Iambaytor Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 again, i dig the first 3-4 categories at least, but when you get into classic rock and stuff like Dylan...doesn't that usually count as "folk" or do you think that bleeds over? cause say, Simon & Garfunkel, i don't see how that'd be country by any metric. Folk music is like people who insist that Horror movies and Thrillers are different genres. They are not. Admittedly Country is such an amorphous creature that just about every song written and sang before 1980 pretty much fits under its umbrella. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What about someone like Tracy Chapman? I always identified her as Folk. Doesn't sound like Country to me. (JZA insists that it must be hiphop, but pay him no mind.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) you just say that because she's black She sounds like half of the country music stars I can think of right now. The most obvious comparison is Rascal Flatts. Edited February 7, 2012 by Iambaytor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 ...so you're saying tom petty, simon & garfunkel, stuff like that is country? i've seriously never heard that before, man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 ...so you're saying tom petty, simon & garfunkel, stuff like that is country? i've seriously never heard that before, man. Really? Because somebody clearly hasn't told the country stations because I've heard Freefalling and Don't Do Me Like That multiple times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alive she cried Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 What about Irish folk? One could hardly describe this as country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I find it adorable that Irish people don't realize that Blue Grass is just Celtic music with a banjo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alive she cried Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Oh of course, oh and Country and Blues are all just different forms of Classic Rock...that's the way it works right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Okay, let's do the country music family tree here: Celtic music > Bluegrass > Country/Western(I don't know the difference but I'm told it exists) > Nashvile Country > Country Pop/Alternative Country/Outlaw Country (this just means that the singers are drunk, out of tune, and sing exclusively about partying/drinking/fucking or all 3.) > Country Rap (vile) Somewhere along the line Southern Rock came along and it was a seperate genre but sometime in the mid-90s Garth Brooks came along and welded the two together. Then this happened: And then Kid Rock, Cheryl Crowe, Hootie (fuck your real name Darrius Rucker!), even fucking Nellie threw their hats in the ring while dipshits like Tim McGraw, Cowboy Troy, Carrie Underwood, Taylor Swift, and a whole cavalcade of other idiots turned country music into really bad pop/rock/rap music. You may have noticed this trend if you've been listening to rock and roll and rap in the last 20 years. I went off on a tangent there, my point? That's a bluegrass song (bluegrass is to country what hip hop is to rap) yet you could throw that bitch on a Lorena McKennitt album and nobody would bat an eye. EDIT: And blues is totally a prototype of rock and roll. Everybody knows that. Edited February 9, 2012 by Iambaytor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alive she cried Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) You're just making my points for me now, folk and country are different the same way that Classic Rock is different to Metal. Country is the next step on from Folk, it is not in itself Folk, and Folk is definitely not Country. Edited February 10, 2012 by alive she cried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 You're just making my points for me now, folk and country are different the same way that Classic Rock is different to Metal. You're aware that Classic Rock and Metal are both part of this crazy underground genre (you've probably never heard of it) called Rock 'N Roll... right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Really? Because somebody clearly hasn't told the country stations because I've heard Freefalling and Don't Do Me Like That multiple times. id play tom petty all day if i had that playlist do simon & garfunkel next, you're sidestepping that one! also, telling ASC "rock & roll" umbrella kinda proves the point: you're just tossing shit under one giant label of "white people music". there's clear genre distinctions, which is why so very many people can love one sound and despise another - yeah, they both use instruments and both take heavily from the blues, but decades of evolving sound doesn't just go away because of Ram Jam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alive she cried Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) You're aware that Classic Rock and Metal are both part of this crazy underground genre (you've probably never heard of it) called Rock 'N Roll... right? Is that not the point I just made? Oh of course, oh and Country and Blues are all just different forms of Classic Rock...that's the way it works right? Country and Blues combining gives you Rock n' Roll, which led to Classic Rock etc. My point is that from Country and Blues you end up with Metal, but that doesn't mean that Country and Blues are now Metal. The same way that from Folk you get Country, Folk does not then become Country. Edited February 10, 2012 by alive she cried Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I +1'd 'baytor not because of anything he said, but because of posting a Hernandez pic. I think it's a 'Beto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Simon and Garfunkel were soft rock which fits in Rock 'N Roll or as Wikipedia chooses to phrase it "Genres Folk rock, world music, soft rock" also, telling ASC "rock & roll" umbrella kinda proves the point: you're just tossing shit under one giant label of "white people music". there's clear genre distinctions, which is why so very many people can love one sound and despise another - yeah, they both use instruments and both take heavily from the blues, but decades of evolving sound doesn't just go away because of Ram Jam. WAT? First of all, "Folk" is a far larger umbrella because it means an entirely different thing depending on what part of the world you're referring to. When you said folk I knew you were specifically referring to American Folk and ASC's attempt to foil me was just to poorly conceived not to go after. But there are not clear genre distinctions. Why is Lynyrd Skynyrd Rock 'N Roll but Alabama is Country? Why is Alice Cooper (even the modern stuff) Classic Rock instead of metal? Why is Led Zeppelin not considered Glam Rock when it invented half of the genre's trappings? Why is Rapture consider a pop song when a majority of the song is (terrible) rap? Even Tom Petty and Simon and Garfunkel are both held under the "rock 'n roll" umbrella even though S&G sounds more like pop and Petty sounds more like country. Most folk music is country unless it's folk rock in which case it's rock 'n roll or folk pop (Like Coven or Donovan.) Folk isn't a genre, it's an adjective. Is that not the point I just made? Country and Blues combining gives you Rock n' Roll, which led to Classic Rock etc. My point is that from Country and Blues you end up with Metal, but that doesn't mean that Country and Blues are now Metal. The same way that from Folk you get Country, Folk does not then become Country. No it isn't. And no, because Blues didn't form country, Bluegrass did. Blues = Rock, Bluegrass = Country, the fact that they met up later and had flipper babies in the 90s and early 00s has nothing to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 oh, OF COURSE you'd have to bring your member-chasing-off glam rock argument up again (american, yeah) folk's a genre but i agree it's another ambiguous one. and exactly; simon & garfunkel can be solf rock, folk etc but it's not country. your multiple examples of splitting hairs are taken, but if you imagine this as a venn diagram, you're still going to see where your giant assumption of all things classic rock = country doesn't work; no one's gonna argue Lynyrd Skynrd, Marshall Tucker Band, even George Thorogood (sp?) and any other southern rock act, but your argument lumps Beatles, Doors, Zeppelin, Jimi etc into country where they clearly don't fit. ASC's almost hegelian argument on synthesis kinda followed your logic, too - hip-hop comes from the blues, jazz, funk and several other genres, but it's not those things. again, venn diagram here: they're entirely different circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 oh, OF COURSE you'd have to bring your member-chasing-off glam rock argument up again (american, yeah) folk's a genre but i agree it's another ambiguous one. and exactly; simon & garfunkel can be solf rock, folk etc but it's not country. your multiple examples of splitting hairs are taken, but if you imagine this as a venn diagram, you're still going to see where your giant assumption of all things classic rock = country doesn't work; no one's gonna argue Lynyrd Skynrd, Marshall Tucker Band, even George Thorogood (sp?) and any other southern rock act, but your argument lumps Beatles, Doors, Zeppelin, Jimi etc into country where they clearly don't fit. What the fuck are you talking about? I said Simon and Garfunkel isn't country, it's folk rock which is rock. And Southern Rock I would generally file under rock except in rare examples like The Georgia Satellites or some shit like that. But classic rock is rock, why do you and ASC keep coming back to this argument I've never made? My examples were showing the inconsistencies in your "clearly defined genres" argument. Folk is a genre like Gospel is a genre it's a certain sound that's applied to a variety of different musics it was mixed with rock music in the 60s and 70s, it was mixed with pop music in the 60s all the way through the 90s, but when it doesn't have a - connecting it with another genre and it's not from the Balkins or some shit it's just country music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HypnotizinChikns Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Best country artist in U.S. since Cash kthnx bi. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0vk5SGmw3w http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fhur6g8_BM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nBt_e9tzdQ also FOLK IS DIFFERENT FROM COUNTRY. Some would say Nico is "alternative country" but she's not folk...Simon and Garfunkle could be "singers and songwriters" or "folk" but not country. Edited February 10, 2012 by HypnotizinChikns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 What the fuck are you talking about? I said Simon and Garfunkel isn't country, it's folk rock which is rock. Folk music is like people who insist that Horror movies and Thrillers are different genres. They are not. Admittedly Country is such an amorphous creature that just about every song written and sang before 1980 pretty much fits under its umbrella. that last post here is what has caused myself, presumably ASC and Mr. West to argue genre distinctions with you for the last page, if you were wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HypnotizinChikns Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 kay. folk- personal messages from the artist featuring a political statement that is intended to spread a message of songwriters beliefs or personal political views. country- an 'americanized' (i use said term loosely because even pie which has been around long before the U.S. has been somehow tainted) since song or artist that speaks of one's own personal experiences that hopefully will relate to an audience that also has been through or is going through the same emotions or beliefs with the distinct "twang" in guitar chords and vocal style that is known as american (as in united states). Country-simple, local, down home, and so on. Folk-political Country-emotional and commercial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 interesting...so you think the line falls on content, specifically political? i can see a lotta that in folk (not sure all of it) but what about when toby keith or other dues talk politics in country? surely that's not folk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 that last post here is what has caused myself, presumably ASC and Mr. West to argue genre distinctions with you for the last page, if you were wondering. Sarcasm and hyperbole, you should know that by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 you italicize so little, i never know. plus, you know, like you said ASC threw you that irish curveball, so my meters were all fucked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Fair enough. Yeah, that was me granting you (or him? I don't recall) that what's come to be known as country is extremely (probably a bit too) broad. Just remember this simple formula: If I say something outlandish but never bring it up again, repeat it, or defend it then I was probably exaggerating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cathy Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Edited February 17, 2012 by Cathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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