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Punisher: War Zone


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Thought there was already a thread on this, couldnt find it.

 

anyways

 

this movie kinda eh ... you know...

 

SUCKED ASS!

 

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Dominic West will be the reason I boycott any future movie with him in it.

 

"From nowwh ohwan you cwuall me Jig sawuh!" (tanslates to how he pronounced "from now on, you call me jigsaw)

 

He had the Beowulf overacting likeness to it... "O'im hea' to kill yer mohnstah!"

 

well, from now on, I call you the shittiest fucking piece of shit that owes me 103 fucking minutes of my life back.

 

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Oh, and remember good ol' Percy Wetmore from the Green Mile? Yea, Doug Hutchison ... well apparently he and Dom met up on a sleazy bar one night and discussed hey they both could make the new punisher movie a fuck all piece of shit for Signal. Doug decided to act like a effing cannibal monkey and his scrawney fat boy eating self wants to make an army... of fucking idiots.

 

========

 

all in all, take it from a Punisher lover...

 

STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM THIS SHIT FILM.

Edited by Signal08
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I think using a template at all was where it fell flet, it kept trying to be Garth Ennis and Taxi Driver at the same time and fell short of both.

 

I disagree. A straight up WB,F adaptation would have been immensely entertaining. They didn't have to make him all angst ridden, the whole point of Ennis' 1st Punisher book is that you can't reasonably justify the things he does, so you might as well just have some fun.

He kills criminals because he hates them.

I don't give two shits about reaping vengeance for his murdered family. Gay gay gay gay gay.

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I saw the Ray Stevenson one. See above for my awesome review. Nick will love it because it mashes together about 3 different arcs from the Max title, draws characters from all over the place to gather in a circle & watch Titus Pullo ride a mechanical bull for 40 mins, then he proceeds to kill everyone in the goriest possible fashion.

 

I think he'll especially love McGinty the tough-as-coffin-nails-black-Dubliner being turned into a black irish gang of parkour-iers ala Mirror's Edge.

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I didnt mind Stevenson at all, in fact I liked the way he carried himself... its the 2 that I mentioned that made the movie silly as fuck. Dominic West and Doug Hutchison

 

The fat ones mooiiiine! Oh shut the fuck up! You can pull of a crazy guy sure... but you CANT pull off a bad ass, so dont try.

 

I bash my head into mirrors brotha so you dont have to see that you arent gorgeous! I am a bad ass that is gunna git the Punisha and eat his testicles.

 

The villians are the ones who jacked up this movie.

 

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For the record, I liked the first Punisher (Jane). It was done right, just most of you dont appreciate it for that it is. It was Frank Castle becoming the Punisher. His trials and tribulations as to how becomes the P man, due to the recent death of his family. Punisher: War Zone is him 'established' as the Punisher. If you watched the Jane one and expected Punisher bad assity from the get go, then yea you are gonna be let down. It was a good movie though, Jane played a good Frank Castle... Stevenson does a pretty good job at playing the Punisher. see the difference?

 

War Zone should have been so much more bad assity, and Janes flick was just the right amount, to the lesser side.

 

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they lead you to believe that they are building up this army to take out the Punisher... yet they go to a gang banger , oriental, and what... a russian pub? Say, eh! wanna get back at the Punisher? (with the american flag in the background) then all of the sudden, viola! they are all in a shut down hotel that juuuuust happens to still have power at the flip of a switch.

 

Here is the flick for you... good guys are tolerable, and the bad guys arent. The End.

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They didn't have to make him all angst ridden

 

Well now you're just talking crazy, Ennis has never writte nhim any other way. And he didn't have to avenge his family? That's kinda... kinda the point. He's not the Punisher because he just hapens to be out of his gourd.

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Well now you're just talking crazy, Ennis has never writte nhim any other way. And he didn't have to avenge his family? That's kinda... kinda the point. He's not the Punisher because he just hapens to be out of his gourd.

 

Yeah, alright. I'll give you that it was an origin story, and avenging his family is part of Punisher's origin. I just never fully bought that as motivation, it doesn't hold water. I understand wreaking vengeance on the people who did it, but why the hell would that correlate into murdering random cocaine dealers? Unless, you know, you're bugfuck crazy and the loss of your family is just an excuse to go out and be bugfuck crazy.

 

That's the whole point? Hardly. I think he got over it a long time ago and now he's accumulated a lot of other reasons to go a-murderin'. I don't see Ennis writing many scenes with Punisher crying in the rain and raising his fists to the heavens as he drops to his knees in overwhelming despair.

 

So sure, it's part of the character, but for me it's the weakest part. People shouldn't bother wasting time trying to justify Frank's actions; he's a terrible, terrible man. It's starting to sound like War Zone is more the kinda Punisher movie I want to see.

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You're right there was a gap to bridge there between the Paul Kearsy aspect of his personality and the Travis Bickle aspect. And this much maligned suicide scene toward the end of the movie was it. As far as Frank concerned he was going to kill the people responsible for his family's death and then he was done, he blows his brains out and gets his Gladiator moment with his wife and son in the dramatically lit wheat field. Cause after all, what does a man out for revenge have left once he's got it. But just before he pulls the trigger he realizes "you know, I'm not the only person this has happened to. And I'm certainly not the last. This can happen to anybody else but God knows not a lot of people are going to have the balls to do what I just did. So instead of offing myself, why don't I go do what nobody else can bring themselves to." He figured he was so far gone there was no hope for him anyway and there was no sense putting anyone else through what he had gone through. Thus the final scene of him standing on the bridge with "Frank Castle is dead. I am The Punisher." This is the only time that bridge has ever been gapped by anyone, Ennis included. Ennis' closest thing to an explanation was that Frank was always a crazy fucker of Ben Willard proportions and his family just happened to get killed which snapped him from family man to vigilante extraordinaire. It's sloppy writing and it disappoints me that Ennis would use something so weak as a catalyst for a character he breathed so much characterization into.

 

As for the angst I once again cite when the dickhead mob boss dug up his family and pissed on their bones on video for the whole world to see. Well naturally he's going to go kill the fucker, right? Fuck no, he's going to throw a fit and start killing ever person who so much as jaywalks or litters until the police bury his family's remains because he can't concentrate on the task at hand until they're reburied. Even after the New York PD give the baby his fucking bottle he's so out of it that he almost takes a sniper bullet to head if not for some throw-away character from the first arc showing up to save his ass. Honestly everything that people complain about in the 2006 movie was done at least one time in Ennis' Max series including a boatload of angst that kept popping up periodically and even the blackmail aspect that is so much maligned even though that was one of the more mean-spirited and twisted things he did in that movie. People prefer the tactical intelligent Frank but seem to hate it when his tactics include anything other than "shoot the bullets until they all dies."

 

You don't need to justify his actions, you just need to explain his motivation in a way that comes across halfway realistic. Frank's transformation as told by most people makes about as much sense as saying he's the Punisher because he was bitten by a radioactive Charles Bronson. I prefer Frank Castle as a character, not a hulking sociopath with an M-16 balanced on the end of his erection and veins coming out of his neck. It's a character template that's as ripe for parody as the more over-the-top versions of Wolverine and Batman.

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*grumble grumble*

 

Fine.

 

I'm all for mean-spirited and twisted doings, I don't just want to see frank busting out some 30.06 double-action Guglielmo reamed free-fire blow back assault rifle with Kirgiz-Pittman deflected silencer, or a 40-odd-7 Belefescue rim-packed sluice-grated close-action revolver with double-hipped Andrews hollow-nose ammo feed. I would be bored to tears if every problem was solved by a Hama-Grell cinchbore switchback magnum with a stoked yamaha DX-7 flanger. Some ingenuity is always appreciated.

Like when he pulls out his 3.55 millimeter slip-streamed bitmapped Callahan-Siegel fieldpice THEN attaches the double reverse blowback overhead-cam Orzechowski ammo feed, the 300 dpi modified Pendleton underslung file damper and the digital IR-UV-VHS Kramden-Norton cross calibrated stereotopic gunsight.

 

Special cool points and a shiny No-Prize to anyone who knows where that's from.

 

Alright Baytor...you made some good points. I still don't completely buy it. Oh, he's such a great, chivalrous guy he wants to avenge all the other people who have been wronged because he cares so much. Horseshit. He's a murderer, he liked what he was doing, he acquired a taste for it and he doesn't want to end it all. He's justifying it to himself. I don't have a problem with that, but I would prefer that he is portrayed as the clearly unstable nutjob that he is.

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Frank Castle was special forces... Frank Castle was the GD Feds... as in Ima bust up your coke cartels. As in his entire family from his parents to his bros and sis's to his wife and kids killed by cartel mother fuckers. So, I'd be a little hell bent on cartel dopers from any which angle. If someone killed my pops, I'd prolly go all punisher like and do some righteous overkill... let alone my entire family man. I dont think I quite get your "I dont get it" angle.

 

He was already a crime fighter. The legal system failed him and didnt pursue the criminals effectively bc "they had nothing on them". The system proved inadequate, therefor, the Punisher set out to right some wrongs.

 

some lines to help you better understand.

 

 

I leave this as a declaration of intent, so no one will be confused. One: "Si vis pacem, para bellum." Latin. Boot Camp Sergeant made us recite it like a prayer. "Si vis pacem, para bellum - If you want peace, prepare for war." Two: Frank Castle is dead. He died with his family. Three: in certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In order to shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law. To pursue... natural justice. This is not vengeance. Revenge is not a valid motive, it's an emotional response. No, not vengeance. Punishment.

 

Those who do evil to others - the killers, the rapists, psychos, sadists - you will come to know me well. Frank Castle is dead. Call me... The Punisher.

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It's not that he's a great chivalrous guy. He's a twisted sick pile of shit, and he knows it, but he also knows that a twisted sick pile of shit is the only person that can do the kind of thing he does. It's not the sense of justice he does it for, it's the hatred of those who hurt innocents. He can be portrayed as unstable, and has, without walking the thin line between gritty and campy. He doesn't justify his actions because he knows there is no justification, he knows what he does is evil and horrible and disturbing but he also knows that what he does serves the greater good. That was one of the details I liked about Ennis' Max series where he was reflecting on all the fucked up shit he did in the human trafficking arc and knowing full well that he was as much a monster as any of the people he murdered and not giving a shit. It's my firm belief that the Punisher's final story would involve him blowing his own brains out because he's finally accomplished what he's set out to do as best as he can. (Both The End and Punisher Kills The Marvel Universe showed this notion as well.)

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I think my last post clarified a lot of things for those who dont 'get him' but I am with bay on this, I think in the end, he caps himself. 1, he isnt gonng want to rebuild a family ... and 2, hes a fugative, so he cant exactly roam around freely now that he dicided that he doesnt want to kill every foe out there anymore.

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punisher2.jpg

-sniffles- I... I am so ugly!

 

090316doug-hutchison1.jpg

OHHhhhh, doooont woooory broootha , you woooont have to looook into anotha mirrooooor as loooong as OI'm around!

 

 

punisher_war_zone14.jpg

good, lets bash some faces in... and you can eat them if you want

 

punisher_war_zone01.jpg

good, cuz I hoooongry!

 

240px-Mirror_Spock.jpg

why the fuck did you put me, the goatee spock, in this skit Sig?

 

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don't question me fucker, I'm clearly making fun of this shit flick.

 

werd.jpg

nuff said

 

punisher-war-zone.jpg

oh yea, there is some of me in it too... I just wish I coulda killed jigsaw and looney bin jim like... minute 8 instead of minute 103

 

fuckers

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ugh. quiet aside from not having yet seen the flick...

 

i hate the "everyman" approach to the punisher. no, being special ops/a cop/whatever during your life would not make you the fucking punisher. you might get your revenge, and be done. you wouldnt wage war on crime for decades to come - what i love about ennis' take (dont listen to baytor's cries of emo this or whatever!) is that the book Born sets up Castle as a fucking sociopath long before his family's taken down. He wasnt well before the incident; he wasnt some "warrior who wanted peace" type of thing, the same hollywood bullshit way they sold William Wallace in Braveheart. he was a fucking monster, and monsters dont need many shakeseparean reason to transform into things like the punisher, cause theyre already near the edge before shit went down. to me, its pivotal to the character to understand that: the punisher thomas jane played, to me, wouldve taken his revenge and gone home. that's not the guy. I'm hoping this film, faults aside, is more that guy somehow; the one who doesnt have or want anything else; the one (in ennis' words) "if you put him in prison, its just like putting a kid in a candy shop. he stops when he dies, that's it."

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Oh come on, Born was nothing more than Ennis taking the plot of Apocalypse Now, scratching out Ben Willard and writing in Frank Castle in its place. If he was that fucked up to begin with he never would have been such a wonderful family man he was portrayed as, he would've always had some aspect of being the Punisher in him. The version in the 2006 movie had that crazy streak in him (if you saw the Desert Storm intro) but he was still one good push from the edge and that was what made him more believable.

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It lifted a lot from Apocalypse Now, no dobut. but it worked, and again, its important for the character: thomas jane sucked (his character, not the actor) cause his punisher flick was a revenge one. that's where id think a nomral man with his training'd go: kill those responsible, uh, once youre done moving fire hydrants or whatever bullshit that was.

MAX punisher is a two-dimensional sociopath who's basically been attempting criminal genocide for so many decades, you cant call him a mass-murderer as much as his #s would make him a fucking conqueror.

 

i dont buy the "normal guy does this till he's watching matlock and just forgot to load his guns" thing one bit, but someone a bit unhinged prior makes complete sense.

 

If he was that fucked up to begin with he never would have been such a wonderful family man he was portrayed as, he would've always had some aspect of being the Punisher in him.

 

(again, going with the books here) weve never really seen how frank was with his family. in the jim lee mini in the day, you got a few panels of frank smiling while his kid flies a kite and his woman's at a picnic basket getting things, before they eat it. im not necessarily saying frank was smiling and thinking "that kite reminds me of those holes i put in those gooks way back, good times." or worse yet channeling modern-day Frank Miller and thinking "WHORES WHORES WHORES WHORES" etc but, yes, i thought the point of Born was to show that MAX Punisher - again, i think hands-down the best/canon take on the guy - was just that; he did have some aspect in him beforehand.

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If I may step in- To look at Castle the Family Guy, look also to the Saint Of Killers & Old Man Logan(alright, maybe notsomuch Logan). These are born & bred killers that took solace in family. When that facade was taken away they went back to their primary instinct(I harbour deep hopes for OML to get buck wild).

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If I may step in- To look at Castle the Family Guy, look also to the Saint Of Killers & Old Man Logan(alright, maybe notsomuch Logan). These are born & bred killers that took solace in family. When that facade was taken away they went back to their primary instinct(I harbour deep hopes for OML to get buck wild).

 

Okay but they too were fictional chracters. The point is a person with severe homicidal tendencies are one of two ways, they're either hard drinking wife beating abusive cunts (which sadly happened to a lot of kids when they got back from 'Nam) or the "he was so quiet" type which just supports my point that he was one good push away from the edge.

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  • 1 month later...

this movie was super uneven. and probably has the worst editing ive seen in a long time cause i never notice editing. it reminded me of the camp batman films alot also. and, i'm not trying to sound sexist, i just think its ironic this directed by a woman. the 'family vengeance' plot device was actually used more in this i think..... damn the more i think about it, the worse its getting. :sad:

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