DKS01

To get this thread SLIGHTLY back on track, here's some actual country songs that are just intended to be good songs... Marty Robbins was mentioned in the original post, here's a cover by Brian Burns of the Robbins song, Ballad of the Alamo. I liked the original, and I like this one too: Waylon Jennings-The Ghost of General Lee(it's a rare song of his, a lot of people not heard it) Ray Wylie Hubbard-Wanna Rock and Roll(yeah, it's a live version, and in the middle of it he goes into one of his other songs before coming back to the main song, but it's all that I could find on Youtube. Sure, it's a song about jealousy and cheating, but I'll be damned if it's not the most badass country song on the subject. "Last night I went downtown to a little place called Johnny's Last Stand, through the blues and the smoke I saw her on the dance floor, she's with another man. The dead man's name was Louie DuPris, I pushed a little button on my knife, I walked up to 'em said hello boys and girls, have you enjoyed your lives")

Bleh, I liked this thread more when it was actually discussing the topic rather than posting songs written by morons just trying to "shock" or offend people with their lyrics.

Based on the little I've seen of it, it's a weird ass comic about a mob enforcer(The Goon) who routinely has to deal with some other asshole who happens to raise zombies and possibly other supernatural creatures.

Well, maybe he's not gotten the script yet. Still plenty of time though. And since the movie is set in South America or some shit, I don't think finding him a part would be too rough, heh. A big, pissed off looking macho Hispanic dude in am action movie full of macho dudes that takes place in South America? Think we could fit him in? As for Vinnie, well...there's still time for him, too. And since he worked with Stone Cold in The Condemned, maybe Austin will put in a word for em.

Just an update on The Expendables. Ben Kingsley is OUT, but Stone Cold Steve Austin is now IN. Eric Roberts is in as well(yeah, I know the name doesn't carry the same heft as Stallone or Li, but I gotta be thorough here), as is Charisma Carpenter(I don't know her myself, but I suppose the Buffy fans can decide if this is good or bad news). Additionally, Ahnold himself has confirmed that he IS going to do a cameo in the movie. Lotta rumors and sources citing that Danny Trejo will be involved too, though that's not official yet and could wind up to be just more rumor mongering.

Yeah, "alt country" is another term for lot of the stuff I listen to, including the songs I posted above. I see Earle made it in that pack, and I'm familiar with the other artists as well, heh. And yeah Amber, Ray Wylie is definitely more honky tonk, not bluegrass. But there's still good country post-'95, you just gotta know where to look. Oh, and John Denver and his country roads can fuck right off though, that dude knew about as much about "country" as I know about livin' the thug life.

"if i had a dollar for "i'll listen to most any kind of music, except country", i could pay my student loans. Which is kinda understandable, cause i dont think we even agree on what's meant by the genre sometimes. " Agreed completely. "I'm a huge fan of Cash and what i consider Honky-Tonk cowboy shit like Marty Robbins, some Chris LeDoux, The Highwaymen, Hank Williams Jr etc when i'm in the mood, and we could do a whole thread on Bluegrass." Good bands there, I've listened to all of em, and Marty Robbins has a fuckin badass voice. "But, somewhere along the way, to basically paraphrase Cash, Tennessee decided modern country should sound "like pop with a southern twang." Now, i'm not wholly against this; i may not dig Shania Twain but i was all into the Dixie Chicks. When i lived in Texas, however, i took a bit to the more traditional-sounding artists like Alan Jackson, George Strait and the occasional Toby Keith, though i think he's the one that rubbed me the wrong way for feeling kinda exploitative post 9-11, could be wrong." Wow, I still pretty much agree with everything you wrote(except I never liked Dixie Chicks). "I could easily flood this thread with youtube Cash/Robbins shit, but for now, let's focus on modern country and see what (if anything) the lot of youse might enjoy." Well, I tend to prefer what these days is referred to amongst fans as "Americana" or "Texas Country", a lot of shit you won't hear on the radio, a lot of it you can't even easily find on Youtube and such. Some examples are guys like Steve Earle, Chris Knight, Robert Earl Keen, Mark David Manders, Ray Wiley Hubbard...plus a lot of the old school guys you mentioned(Cash, Robbins, etc) tend to be played more by stations that play "Americana" more than on the actual country stations. Marty Stuart's semi-recent album Badlands(semi-concept album about Native Americans, Cash had some input on the album as well) is pretty damn good too, the 9 minute "Three Chiefs" being a standout song. Here's a personal favorite, not new per se(early 90's) but still more modern country than old school masters like Cash and Robbins. I love the build up in the song, I love the attitude, it's a personal fave country song from any era, so here's a little: Steve Earle-Copperhead Road Now some others: Chris Knight-Down the River(story song, it's kinda long) Robert Earl Keen-The Road Goes On Forever(I woulda preferred Shades of Grey but I could only find crap live ones on Youtube. A little FYI, this song has been covered by Joe Ely, The Highwaymen, and others, but it is Keen's song, he wrote it and did it first)

Will do, thanks.

Alrighty then, I'll see what I can do. I found out yesterday I'm gonna have surgery upcoming(diabetic eye problems), but I dunno when it'll be, so we'll see.

[quote name='Mortiis558' date='Feb 25 2009, 04:59 PM' post='296853' Now DKS, Did I ever point to ANY of those bands and say they sound like them? No I didn't...so go on and put more words into my mouth please. Just because that is your idea of what I meant doesnt mean it was my idea, or maybe I would have brought up those bands. You don't like my explanations, then feel free to ignore them like you have been. I was showing you some examples of "80's rock" and pointing out that they sound NOTHING like Megadeth. I could find you tons more 80's rock bands that sound NOTHING like Megadeth too if you want, but I GUARANTEE you that you could NEVER find an 80's rock band that sounds anything like Megadeth. You can argue it all you want, but we both know it's true. "Speaking of ignoring, I listed 13 people I know PERSONALLY that agree with me. I said it was stupid because, again, fuck what OTHER people think, I don't need them to justify my own opinion, just letting you know that there are others out there that agree with me, since that seems to be so important to you. You'll have to excuse me for not putting in last names, I don't think they would appreciate that." You still can't prove that you're not the only one out there who claims Megadeth isn't metal, I've asked for proof, you refuse to give it. You type up random names, I can direct you to multiple people who agree with me, including several metal musicians(Mark Briody of Jag Panzer, Steve Kachinsky of Steel Prophet, several others). "I was trying to poke fun, and elude to the fact that you, like any metalhead male that drinks wine coolers at a show, are a pussy." Why does what one drinks at a show have any bearing on anything? I've known dudes who drink "wine coolers" who could kick just about anyone's ass, and I've known guys who chug beer like it's no tomorrow that nobody in their right mind would wanna piss off too. So as usual, you're both irrelevant and wrong. "As for talented singers, like I give two fucks. I don't listen to metal so I can hear the wide range of a vocalist. If I want that I will go pop in Prince or Meatloaf or some shit like that. I guess the whole point of me conceding that without Dave they used to be metal got missed as well. And so we are clear, I am making an exception to rule of vocalist not determining if a band is metal or not because, as I stated before, Dave sucks so much at singing it degrades the band as a whole and IN MY FUCKING OPINION makes them not metal." Vocals are irrelevant to rather a band is metal regardless of how much the vocalist sucks, you can have a different opinion, but it doesn't make it any less true. "Now tell me how Riot, Iron Maiden, Dio (even though I actually like his singing), Queensryche, Helloween, Gamma Ray, WASP, and Hammerfall, dont fit into the high pitched, girly vibratto category? These are the type of vocals I am talking about when I say that. I know there are even higher pitched singers, but let's not go there. First off, learn what vibrato is. Tobias Sammet from Edguy, Messiah Marcolin from Candlemass, these guys rely on vibratto, Bruce Dickinson and Dio do not. Umm, Mike DiMeio is not a high pitched singer at all, he sings for Riot(and also sang on the last Masterplan CD). I'm guessing the only Riot you've heard was their early stuff? Black Lawless from WASP is also not a high pitched singer he sometimes has high moments, but in general he's mid range, same as Dio. Sure, Helloween's previous singer was high pitched(and I'm not a huge fan of his), their current one really isn't, he tries sometimes but is awful at it. The others I'll give you as high pitched, but I'm not actually a fan of their vocals either, other than Dickinson, who sings high but still with power(and without vibrato). So, according to you, I like girly high pitched singers, and in response, you list...several singers who aren't girly high pitched, and a few singers I don't like...awesome work.

"Nah I don't have to preclude myself from talking about it, since it is just my opinion. I've heard shitty rock bands from the 80's, whose names, for obvious reasons, I fail to remember, and I've heard Megadeth. They sound similar to my "untrained" ear, make sense?" Speaking without knowledge, typical. I've LOVE to hear these "shitty rock" bands from the 80's that sound like Megadeth. I mean, Cheap Trick is a rock band from the 80's, I don't hear too much Megadeth in their music. Foreigner and Journey were pretty big in the 80's, I'm not hearing that Megadeth sound with them either. But hey, in whatever dreamland you live in where Megadeth isn't metal, maybe the 80's rock bands do sound like Deth. Not in reality anywhere, but in your imagination, rock on dude. "Point you to them? Ok there is this guy named Robert I met at a show. Umm my boss and co-workers who listen to heavier stuff, Josh (who is a musician), Steven (also musician), Pete, Brandon, Joe, Bob, Billy, Pam, Sarah, Matt, Carl, Mike, Dave (funny huh??), nameless long haired guy (musician), the bartender at Bennigans, random drunk chick #34,597....ok this is stupid." So in other words, you can't find anyone to who'll back you up. You could have just said that to begin with. "It's just sad i'll never get to see you get drunk on wine coolers (yes you drink wine coolers at your "metal" shows)" Actually, I don't drink at all, I'm diabetic which means booze is a no go even if I wanted to drink. But seriously, are you on crack? The last 2 shows I went to were Symphony X/Blind Guardian and Paganfest with Tyr, Eluviete, Enfsiferum, and Tursisas. At both shows, the only alcohol being served was beer. So again, taking another trip to that fantasy land in your head or what? " at a show I am at and end up being the annoying asshole who gets his ass kicked in the pit on principle." That I believe. "You'll never understand shit in the world (and in discussing metal) isn't just black and white." Maybe, but I'm bright enough to understand that Megadeth is metal. "So while Kreator or Death Angel may sound like Megadeth and I think the former two bands are metal, it doesn't mean Megadeth is metal. These aren't mathematical proofs, these are opinions." You can have the opinion that the world is flat if you want, and you can have the opinion that President Obama is a pasty white dude too, if you want. You'll still be wrong on all counts, but hey, it's your opinion. " You wanna fuck and make up and bash bands like Rhianna or Coldplay together? Or shall we continue this pointless banter? Let me guess, you actually like Rhianna, and will now begin defending her as well?" I've heard the name, I've never heard her music. But if you wanna take a go at some non-metal bands I like, I can point you to some. "I mean you do like that high-pitched girly vibratto." Well, those guys sing with far more talent than most death singers can even dream of, but actually, the majority of bands on my list don't have high pitched vocals nor do they use vibrato. As seems to be the norm in your case, you're talking without knowledge. Most of my favorite singers are not high pitched, and most high pitched vocals annoy me, actually, only somewhat less than the growls do(and sometimes more, I'll take a growler over Andre Matos or Timo Kotipelto in a heartbeat). Remind me where the high pitched vibrato is in Circle II Circle, or Aria, or Tad Morose, or Morgana Lefay, or Astral Doors, or Sabaton, or Running Wild, or Motorhead, or...yeah, you get the picture(well, hopefully). " If she had the guitarist, bassist, and drummer from Megadeth, and did a cover album of RIP where nothing was changed except that Rhianna sung Dave's lyrics like she sings her own, would that be metal?" Well, as I said, I've not heard her, but most likely, yes, it'd be metal, cause metal is defined by the MUSIC, not the vocal style. That's why bands with ultra high pitched singing like King Diamond, bands with mid-range powerhouse singers like Circle II Circle, bands with OPERA singers like Nightwish, bands with demented shrieks like Emperor, bands with deep gutteral growls like Nile, bands with constitpated sounding singers like Megadeth, bands with gruff mid range vocals like Testament, and bands with whiny powerless high singers like old Angra ALL fit into metal.

" I can't name any bands that are hard rock or 80's shit that sound like them because I don't like Megadeth or anything that would sound remotely similar. Sorry I am not willing to torture myself by reliving the 80's to prove a point." In other words, you're saying they sound like something that you're not actually familiar with, which should sorta preclude you from being able to talk on the subject. "Some would also agree with me" Point me to some of them. I can point you to whole forums of people who will agree with me, show me some who agree with you. "and many more have a lot more colorful words for Megadeth." I can find a lot of people who have colorful words for Megadeth too, but they still don't dispute the fact that they are metal. "Your list contains some true gems (Therion, Eluvitie, At the Gates, Dissection, Emperor, etc) but you also have a predominate "old-school" theme going there." Yes, I prefer good music. And that rules out the majority of death and black metal music, which for the most part, is garbage. Even the bands you list as "true gems" there, other than Dissection, are WAY near the bottom tier of my list in terms of quality. "I won't say bands like Kreator or Overkill or Death Angel, aren't metal I just never liked that stuff. " If those bands are metal, then Megadeth certainly is as well, cause bands like Overkill and Death Angel are the bands Megadeth SOUNDS the most like, not "80's hard rock bands". "But could you name some more bands? Maybe bands I might like? It's hard to take you seriously when your list is pretty much a who's who of bands (though metal) I have never liked." From the death/black metal side of things I don't listen to much, cause frankly, most of it sucks. I've listened to tons of them, hated the music, and as such will never promote it or continue to listen to it. From the growly side of things, I actually listen to and have promoted(I know there's some duplication here, I just don't wanna reread my list and see if I included all these or not)-Dissection, Naglfar, Emperor, At the Gates, Deceased, In Flames(older stuff), Covenant(early), Children of Bodom(older stuff), Brimstone, Amon Amarth, Mork Gryning, Arch Enemy, Carcass, Mortification, Immortal, Sear Bliss, Gardenian, Scar Symmetry, Unleashed, Waylander, Atroocity, Amorbital, Mithotyn, Ensiferum, Eluviete, Bathory, Einherjer, Bolt Thrower, Shadow's Fall, Mercenary, Finntroll, Morbid Angel, Callenish Circle, Absu, Death, Hypocrisy, Ancient Rites, Cynic, Atheist, Dark Tranquility, Benediction, Invocator, Melechesh, Thyrfing...I dunno, there may be more, but as I said, I consider the vast majority of death and black metal to be utter garbage(though still metal) so I don't listen to it.

Yeah,

Sabaton-Wolfpack. From the album Primo Victoria.

You're STILL dodging several points I've made, so feel free to try again. You kept rambling about how Megadeth is commercial, yet could never explain how so, you cite strange examples such as Dave being on some cartoon(which came out LONG after their classic albums), you cite them being played on METAL radio shows and ignore the fact that mainstream radio didn't pick them up until Youthanasia, and so on. You cited them as sounding like "hard rock", yet could not name a single hard rock band they supposedly sounded like. As for my opinion, I formed my opinion by LISTENING to them, and everyone else that listened to them formed the same opinion, because, without being STUPID, there's no other opinion to FORM about them. The riffs are clearly as metal as anything out at that time period, if not moreso, the guitar techniques, the soloing style, the drumming, it's NOT shit they do in "hard rock" bands, it IS shit that do in METAL bands, and THAT my friend, is what makes them metal. What bands do I like and what bands did I promote? I like and have promoted hundreds of bands. Blind Guardian, Savatage and all their related projects(Dr. Butcher, Circle II Circle, TSO, Jon Oliva's Pain), Judas Priest and Halford's solo discs(as Halford, not as Fight or as Two), Iron Maiden and Bruce Dickinson's later solo stuff(Accident of Birth and beyond), Exodus, Testament, old Metallica, Sabbat, Heathen, Skyclad, Grave Digger, Brainstorm, Running Wild, X-Wild, King Diamond/Mercyful Fate, Amon Amarth, Dissection, Emperor, Rage(not Rage Against the Machine), Candlemass, Doomsword, Dio, Solitude Aeturnus, Manilla Road, Crimson Glory, Queensryche, Helloween, Gamma Ray, Kreator, Destruction, Annihilator, Toxik, Mirage, Paradox, Persuader, Alestorm, Ensiferum, Falconer, Mithotyn, Wuthering Heights, Korpiklaani, Falchion, post-Andre Matos Angra, Aria, Kipelov, Scar Symmetry, Human Fortress, Megadeth, Overkill, Gardenian, Intense, Firewind, Death Angel, Artillery, Forbidden, Xentrix, Into Eternity, Unleashed, Volbeat, Cirith Ungol, Psychotic Waltz, Nevermore, Communic, Scariot, Evergrey, Dark Empire, Criminal Sanity, Shadow Gallery, Metal Church, Riot, Saxon, Nightwish, Die Apokalyptischen Reiter, old In Flames, Sear Bliss, Immortal, Therion, Pharaoh, Elvenking, Tyr, Symphony X, Ayreon/Star One, Viking, Seventh Angel, Coroner, Iced Earth, Winterfell, Anacrusis, Waylander, Devastation, Holocaust, Stormwitch, some Manowar, Motorhead, Pathosray, Tarot, Mekong Delta, Betrayer, Holy Moses, Borknagar, Eluviete, Jag Panzer, Liege Lord, Tierra Santa, Master, Mercenary, SOAD(yes, I like some "nu-metal"), Death, Sanctuary, VII Gates, Clenched Fist, Accept/UDO, Saint Daemon, Nocturnal Rites, Defender, Axel Rudi Pell, Evildead, Abattoir, WASP(mainly Headless Children/Crimson Idol), Iron Angel, Exciter, Absu, Warlock/Doro, Benedictum, At the Gates, Black Sabbath, Ozzy, Callenish Circle, Brimstone, Soilwork, older CoB, Edguy, Avantasia, Aina, Threshold, Helstar, Destiny's End, Holy Terror, Obituary, Intruder, Kamelot, Morgana Lefay/Lefay, Warlord, Hammerfall, Sabaton, Paragon, Memento Mori, Dark Angel, Mork Gryning, Naglfar, Omen, Rob Rock, Impelliteri, Sacred Reich, Q5, Satan, Jaguar, Tad Morose, Saviour Machine, Vicious Rumors...want more, or is this enough?

I got 2 messages out of it. One-Death metal still sucks. Two-I'll continue to dodge the points you've made time and again because I still can't come up with a logical response to them. So which one were you talking about?

"The very same things apply to Morbid Angel for YOU. So by my logic, to YOU, Morbid Angel isn't metal. Thank you for trying to understand but I can see you still fail to grasp what I am trying to say. If I indeed thought that Dave's vocals had more feeling than David's vocals, by all means you could conclude that I don't think Morbid Angel is metal. I never once said this, so quit assuming you know everything. " And if I said MA wasn't metal you'd say I was full of shit, and rightfully so. "So I heard them before they went commercial and they didn't sound like metal to me, I heard them after they became popular and they still didn't sound like metal to me. What don't you understand? I don't think Megadeth is metal. Nothing you can say will ever change that. " If they don't sound like metal, what do they sound like? Name a "hard rock" band that sounds like Rust in Peace, or Killing Is My Business, or fuck, even name a hard rock band that sounds like United Abominations. They're not rap, they're not country, they're not techno, so tell me, name a genre they fit in OTHER than metal? Fuck it, you can't, you already ADMITTED they play metal and they only reason you're claiming they aren't is because Dave's singing sucks and cause he doesn't have some sorta "feeling" in his vocals. " It's a shame though, because I don't agree at all and to see my own logic twisted in such a way is a disgrace to my intelligence." Making the claim to begin with was a disgrace to your intelligence. "You can't even explain how Megadeth is metal. " Umm, cause of the riffs, the solos, the drumming, and umm, well, EVERY FUCKING THING ABOUT THEM? There's nothing about them that ISN'T metal, musically speaking. " about how musically they are metal instead of just saying..." Anyone with an IQ in the double digits didn't need it explained. I'm sorry you did. "You can't justify a simple question, meanwhile I've done nothing but try to explain how they aren't. " An argument that holds no water now, and held none when you first made it. "On a fucked up side note, that completely justifies everything I have ever thought, Dave Mustaine is playing himself on an episode of the cartoon Duck Dodgers that is playing at my house right now. This is what you are protecting! Let's see Ishan or Corpsegrinder on a kid's show. You fail horribly...it's not just him either it's the whole band. " They already dress like clowns, so it's not that far fetched, assuming any kid's show would actually want em. But regardless, what does Dave being on a cartoon that have to do with what they were doing in 1986? You STILL can't seem to grasp the fairly simple concept that just because a band succeeds eventually doesn't mean all the stuff they did up TO that point was "commercial", and that's a point you've dodged AGAIN AND AGAIN. When Black Sabbath put out their s/t album, they sounded NOTHING like what the popular bands at the time were doing. Just because that album has since sold more than a million copies, and Sabbath has since become a household name complete with Ozzy on his own goofy reality show, DOESN'T MEAN BLACK SABBATH WAS A COMMERCIAL ALBUM. "Mort - 1 DKS - 0 " Good to see your scoring is as flawed as your logic.

I call Morbid Angel metal, but using your faulty logic, I can EASILY justify calling them not metal. I'm not a moron however, and I know how utterly flawed your "logic" is, so I won't do that. But truely, using your justifactions for why Megadeth isn't metal, the very same things apply to MA, so, by YOUR ARGUMENT, Morbid Angel apparently isn't metal. Yes, eventually Megadeth became successful, at the time, they were not commercial. Same with Black Sabbath, Jethro Tull, Judas Priest, Metallica, and dozens of other bands from dozens of other genres. Just because they eventually became sucessful AFTER THE FACT doesn't mean they were commerical when those albums were released. Megadeth didn't start getting regular airplay on commercial radio until Youthanasia, just like Metallica did with their s/t following some exposure for One from AJFA. Learn your history and get back to me. The word for people who call Megadeth metal isn't "blind", it's "accurate", you should look into it sometime.

So then Megadeth is metal with a singer who has no feeling behind the vocals. As I said before, vocal style is 100% irrelevant to rather a band is metal or not, nor is "feeling" required. There are bands in EVERY genre of music ever created who don't seem to have much feeling, that doesn't change the fact that they're still part of their particular genre. And frankly, I find more "feeling" in Dave's vocals than I do in 90% of death and black metal, so eh and for that matter, more feeling than in a lot of power metal as well. Hell, I find more feeling in Megadeth's vocals than I do in Morbid Angel's, so is Morbid Angel not metal? I mean, obviously they don't go around sounding like that normally, so I guess they must be trying to be something they aren't as well, so by your own rationale, Morbid Angel isn't metal. And last of all, you heard Megadeth on the late night METAL SHOWS, not commercial radio, which also sorta negates that point you were making about them "commercial" too, does it not?

Update:Due to the transfer of a large population of Alleria's Horde to the new realm Nesingwary, leaving an already heavily ally favored server even MORE ally favored, Necromortis will be moving to Nesingwary as well.

Commercialism isn't the point, yet you made a point of bringing it up. Telling, but oh well. So does any band who's put out "commercial" or successful music no longer count as metal? Megadeth on the radio for 2 decades, riiiiight. Kinda curious what stations you were listening to for those 2 decades. Those bands you listed, I dare say THEY would laugh their ass off at you claiming Megadeth isn't metal....I KNOW Carcass would. And next question, how does having crap vocals prevent them from being metal? Yes, Dave's vocals suck, I agree. But that's 100%, completely, totally, absolutely irrelevant to them being metal. Metal vocals cover the spectrum from the ultra high pitched annoying singers in power metal bands like Labyrinth and Angra, to mid range melodic voices like the singers of Circle II Circle and Axel Rudi Pell, to gruff yet understandable vocals like the singers for Grave Digger and Sabaton, down to the ultra deep bellows of Nile and Morbid Angel, even to opera style vocals like Nightwish and Operatica. And yes, it also includes Dave's constipated sounding singing. Sure, I too would prefer the "generic thrash voice", but they're still just as metal as ANY band you've mentioned thus far(and yes, I own albums by all of them as well, just in case you think I've only heard a song or 2 by them), and frankly, as far as taste goes, I'd take RIP over anything ANY of those bands have put out to date. As for sounding like "bad shit from the 80's", cite me some examples of non THRASH METAL bands that sound remotely like RIP or Peace Sells?

Are you smoking crack right now, or did you just finish smoking it? There was nothing REMOTELY commercial about Peace Sells, Killing is My Business, or Rust in Peace, that kinda music simply WAS NOT what was big when those albums came out. Hell, the music they're playing NOW(which is a lot less aggressive than back in the day) isn't commercial, if they were going for a commercial sound NOW they'd be doing stuff like Killswitch Engage or Disturbed. You clearly are fucking clueless about the band, yet for some reason you continue to talk about them. Saddening, but not entirely uncommon. As for Trivium, the first 2 albums don't interst me, the second 2 are tolerable if for some reason I wanna hear old Metallica without actually listening to old Metallica. And Dream Theater bores me to tears with the vast majority of their music, so no, I'm not really a fan of either band. Now, relevance of your question?

Metal has evolved, but that does not mean the older bands are not metal just because some new asshole tuned his guitar down lower and decided instead of singing he'd go BLARRRAGRGVGHWRVGHR throughout his material champ. How is Megadeth metal? Because that's what they fucking PLAY, dumbass. Yes, Tull got a Grammy, but even THEY said from the start they didn't deserve to win a "metal" grammy, and no metal fan agreed with their winning it either, pretty much the ONLY people who agreed with that decision was the award's committee themselves, so not sure what point you're making there. And you have to have 100 posts to post HTML, otherwise you have to ask an admin to do it.