Watchmen

[DA JUDGE]

More and more people i come into contact with are banging on about a series called The Watchtower (if i remember rightly). Is it really all dat? Is It available as Graphic Novels? whats the story, etc etc, etc. All info required, cheers! :approve:

[DA JUDGE]

I tell a lie, it called 'The Watchmen'. I think i was getting mixed up with someones suggestion for the name of this here posting section! :thinking: Anyway, what's the dat?

[The NZA]

Watchmen is a 12 part series by Alan Moore & Dave Gibbons, and along with Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns ushered in a darker, grittier, more realistic/human comic character in the mid 80's.

The premise is "Who watches the Watchmen?", and its basically about what a superhero team would be like in real American society.  Would they abuse their priviliges, or could they really make a difference?

Tho, sadly, the 15 year anniversary celbration last year or so was cancelled due to Moore's falling out with DC, the series is worth all the hype, and is heralded by many as one of comic's greatest stories.  I wont say any more, but read it soon as you can, its somethin of an essential.

[DA JUDGE]

Thanx IC! I was just this morning looking at it today in the comic shop.I tell U what, that is some size of book for only £14.99! Alas, unfortunately i am skint!!! Anyhows i'll be sure to get it when i have some money, Cheers again IC! :approve:

[King of Snake]

I second the recommendation, don't wanna spoil anything but Rorshach is one of the greatest comic characters EVER imho. :approve:

[The NZA]

damn, KOS mentions Rorscarch, and i have to look over the book again....cant say enough good things bout it.  Judge, you wont be dissapointed.

Random clip...

[Andy Varley]

Reading it again today, just fantastic

[DA JUDGE]

I am defo gonna get it soon. Also (i can't believe i've never asked this! ) Does anyone know of any comic series that are in any way similar to Preacher? Ever since it finished there has been a Preacher shaped gap in my life!

[The NZA]

Good news from Newsarama! And here i was holdin off to find the slipcase...

 

 

WIZARDWORLD LA: WATCHMEN GOES ABSOLUTE

 

Announced at today’s “Beyond the DC Universe” panel at WizardWorld LA was the next addition to DC’s very successful “Absolute” line this fall: Absolute Watchmen. The new edition of the classic Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons story is currently being adapted to the larger, “Absolute” format and recolored by original colorist John Higgins. The edition is being produced with the blessing of Alan Moore.

 

The edition will run 464 pages (and will also double as a blunt object if need be), and will be a complete reprinting not of the original series as published by DC, but of the Graphitti edition, a collection published by Graphitti in the late ‘80s that included 48 pages of extra material.

 

Speaking of the artist, we spoke with Gibbons briefly about the forthcoming collection. As many already confess to be, Gibbons is also a fan of the publisher’s “Absolute” format, and was thrilled when he learned that DC wanted top present Watchmen in this manner.

 

“As an artist, I love the Absolute books,” Gibbons said. “The pages have much more impact at the large size and the production values are first rate. In fact, many of the foreign editions of Watchmen were done at this larger, album size, so I have a really good idea of how it will look already.

 

“The Absolute volume also gives us the chance to digitally remaster the coloring and correct a few mistakes that have always bugged us. We're not going to redraw or change the look of the book in any way; we'll just bring it closer to what we had in mind all those years ago.

 

”The coloring is being exactly reproduced from the regular edition, then original colorist John Higgins is tweaking the digital files before sending them to me for final approval. Back in the day, John lived a few miles away from me and would bring color guides over to discuss with me. Today, he lives a few miles from DC and is in close contact with them on technical matters, whilst thanks to the wonders of technology; I get daily pages for approval.

 

”Everything is looking really good, crisper and more vibrant than ever and it's great to be working with John again.”

 

Gibbons won’t be adding any new material for the upcoming edition, but he will be designing the package, giving it an authentic feel. “The material that has only so far appeared in the Graphitti hardcover edition will include many sketches, designs, the original pitch, script pages and an ‘outro’ by Alan and I. Most of the readers won't have seen this before.”

 

As the 2004 Bookscan numbers attested (and agreed with years before), despite closing in on twenty years old, the collected edition of the 12-issue series continues to be a best seller for DC, and to the continual surprise of Gibbons. “All we ever set out to do was a comic book we'd like to read,” the artist said. “It's gratifying to see that others continue to do so.

 

“I think it's become one of those books that are recommended reading for people just getting in to comics. The fact that it's self-contained is a bonus, since no previous knowledge of continuity is required and it has a clear resolution.”

 

And of course, as part of that, Watchmen, to this day, continues generating revenue for its creators. Or, as Gibbons puts it: “It keeps selling, so we keep getting checks!”

 

For the foreseeable future, Absolute Watchmen will be Gibbons’ only involvement with the property, as he has nothing to do with the currently in-production film based on the comic.

 

“I have no involvement, although it's being made close by in England. I'd be interested to see what they're doing but I don't know that they'd want me hanging around making suggestions any more than I'd have the time to do so!”

[Jables]

Ooohhh prrretty... Thing is, the Absolute format shits me to tears. Size meaning I have to readjust my bookshelves just to accommadate the one huge fuckin' book(well two if I buy the Absolute Authority, but it never really dazzled me). Then there's the price...

[Silent Bob]

Wow, I've never even heard of the Absolute books...

 

Outta curiosity, what kind of paper do they print on? The barely-better-than-newsprint that my battered old trade paperback was printed on doesn't do much for the art or the colors. I guess it helps a little to give it that silver age/adventure comics feel, but I'd still love to see how it'd look on a higher quality paper.

[The NZA]

Skeet - youre right, i have to lay books that size on their side, like my massive Earth X hardcover. Id do it for this book tho.

 

SB - Not sure, i never thumbed through the Absolute Authority, i imagine it's high-stock paper, but ill find out. I remember when i got that Graphitti Designs "Gaurdian Devil" with the CD i was all happy, but i hated the paper. Ended up keepin the disc and attatching it to the marvel hardcover, i love those glossy oversized pages.

[Silent Bob]

SB - Not sure, i never thumbed through the Absolute Authority, i imagine it's high-stock paper, but ill find out.  I remember when i got that Graphitti Designs "Gaurdian Devil" with the CD i was all happy, but i hated the paper.  Ended up keepin the disc and attatching it to the marvel hardcover, i love those glossy oversized pages.

 

Agreed. I have the hardcover just for the signatures and the cd, but I got myself the paperback for reading because it uses the glossy paper and the colors are fantastic on that paper. Richard Isanove was coloring Daredevil back then and his colors should never be printed on newsprint, it's a waste.

 

Still, nothing pisses me off more than when they printed the last trade of Preacher on newsprint.

[Reverend Jax]

Still, nothing pisses me off more than when they printed the last trade of Preacher on newsprint.

Nothing? Not even...racism? You fucking bigot!

[Iambaytor]

Hello everyone, it's time to disappoint you all again. Spoiler warning, I'm not tagging this shit, if you don't wanna know don't read it.

 

Downloaded this on demonoid a few weeks ago finally got around to finishing it. I wanted to love this as much as everyone tells me I should. Alas, I cannot.

 

The book is good but it illustrates a lot of things about Alan Moore's writing that I hate.

 

 

1) Long drawn out narrative - This series tells in 12 books what could've been told in three. Granted, I know that a skillful writer can expand a good story and if most of Moore's bloated text had jack shit to do with the actual meat and potatoes of the book I would see the purpose in this. What most of it is is filler, I didn't like the "man on the street" perspective in Frank Miller's Dark Knight Returns and I don't like it here. I don't need to hear a news vendor bitch and moan about politics while some kid reads a comic book about pirates, and sure it would add substance if any of that ended up mattering, which leads me to my next point.

 

2) Most of the characters are unnecessary - The vendor, the comic book kid, the psychiatrist, Joey, the cops, all loose ends that were never tied. Why? Because Alan Moore wanted to seem deep and poetic. Even Rorschach, who is almost introduced as the main character at the beginning could be taken entirely out of this story and nothing would really change. Rorschach turns out to be the most badass interesting bit-part ever made as influences absolutely NOTHING! Oh you can tell me "but he put the idea of the mask killer in everyone's head" but they would've drawn this conclusion on their own. Rorschach is built up with a lot of potential that he never lives to see and is just given the ultimate fuck you by being blown up in the snow, his sacrifice was for nothing and his story went nowhere. Characters like Hollis and the original Silk Specter as well as Modok were important to the story and none of them get much page time. I mean 60% of the characters are introduced just so you'll be depressed when they die.

 

3) Obvious plot turns. Okay I had Ozymandias pegged for the villain by book 4, I knew who Rorschach secretly was by book 2, and honestly who didn't see the whole "I did it 35 minutes ago" coming from a mile away?

 

 

But don't let this dissuade you, I did enjoy Watchmen. I just felt it had several glaring flaws and that it was bloated with a lot of unnecessary bullshit, but then again if it wasn't it wouldn't be Alan Moore who has yet to write anything outside of V For Vendetta and League of Extraordinary Gentleman that I've enjoyed half as much as anybody else.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Skeeter
Your words are like nipples-they're lovely but really need to be covered up.

[alive she cried]

2) Most of the characters are unnecessary - The vendor, the comic book kid, the psychiatrist, Joey, the cops, all loose ends that were never tied. Why? Because Alan Moore wanted to seem deep and poetic. Even Rorschach, who is almost introduced as the main character at the beginning could be taken entirely out of this story and nothing would really change. Rorschach turns out to be the most badass interesting bit-part ever made as influences absolutely NOTHING! Oh you can tell me "but he put the idea of the mask killer in everyone's head" but they would've drawn this conclusion on their own. Rorschach is built up with a lot of potential that he never lives to see and is just given the ultimate fuck you by being blown up in the snow, his sacrifice was for nothing and his story went nowhere.

you did read the last page?

 

 

3)

Obvious plot turns. Okay I had Ozymandias pegged for the villain by book 4, I knew who Rorschach secretly was by book 2, and honestly who didn't see the whole "I did it 35 minutes ago" coming from a mile away?

i did'nt

 

 

for me watchmen is like godfather, people either love it or have'nt seen it, but eh,

there's always one

[Logan_Snikt!!]

Hands down watchmen is moores best work. in my opinion watchmen was much more than just a graphic... it is an experience as you explore each of the characters lives ups and downs.

 

- you dont mess with a guy like that

[Dark Kaniggit]

When I first read this book in 1989. It blew my doors off!! The heroes were so different and so conflicted.

 

Baytor your criticism is understandable, the long narrative is all about the

Doomsday Clock

 

. Its all about how in the 80's were were always "2 minutes to midnight". The small characters you spoke of are developed for you sympathize with them,

and when they are wiped out, it shows how fast and sudden the end can be.

 

 

Plus when I first read the book the

Soviets

were always a looming threat. It is very hard to read the book today and get that same sense of dread that Moore so perfectly illustrates.

 

It hard to criticize the Watchmen in a post Watchmen world. It changed alot of the rules that we are now using to judge it.

 

I recently reread it getting psyched and a little scared about the movie they are making. You can apply a lot of our current troubles in the world and the saturation of comic book characters into the mainstream of pop culture. To my pleasure and mild surprise alot of the material still resounds today. It truly stands the test of time a true classic, and an essential read!

[MetalHeart]

I recently reread it getting psyched and a little scared about the movie they are making. You can apply a lot of our current troubles in the world and the saturation of comic book characters into the mainstream of pop culture. To my pleasure and mild surprise alot of the material still resounds today. It truly stands the test of time a true classic, and an essential read!

 

 

Agreed! <3

[Iambaytor]

you did read the last page?

 

this I will spoiler tag:

 

 

Even that didn't quite feel fulfilling and left a lot to chance. 1 we assume this kids gonna read Rorschach manifesto long enough to get what it's about, 2 we assume that he's going to believe it, 3 we assume that even if he believes it that the newspaper editor will put it in. Even still, it doesn't tell the whole story, all that Rorschach's diary tells is that Ozmandius ran the company that was responsible for killing The Comedian and giving everyone cancer. So maybe he accomplished something, but nothing that's going to make any sort of big difference.

 

 

And yeah, I got the whole doomsday clock and building up all the extra characters and the sense of dread I felt quite prevailingly, that was well done and one of the things I enjoyed about the book you really could feel the end lurking on the next page. My problem is I feel that he over-dramatized the extras to make them more sympathetic, I didn't see normal people I saw characters made for you to feel for.

 

Honestly I recognize what it's done for comics and I do agree it's a must read for any comic fan, hands down. Alan Moore is a great writer, but if he would loose some of the pretentiousness that keeps getting in the way of his storytelling (and the pretentiousness is heavy even in the books I fully enjoy like V and League) he could get so much better and if everybody's saying its perfect there's no reason to change. The man has a love for filler narrative and deus ex's and I don't approve of either unless they're used in a good way, Dr. Manhattan was (unlike Swamp Thing, but don't get me started there) and in books like League the filler really set the mood for the time period and the story you were in. The black freighter was an enjoyable sidestory, it was also superfluous.

 

 

EDIT: And yes, I'm a bit concerned about how they could possibly make that into a movie as well. But I suppose I'll just have to wait and see, it's in the hands of a capable director so here's hoping.

Edited June 21, 2008 by Iambaytor

[Dark Kaniggit]

this I will spoiler tag:

 

 

Even that didn't quite feel fulfilling and left a lot to chance. 1 we assume this kids gonna read Rorschach manifesto long enough to get what it's about, 2 we assume that he's going to believe it, 3 we assume that even if he believes it that the newspaper editor will put it in. Even still, it doesn't tell the whole story, all that Rorschach's diary tells is that Ozmandius ran the company that was responsible for killing The Comedian and giving everyone cancer. So maybe he accomplished something, but nothing that's going to make any sort of big difference.

 

 

I agree fully with that, I mean there always exists the possibility that the kid might read Rorschach's diary, and posts its contents. But, you can also say that the world Ozmandius has created has grown to far from the world that the Watchmen inhabited, The New Frontiersman no longer has the political clout it once did. Or maybe the right person will read it in passing in the lunatic fringe newspaper and connect the dots. It is truly an open ending. Unlike most other books in movies, there is no "wink, wink, nudge, nudge".

 

Edited June 23, 2008 by Skeeter
mustbecleanmustbecleanmustbeclean

[Jables]

I can see completely where Baytor's coming from and I think more'n anything the hype killed this book. I didn't read it until 2002 when after 7+years of reading comics it was made clear to me time and again that all life in comics stemmed from Watchmen's vagina, and that anything not directly comparable was steaming afterbirth. I read it, scratched my head, put it away and went about my life and then picked it up another 6 months later to try and understand it. I don't pretend to be a scholar, and my book collection reflects this, but I like my books deeper than puddles. This was, while being shocking and great and really saying things that needed to be said, was Alan Moore jerking off over a dictionary for just over a year. Having read a reasonable body of the man's work I can say without much fear of rebuttal that his ego is his biggest fucking problem. He seems to think because he's ALan Moore he can waffle on in free verse about dog's entrails for the 20 minutes+ it takes me to read an issue of anything of his, and we should all be so damned grateful. League was fun, From Hell was even more fucking confusing but at least the central theme being fact-based meant he couldn't wander too far.

 

In short, I liked Watchmen but damnit there was too much poetry and it's over-hyped to a taxing degree.

[Dark Kaniggit]

This was, while being shocking and great and really saying things that needed to be said, was Alan Moore jerking off over a dictionary for just over a year. Having read a reasonable body of the man's work I can say without much fear of rebuttal that his ego is his biggest fucking problem.

 

Yep, Watchmen had me diving into dictionaries while I was reading it.

 

I agree Alan Moore has an ego he needs a dump truck to carry for him. I understand why he would not support the "Train Wreck" that was League of Extraordinary Gentlemen movie. I thought V for Vendetta was handled very well, they even bravely and wisely updated the storyline to make it resonate more with audiences. With the Watchmen it appears he is doing the same thing, not even giving the filmmaker's a try. The photo they released of the original Watchmen gives me hope.

 

When they asked Tolkien how he would adapt his books to film, he said he could not, he would leave it to filmmaker to interpret his work from one media to another. I do not think Moore will ever be satisfied with his adaptations.

 

He is a truly gifted writer, I do not see his ego come out clearly in his books, I see it in his interviews and musing on related topics, and his general behavior.

[Jables]

Man, I feel sorry for the guy, thinking he's Byche reborn and seeing some ratner-wannabe turn LXG into Batman & Robin. I'm more referring to his longstanding fued with DC over intellectual rights of Miracleman and an interview where he claimed to write off Marvel completly for not acknowledging his genius.

[Iambaytor]

Holy shit, we agree on something pretty much entirely! Plus someone other than me agrees that Alan Moore has his enormous head so far up his own ass that he can't see daylight. Even his best stuff isn't what I would call innovative. I mean League of Extraordinary Gentleman was a great story, but at the end of the day it's still just a run-of-the-mill superhero book with literary figures of the Victorian era and V For Vendetta but it's still Brave New World meets George Orwell. Everybody should read Watchman at least once because it is a great story and even flawed it's worth your time, you may feel pissed off and cheated by the end, but hey what are you gonna do?