i just liked him when i met him at a con. dude took time to autograph, sketch 7 talk about how, since i mentioned it was for jumbie & his guyanese brother, he loved guyana etc. he gave good fanboy vibes like George Perez did, not like that dickhead Josh Middleton. im so gonna either rename this the indie book thread or move this later on to one named that, im enjoying this though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) wait, not a fan of Brian Wood, then? honestly, i loved Demo, Local and DMZ are good too. i havnet read his earlier shit yet, but he was one of my favorites last year or so. I'm just not familiar with him, I guess I could Wiki and fake it, but I'm a big fan of admitting my ignorance. I will look into it. I was trying hard not to come off as elitist, I love capes and spandex. I just like other things too and I wanna talk about it, dammit. I don't like the sweater and pipe guys who think anything that isn't Spiegleman is some sort of drivel for children. Comics Journal, as cool as it is, employs a lot of those guys. If someone said to me "Sandman is the best comic ever made", I would completely respect them for it. It's up there and it's a totally valid choice, in my opinion. Now, if someone said "Avengers West Coast #72 is the best comic ever made" I...well...I don't know what I'd think. Probably something elitist and pretentious. You should watch Crumb, it's pretty fascinating. Even for people that hate him or don't like comic books. He's an odd man. Edited August 18, 2009 by Thelogan Prime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalHeart Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) If someone said to me "Sandman is the best comic ever made", I would completely respect them for it. It's up there and it's a totally valid choice, in my opinion. Then you hand them Preacher. Haha, I know because I've lived it. Trufax! Edited November 29, 2012 by Thelogan To add shings! And then remove shings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) Nevermind Edited November 29, 2012 by Thelogan I done goofed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalHeart Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) I am a curious kitten! Prolly better for my 20 Q's to be off this thread or TANGENT MAN will be in here. Edited November 29, 2012 by Thelogan I'm really sorry about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables Posted August 18, 2009 Share Posted August 18, 2009 (edited) Holy shit, this has turned into a fascinating topic- edit - until the evidence was destroyed by someone abusing his powers to prevent potentially embarrassing personal details from making his loved ones uncomfortable. Edited November 29, 2012 by Thelogan I really am so sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) But back to the task at hand: A carton of spite and a wedge of hate! Dairy products gone bad! I'd almost forgotten about these guys. Funny shit. I need a cohort to dress up as Milk & Cheese with me on Halloween and go around randomly punching strangers while screaming "Merv Griffin!" It would be the bees-knees. Edited November 29, 2012 by Thelogan I'm a terrible person Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted August 19, 2009 Author Share Posted August 19, 2009 see, after i discovered Bone, i tried Madman, Stray Bullets, Mage, Grendel, few others to varying extents, but i came across Milk & Cheese's 3rd # 1 or whatever at a con and loved them. those dairy products did indeed go bad. that's evan dorkin, right? i liked him here & on Cyberfrog, haha. dibs on milk for halloween Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables Posted August 19, 2009 Share Posted August 19, 2009 Is Grendel Indie? Wagner has a way higher profile than mosta these guys. The Grendel stories I've read kicked so much arse... Madman was also cool, and I have the first volume of M&C and loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 (edited) Nza, yup, that's the Dork himself alright. I'm totally down for letting you be the Samson of spite. You can be Milk and I will be Cheese. We will do as we please. Which will involve some sort of ruckus. I really dug the first 2 Madman trades, then it lost steam for me. I only have a few issues of Grendel, I enjoy them. I need to get more at some point. Someone needs to merge this with the indy thread or something. Edited August 21, 2009 by Thelogan Prime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables Posted August 20, 2009 Share Posted August 20, 2009 Shit NZA- Logan needs to be a mod in the comic forum. He's way more credible than... Shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted August 22, 2009 Author Share Posted August 22, 2009 fuck, that shouldve been a given, JZA....yeah, done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted August 22, 2009 Share Posted August 22, 2009 Oh wow... Thanks guys. I'll try not to fuck things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrizzle Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) In reference to Brian Wood. I'm just not familiar with him, I guess I could Wiki and fake it, but I'm a big fan of admitting my ignorance. I will look into it. Update: DMZ is awesome. I also propose that the term Indie Comics be replaced with the term Alternative Comics. Dave Sim is one of the very, very, very few I can think of that are legitimately independent. That is, they create and self publish. I have a serious problem referring to anything by Image or even Dark Horse as "Indie", regardless of the spirit in which it's done. "Alternative" would have none of these issues and would encompass everything that I think needs to be included. Yay or Nay? Edited November 21, 2009 by Thrizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Yay, good point. consider it changed. I still havent read "Fight for Tomorrow" but i loved Local, you ever get a chance to read that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrizzle Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I did not. I've just read the first 2 Volumes of DMZ (the first 12 issues). The only other thing of his I've got is Generation X 63-75...which I didn't even realize was him until I looked at his Wiki. He's definitely on my radar now, I'll be accumulating more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) Time for me to talk about R. Crumb's latest: The Book of Genesis. It wasn't at all what I expected, but what it is is pretty damn awesome. How do do you even approach a book like this? The kneejerk reaction from anyone familiar with the underground comic work that Crumb became famous for is going to assume that it's going to be an offensive bag of laughs at best, a crude sexist mockery at worst. It isn't either. Crumb admits that he doesn't think the bible is the word of god, but the further you get into this the more it all makes sense. If you remove divinity from the equation (which he hasn't done, by the way. It's a straight up adaptation), you get, in Crumb's words, "A powerful text, with layers of meaning that reach deep into our collective consciousness, our historical consciousness, if you will.” I had pretty much come to the conclusion that Crumb had retired from making comics, but no. He's been busy. Very busy. The lettering alone must have taken years. He's not out of his element either, there's a lot of nekkid people and sex in the bible, and this is depicted realistically, and not at all sacrilegiously (in my opinion). The result is 224 pages of meticulous drawings that place Genesis in a distinct time and place. It's a cartoonist's equivalent of the Sistine Chapel, and it's awesome. Crumb has done a real artist's turn here — he's challenged himself and defied all expectation. "I have to tell you, it took me a while to get used to. Crumb, after all, is one of those innately funny people whose mere way of expressing things makes you laugh. Even when he shows the men of Sodom threatening Lot in Chapter 19, there's something inherently comical in his drawing. Maybe he can't help it. Maybe it's me. But for the first 19 chapters, I experienced discord between image and prose. But by the 20th, I was hooked. I've read Genesis before. But never have I found it so compelling. By placing it squarely in the Middle East — and populating it with distinctly Semitic-looking people — Crumb makes it come alive brilliantly. You feel the dust, the heat, the anguish, the toil involved in crossing the desert. You even smell the lamb roasting. Crumb is at his best when he does people, not panoramas. The most intimate scenes are the most affecting. Reading Chapter 27, where Jacob steals Esau's blessing from their father, I actually cried. And by the end, I said aloud, "Oh, don't stop. What happens next?" ' You expect it to be sardonic, but it is not. You may expect it to be psychedelically spiritual — it's not that, either. Rather, it's humanizing. Crumb takes the sacred and makes it more accessible, more down-to-earth, less idealized. And this may be a blessing, or it may be subversion itself. Edited November 30, 2009 by Thelogan Prime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Am I going to do this...by myself? Yeah, do it by yourself! I'm slowly wrapping this one up, reading other books in between chapters. I'm loving how he approaches it as a straight up illustrating job and how dirty and jew-y everyone looks. This panel made me guffaw. My camera is terrible, so I cut off the word balloon because it was unreadable. We shall take their daughters as wives and our daughters we shall give to them. But only on one condition will the men agree to us, to dwell among us and be one folk; that every male of us be circumcised as they are circumcised. I love the looks on their faces! It's funny, but it's also the most rational reaction I can think of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 haha, nice. classic Crumb. im trying out one called Phonograph soon, really want to get back into Mack's Kabuki first though. i love his work elsewhere and have had it in queue for years now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 haha, nice. classic Crumb. im trying out one called Phonograph soon, really want to get back into Mack's Kabuki first though. i love his work elsewhere and have had it in queue for years now. Phonogram, maybe? The one about the mage who uses pop music for his spells, right? I read the Elastica issue, always meant to grab a trade. If it's Phonograph, then I've never heard of it. Do tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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