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Trolls @ Hondo's


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This whole "troll free zone" reminds me of Hampsterdam. It'll all end in tears.

 

The Wire references arent just class, they're appropriate in this context. well played, clerks.

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I have no idea why, but this is the first time I've seen this thread. A few thoughts:

 

Firstly, the Mickey Mouse analogy is ridiculous. Mickey Mouse does not have rights in the sense that if he was murdered in a cartoon, we wouldn't have a real trial for his murder. However, in another sense, Walt Disney, who is a real person, has the right to speak through Mickey Mouse, the same way he has the right to speak as himself. If Walt Disney were allowed to speak in the public square in support of Nazi Germany, then he would also be allowed to do so in a Mickey Mouse costume (Walt Disney was actually the original voice of Mickey Mouse, so this analogy is jellying really well in my mind).

 

Pink Hulk is no more a real person that archangel. Joel is a real person, but archangel is a username. The only difference between archangel and Pink Hulk is that one of those usernames has publicly expressed his identity, and one has chosen to remain anonymous. Never in the history of any nation where free speech is allowed has there ever been a law against publishing something under a pseudonym or publishing anonymously. In fact, there's a long tradition of it and it is generally a well-regarded right. Whether or not you think troll's contribute positively to hondo's, there is nothign wrong with anonymity.

 

I do not believe the "higher" forums should be cleansed of such things, because I believe Hondo's should, in nearly all cases, be open to staying humorous and light hearted. Like I've said before, there are exceptions when something is emotionally sensitive or the mood is particularly somber. If a Hondonian were to miscarry, or if someone were in a serious accident, or recently lost their mother to cancer, clearly an insensitive troll would not be appropriate. But if Joel makes a thread about how Obama is a Socialist, and a Karl Marx troll came in and posted "I heard what you were saying. You, you know nothing of my work! You mean my whole fallacy is wrong. How you ever got to moderate a forum on anything is totally amazing!" that would be funny, and entirely appropriate.

 

In my opinion, mod powers should be used to clean up, for do some organizing that can't be done by regular people. For example, double posts should be deleted. If a thread about religion is accidentally posted in the politics forum, it should be moved. These are things regular members can't do, and shouldn't be given the power to do, but still need to be done. That is the responsibility of the mod. To take posts you find distasteful, or rile you up personally, and crap shack them because you don't like them, is not the role of a moderator, and it's specifically not there role to make up rules then enforce them at their own discretion. A moderator should rarely ever move a post against the poster's wishes. A moderator is not a newspaper editor. It is not their job to regulate content. A newspaper editor is responsible for receiving things other people create (write, draw, photograph, etc), and deciding whether or not to publish it, if he/she decides to publish it, then he/she decides where and when to publish it, and also whether to publish it in it's submitted forum, or in a modified form. That is not the role of a moderator on Hondo's. At best, they are more like spellcheckers, it's there job to correct unintentional mistakes, so that the intended meaning is presented. For example, yesterday my friend ShanWow posted something and messed up her post. As a new member, she does not have the power to edit her own posts, so I did it for her. You can't give everyone that power (except in Project Mayhem), but you need a moderator to do things like that.

 

I have made no secret that I have not been happy with Joel's conception of what a moderator should be, and his concept of what the "higher forums" should be. I could not agree with ASC more in that it is diametrically opposed to the spirit of Hondo's. I feel that as long as Joel sees his role as a draconian content manager and unilateral censor supreme, he should not have moderator powers. I know that alot of people will think this opinion comes from my personal dislike for Joel, rather than from an objective assessment, but there's no getting around that I suppose. I had no problem with Joel being the mod before he started on his recent war path, because it makes sense for the mod to be someone who is on the boards with greater frequency. For example, right now Town Square is moderated by "Signal08, dante, Testes McManballs." If indeed Sig is gone for good or for a little while, we have three infrequent or completely AWOL posters moding Town Square, and despite my not having any issues with any of those three guys (and having nothing but love for 2track), there should be at least one active poser moding Town Square. And Town Square's not the only forum without a single active mod. If Joel comes around to seeing the moderator's role as being less of a gatekeeper and more of a facilitator, then I have no qualms with his modship, in fact I would fully endorse it.

Edited by Reverend Jax
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Yeah, Archangel's mickey mouse analogy is total balls.

 

It's like saying that a guy in a Mickey Mouse costume can't advertise for Disney in Times Square, he has to come out of the costume and do in his "real life identity."

 

Second, the point about mods regulating content... Spot on. Mods were only ever introduced, as I recall, because Admin couldn't keep up with all the housekeeping shit posters were requesting.

 

 

And I want to make this last bit absolutely clear, so please forgive the Capitals...

 

 

HONDO'S BAR HAS NO HIGHER FORUMS.

 

Hondo's Bar has sawdust on the floor and spit buckets in the corners. It smells of whisky, vomit, and pig semen. Fuck, man, we stole the Harley Logo for a reason. Ain't no Biker Bars with satin covered parlours and iced tea on a platter.

 

Hell, even when we were Drunken Deities, the whole point was to have a naughty little Olympus where the Gods could kick back and get blowjobs/ pussy-eating from satyrs and see who could fart the biggest, blackest stormcloud.

 

If you want serious, weighty, dignified discussion, Nick's already posted some links to some forums with RULES that do philosophy and politics.

 

If you just want serious and weighty we can can do that here, but fuck dignity.

 

Fuck it in the eye with a giant balata cock.

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A moderator is not a newspaper editor. It is not their job to regulate content. A newspaper editor is responsible for receiving things other people create (write, draw, photograph, etc), and deciding whether or not to publish it, if he/she decides to publish it, then he/she decides where and when to publish it, and also whether to publish it in it's submitted forum, or in a modified form. That is not the role of a moderator on Hondo's. At best, they are more like spellcheckers, it's there job to correct unintentional mistakes, so that the intended meaning is presented.

 

Second, the point about mods regulating content... Spot on. Mods were only ever introduced, as I recall, because Admin couldn't keep up with all the housekeeping shit posters were requesting.

 

There you go Joel. A two thirds majority vote from the Politics forum mods on a policy for the Politics forum. No more crap-shacking on the basis of the content not meeting your guidelines for "appropriateness." You are a housekeeper, not a newspaper editor.

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while we're on about the image/spirit of hondo's (pig semen? really?), bish used the image of Deadwood, and what little ive seen of it - self-regulated, that kinda western rough thing but civilized most times cause people want it that way.

 

Sibob made a comment recently that rang with me a bit, that he'd wanted to draw us a sharper logo but that we really didnt become/didnt want to be anything more than "drinks & whores". i kinda lamented the idea of us pigeonholing ourselves, but then, the bar-image, the humor, the lack of taboos etc - dick & fart jokes included - arent necessarily incongruent in my mind with the content; i mean, if discussion-wise, the idea's ever been "anything goes", sure, i want us to have & be open to mature discussion, but not so rigid & uptight that shit cant be laughed at (like jax said, personal shit aside).

 

i can see jumbie's anti-elitist stance on there being no "higher forums" but the sentiment i think joel's going for is that topics like politics, philosophy, culture etc are typically heavier than those on entertainment, and that's not an unfair statement at all. its the sentiment of making them arbitrarily troll-free zones that is the crux, and for my 2 cents, again, until theyre spamming, i stand by every member's right to hit the "ignore" button and steer things back around. on some level, the idea of not being able to simply change the channel (borrowing from carlin here) does go against what ive put the spirit of this joint out to be.

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expressing oneself as Mickey Mouse is fine, but there are places where that is not acceptable. You yourself listed places where it's not acceptable. We're merely disagreeing on where those places should be.

 

Right now, Trolls cannot post in Suggestion Box. I (and others) want that to be in the 'higher forums' as well, and for obvious reasons.

 

oh, and as for this:

There you go Joel. A two thirds majority vote from the Politics forum mods on a policy for the Politics forum. No more crap-shacking on the basis of the content not meeting your guidelines for "appropriateness." You are a housekeeper, not a newspaper editor.

we have a thread for that, where it can, should, and will be debated. Nice try, but no.

 

and nice try for trying to twist around my words there.

 

also, this coming from you:

In my opinion, mod powers should be used to clean up, for do some organizing that can't be done by regular people

is refreshing. What's my IP number again? i forget.

 

and it's specifically not there role to make up rules then enforce them at their own discretion. A moderator should rarely ever move a post against the poster's wishes. A moderator is not a newspaper editor. It is not their job to regulate content

and yet Nick told me, when I first became a mod, that I could very well do that.

 

We move things around all the time. Just the other day I moved the entire gay marriage debate out of the Miss California thread because it belonged there and not in the other thread. When you and I last duked it out, I put that in a separate thread where we could continue to fight it out and not derail the thread. It's organization, and there's a long precedent for doing that.

 

And finally: the majority of what you said belongs in that thread we created for this very reason, so that you wouldn't be able to grandstand and we could discuss things freely and fairly. You've avoided the thread since it was made because you don't wish to discuss this at all. The reason I've ignored all of your wishes is because you've ignored the rule we set up, and you're doing so again.

 

If you, as a super mod, can get away with invasion of privacy with just a slap on the wrist then I can move posts I believe derail a thread into another thread.

 

Nick, kindly move this shit into the thread it belongs.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

That being said: when levity and jokes turn into derailment, the thread suffers. I've seen trolls employed specifically to do that: to harm another person's discussion in a manner they cannot be called out on. That's bullshit. Terrance and Philip come to mind as a perfect example: three pages in a thread and two and a half of them where these two clowns going back and forth.

 

If some topics, out of respect and appropriateness, are troll free then that should be applied to specific forums as well.

Edited by archangel
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It's too bad trolls can't post in this forum. Such wasted potential troll comedy outta this thread. Imagine while all you fucks are arguing the segregation of trolls, Juggalo Pete or Torrettes FUCKSHIT Man comes in here and makes this thread award worthy. Ah, Hondos... you should be ashamed.

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So can someone give me the cliffsnotes on what trolls are and why we hate/like them?

 

Trolls are individuals that make intentionally inflammatory statements in which they hold no actual belief for the explicit purpose of eliciting a negative reaction from individuals for the purposes of their own amusement.

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Suavemente is cool, too. Basically, trolls are current Hondonians creating fake profiles with clever gimmicks to cause mayhem. Sometimes they're funny. Sometimes they're not. Sometimes they're just downright tasteless. It's anonymous so people go overboard sometimes. We have some pretty epic ones here on Hondos. I believe, while stupid and pointless sometimes, they are staples to our community here. If done right...

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Traditionally, trolls are usually people who post things just to piss off others. Here, they can also be current members using alternate profiles that aren't necessarily acting like jerks. Pink Hulk and Underwood are two of my favorites.

Edited by Lycaon
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