gi joe or metal gear

[arc]

gi joe seems to be a dumb down version of metal gear solid i belive that the fans are not just ready but would like a grown up version of gi joe something along the lines of nick fury let me know are you folks ready for it?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[The NZA]

Hmm...couple thoughts here.

First off, i read Ennis' Fury right before new revamped G.I. Joe, and it really made Joe look like it was written by one of Jerry's kids.  The book even ripped a tad offa Metal Gear Soild, which was rumored to become a comic one day as well - it still stands as my favorite video game 'casue the series kept me interested in its storyline & gameplay for over 10 years now.  

While i wouldnt go with Artistic's original idea of just tossin Joes or Fury into the game's storyline, as Snake has developed as a character (tho i do kinda like his idea of tossin in Punisher as Max Payne), I think not only are the fans ready, they kinda deserve it - i mean, Joe isnt gonna be the shit with new comic readers; i assume were shootin for the same guys who watched it as kids, right? That'd be me & artistic's age, more or less.  Throwin us the same plot nowadays strikes me as kinda insultin, god i hope the new Transformers book dont try that shit.

I say do it, and do it right.  If nothin else, series like The Red Star and the first issue of Ultimates make me think its kinda crazy we dont have more real war books out there. I hear theyre revivin a mini-series of Sgt. Rock since Fury did so good, but a consistent series would be great, and Joe does deserve better.

[JunkerSeed]

As far as a new improved version of GI Joe, that H.A.R.D. Corps series I picked up at Megacon reads sorta like GI Joe if there were a whooooole lot more fuckin killing.  It's pretty cool, though kinda short but the way it ends is classic.  (**spoiler.... though the cover of the book kind of spoils it for you so whatever **) every character plus a couple characters from another valient series get massacred in a great one shot...  I should read the stuff I got at the con and see how the rest holds up.

[snake-eyes]

I don't usually agree with "artistic", but and :angry:

maybe be on to something. Just imagine if you will, a world war 3 book with G.I. Joes as your main characters, but I'm getting ahead of myself. I'm a big G.I. Joe fan, (mostly just a snake-eyes fan) and as one I can tell you that the current book it pretty bad in terms of story, but it is pretty to look at. In addition to this fact I constently wonder why cann't a great comic or cartoon ever make a worth wild conversion from one media into another. With these facts I can tell you Metal Gear will be a horrible comic just as punisher was a horrible game. In either case what makes them so bad is the lack of respect the creater has for the idea or the character. For example the people behind G.I. Joe, they will remain nameless, when they think G.I. Joe they think kiddy cartoon. Which will remain the case till someone comes along and gives them more credit.

[arc]

what is the deal with this  :angry: stuff eh what the hell is wrong with you o what i'll be nice cause you responded to my topic but i am not  :angry: this is not me  :angry:  i'm more like :pepsi: or :dcecil: thank you

[arc]

or but definetly not :angry: maybe :hmph: or :emotions: but not  :angry:

[arc]

hell i'll even take  :baa:  :sneaky: but not :angry: whore

[The NZA]

Uh....right.

Snake-Eyes - while you might be right on the typical coversion (game > movie, comic > movie, etc), that shouldnt be the ideal.  Metal Gear Solid could work as a comic, but only as a finite series, i think - stickin to the game might be a good idea, 'cause it was very cinematic.

As for the Punisher game...the old arcade one was a fun beat-em-up, but artistic has commented that a Max Payne style game would prolly work well....the point is, crossin mediums can work, but it must be done carefully....i still say X-Men was close (save its cheezy parts), but The Crow, The Matrix...even Blade are examples where the story is altered (sometimes a lil, sometimes a lot) to be more cinematic, and it's worked.  

As for video game comics...the probelm is theyre most often just ads for the game (Soul Reaver, Vagrant Story, etc), and others like Resident Evil are just weak: puttin mediocre writers & artists on in hopes the franchise name will sell the book.  

What i'm sayin is: it can be done, if the right people are on it & put the right amount of effort.  Dont let the crappy history of these conversions scare you away from future possibilites.

PS Fuckin ninjas.

[snake-eyes]

Yes, yes, yes you are so right but it is just that what brings my sarrow. The idea is so simple "Take it serious and it will take off and grow into its own", but saddly that's not how these big companies work. They say forget the little man that keeps us in fine clothing, we don't need him, but then thay go bankrupt and they wonder why. If they would give a little they'd get alot in return.

[The NZA]

Well, if ya really wanna get into it, the problem lies largely in the consumers, i think.

In video games, there's Acclaim.  Their usual tactic in consoles is to by up well-known licenses (Simpsons, South Park, etc) and put out utter crap. Thing is, the crap is 1) right before christmas and 2) whored out to every single damn console that'll take it.

Thing is, the game, despite its shit, sells like hotcackes, b/c the parents are uneducated consumers, simply see somethin they know their kids like, and buy it for em.  Result = a bunch of unhappy kids (or hey maybe theyre easily entertained) and fat profits for Acclaim's mediocrity.

Trick is, people usually keep comin back - me & artistic talk bout this all the time, and he sounds strikingly similar to your ideas here, except he thinks that those who abuse their market go under, when this is not true with a large enough market: yes, McDonals can often treat its customers like shit 'cause theyll keep comin to that one, 'cause its nearby.  If Episdoe II is utter shit, we all know we'll still be in line for Episode III to see how it all turns out; even if II is a giant Jar-Jar musical. Follow?  Yes, designers can listen to fans, and sometimes they can say "fuck the fans, they want the same regurgatated shit over & over" and put somethin really great out there, or they can, in this case, just say "fuck the fans, theyre buyin it anyway".

Shitty writers get buy on books like Batman and Wolverine this way, because large retail chains will still stack their well-known books either way.  Movies'll still be loosely based no matter how bad the books.

The secret? Support the ones that give a shit: Joe Quesada was an artist/writer before a Marvel CEO, and that man cares for his fans: issues challenges to McFarlane, prints out trades quickly, tries to give credit where its due, gets all the good writers/artists on and says do what they want with a book, etc....these are the people we need to back 100%, sadly not the folks that do G.I. Joe and such.  The best you can hope for in terms of change is support the good products with $ and gettin others in on it, and stayin away from the shit.  That's bout as much as we can do as consumers, really.

...fuck, that felt like a current events rant.

[snake-eyes]

Ahh yes, Star Wars. I belive that yes I will be in line to see Star Wars 2, but here's the thing. This time around I won't be watching it and 12am on eairly Thursday morning, or even getting the tickets weeks in advance. No this time it's when ever I get the chance to go. Big difference there. Now if I am your typical average fan who lived through most of the hype and I'm already starting to lose the hype how will my kids remember this film in a few years? Better still if my kids ever hear about "Planet of the Apes" do you think it will be the classic original one or the recent one? Star Wars is not at the level it should be but it is still entertaining. It went from being an all incompassing life altering movie to just a flick. No it won't affect lucass but it will affect his kids they could have grown up and taken over an empire at its peak, but no more. All I'm saying is that this sort of short handing the fans are reciveing is what kills first the character, second the company, and finally the legacy.

[The NZA]

Hmm...ya got somethin there.  

Usin the McDonalds example again, they may not go down, but before ya know it, they gotta deal with Burger King, Checkers, Wendys, WhatAburger, etc. Competition picks up when a former monopoly slips up, and id say Star Wars had somethin of a monopoly over the epic fantasy genre for much of my life, id have to agree with you & artistic that it might be nice to see Lord of the Rings bring it down a lil, wosrt that could happen is it forces the next chapter of Star Wars to improve in quality, eh?

Tryin to bring this back to comics....that would mean someone else'd have to pick up G.I. Joe or Metal Gear, so ive gotta ask: who'd you like to see on it?  Sure, i default say Ennis 'cause he's my favorite & handles military books extrememly well, but id like to hear alternatives.  What bout artists? I like Hitch, that guy from Ultimates and Authority, or maybe some of those great Red Star pepole.

Then again, you see what happened when a fan was left to redo the G.I. Joe figures?  That wasnt good either...

[arc]

i like ennis' war story with punisher and all but he needs a team mate of some sort to edit him a bit because he tries to put stuff where it shouldn't be example ennis puts in his God hate where ever he can even if it don't fit so it would be nice to see someone tell him hey guy you can't just pick up a book like marry popens and have here say f God and some a cigar right afterwards while the little boy goes out and disfigures himself that stuff might be useable in joe to some extent but not all the way.

[The NZA]

Well...

while the man has some themes he likes, i wouldnt let Preacher throw the "anti-god" one at him.  He's only ever really hinted at it again since in a single War Story issue, and it was very fitting.  Basin his stuff on his one big book is like sayin Frank Miller's just that Batman guy.  I cant recall another time he's really thrown relgion into it like that, so dont stereotype the man; most he's got goin in that dept is Just A Pilgrim, a rather pro-god book.

Disfigurements....yeah, that's in Preacher, Fury and Punisher, off the top of my head.  Its true, he likes fucked up villians and side characters, and as far as the disfigured villian, that idea predates disney, so i certainly cant say its his.

Did ya really read the War Story stuff? Again, my favorite is the D-Day Dodgers one, but then again, it was one issue, and he didnt have to keep the characters goin for a whole series or anythin.  He does that in Adventures of the Rifle Brigade, but that's distinctively a comedy.

What im sayin is, while im happy to see ya give the man enough credit to handle it, i havent seen him on a regular series much these days, outside of Punisher, and while similar, its a loner book....to keep a whole cast of characters goin (or at least the core ones) and largely workin within the cast from the old cartoon isnt up his ally & strikes me as kinda tough: how do you do a good war story where all the joes come out alive? How many good war flicks you seen where half the team aint dead?

What im sayin is, i can see a great war mini-series, but a regular one with a regular cast...i know youre gonna call me short-sighted or somethin here, but now that i think bout it, it sounds kinda tough.

Ive thrown around a few more writers, but none that really caught my eye...some of the new guys are badass with dialogue & anti heroes, some with more traditional....Grant Morrision (New X-Men,JLA, The Invisibles) seems to have proven he's good with teams, while Larry Hama (old Wolverine writer, think he does Batman now) used to be good for that kinda stuff.

So anyway does it have to be an ongoin series, or how bout a mini, maybe up to 12 issues?