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4th edition D&D leaked, DMG,MM,PHB


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Ok, I've been reading it through, and I have a generally positive reaction.

 

Let me start by saying this: 3rd Edition was broken. Severely so. It was so broken that even Wizards had to respond with a 'Service Pack' which created 3.5, and even THAT couldn't fix everything.

 

The major problems of 3.5 were as follows:

 

1. All challenges, by necessity, had to revolve around traps or monsters. Any and all terrain or geographical challenges were quickly rendered crap by a third level cleric or a third level wizard.

2. There is absolutely no point to ever play anything other than a Wizard (or a scion if your DM is dumb enough to introduce them into your game).

3. If you were dumb enough to NOT play a wizard, you had better play either a Cleric or a Fighter, because none of the other classes are viable.

4. The Bard. That's all I have to say on this matter

5. Spells and Magic Items (so non-spellcasters can have the same effect) became the central point of the entire game.

6. Save or Dies

7. In the end, there are only two things you can ever do. 1. make an interesting character that sucks/is only good at one thing and sucks at everything else or 2. min-max your wizard to kill and survive everything thereby making you a defacto God and only further illustrating your companions sole purpose is to be your canon fodder.

8. Don't bother even trying to multiclass. It isn't worth it.

9. It's ALL about the Prestige class.

10. The Human is the Aryan Race: playing anything else is a waste.

 

I played D&D from 3rd ed, back when Haste was absurd, on through 3.5 and up to a point where it wasn't fun anymore. I made many characters, always bucking the trend of playing the all powerful wizard and had fun, mostly by weakening the wizard.

 

Now, this doesn't mean it wasn't fun: it was. But the problems with 3rd ed were ALWAYS present. Even with the Godly Wizard, he was only good up until he ran out of spells...then he was fucked. But lets be realistic, long before the wizard ran out of spells, you'd either be dead or he'd be gone. A smart wizard never died.

 

4th ed deals with all of those problems. You no longer have spell slots. You no longer have save or dies. You no longer have an overpowered wizard class. All the classes are interesting and viable, and anything not in the powers can be written off as a ritual, which takes time and money to accomplish. All of the races are interesting and strong, the powers are unique, and paragon and epic classes flavorful that add to the character but are not integral to it.

 

Ly, I think you're simply afraid of change: so far my only concern with 4th ed. is the dramatic dampening of magic. I think it's going to take some getting used to, but over all, it's a superior system.

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Dunno how much I agree on the 3rd ed stuff. I NEVER played a wizard, and only once played a Cleric and I both had a lot of fun and killed a lot of stuff. Hell some of the most fun I ever had DMing was in my Planescape 3.5 (or was it 3.0? Can't remember) where we had NO wizards for the bulk of the game.

 

Wizards do die REALLY fast without a meat shield ya know. I think you've been hanging around uber-min-maxers too long.

 

I guarantee you that D&D 4th will find a way to be broken too, every system is. It goes with the territory.

 

Still gonna check these out.

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because I've played with people who treat wizards like sorcerers, and don't know how to play wizards, and people who know how to play and take advantage of wizards flexibility, and on top of the min-maxers.

 

A wizard can defeat a fighter hands down.

 

a level 5 wizard and a level 5 fighter: wizard wins 10/10 times, unless the player is dumb

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because I've played with people who treat wizards like sorcerers, and don't know how to play wizards, and people who know how to play and take advantage of wizards flexibility, and on top of the min-maxers.

 

A wizard can defeat a fighter hands down.

 

a level 5 wizard and a level 5 fighter: wizard wins 10/10 times, unless the player is dumb

What? At the early levels, it's the fighter that has the advantage. Later on, wizards have the advantage. Even then a clever fighter can still take a wizard out.

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And of course if a Wizard is out of spells for the day he's toast on a stick. I'm not saying that they aren't powerful, they are, there's a reason that it's always wise to target a wizard first, but I never felt that DnD was so overbalanced towards wizards that it was pointless to play anything else. DnD isn't a competitive game by nature, so I never quite understood the my character could beat up yours deal.

 

Anyhow Assasin death attack kills that mage before he can sneeze.

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And of course if a Wizard is out of spells for the day he's toast on a stick. I'm not saying that they aren't powerful, they are, there's a reason that it's always wise to target a wizard first, but I never felt that DnD was so overbalanced towards wizards that it was pointless to play anything else. DnD isn't a competitive game by nature, so I never quite understood the my character could beat up yours deal.

 

Anyhow Assasin death attack kills that mage before he can sneeze.

Heh.

 

Of course, reverve feats helped with the spells per day thing.

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no, he wouldn't. he would save his last spell (teleport), leave, scry on his enemies, and kill him at his leisure.

 

Wizard AlWAYS wins.

 

When is he going to teleport when he is DEAD? Assassin has initiative automatically, assuming the death attack hits and the Wizard fails his fort save (likely) he dies.

 

Or just poison his food.

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it's called 'craft contingent item'.

 

A few scrolls, cast the spells, make the contingency, and you go from 'dead wizard' to 'raised wizard hunting assassin at his leisure'.

 

besides, that'd never happen to a good wizard.

 

Yes if you bring items into it than ANYONE in D&D can life for fucking ever. Not to mention doesn't a wizard need access to Res in order to not be dead? Oh right the scroll BS, (I agree DnD 3rd has tons of issues) I mean yes, in THEORY a min-maxed wizard will fucking kill the world if he had the right contingency, but those wizards only exist in the heads of DMs who are out ot make their party cry like little women.

 

Also toss that son of a bitch into an anti-magic field and watch him cry like the little woman that he is.

Edited by bishopcruz
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unless he magic jarred a creature, took over his body and used that instead of his own mortal coil. The anti magic field would release the, say, ogre among the party with the anti-magic field leaving the mage safely somewhere else.

 

the Wizard is the only person who can do all this BS.

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