Jumbie

Jumper by third eye blind.

I hated it at first. Every time I heard it, I felt like it was accusing me.

"I wish you would step out from that ledge, my friend; cut ties with all the lies that you've been living in..."

I think that the view of heroes today is part of a wider post modernist revision. Look at the Punisher. It's everywhere, not just westerns.

These days no one is surprised when Kobe Bryant and Reggie Miller get into a fight oncourt. their status as infallible heroes was never seriously believed. No one's is. Who is the most recent hero america has?

the firefighters of NYC... SUre the did heroic things on that day, but you know that included in that bunch of truly heroic men are wifebeaters, racists, homophobes and child abusers. This does not detract from their heroism or their worth as firfighters.

I think we have grown sensible enough to accept that no one is perfect. so our movies dont need perfect heroes. In fact they fail with them becasue they have no credibility.

Of course you were talking about heroes as mythical role models, and in that respect we have lowered our standards to less than perfection.

That leads to two possibilities, one very good , the other very bad.

young people might decide that it is ok to screw up and learn to forgive themselves when they do, becoming much better adjusted individuals...

or

they might decide that heroism is irrelevant or artificial.

Too easy...

1. Lemmon was with Kevin Spacey in Glenagarry Glen Ross

2. Spacey was with Helen Hunt in Pay it Forward

3. Hunt was with Jack Nicholson in As Good as it Gets

Next challenge:

Nicholson to Frances McDormand

Zeta-Jones to Antonio Banderas in Zorro.

Banderas to Salma Hayek in Desperado

Salma to Matt Damon/ Ben Affleck in Dogma

Affleck/Damon to Robin Williams in Good Will Hunting

Williams to Pierce Brosnan in Mrs. Doubtfire

That's doing it with the Kevin Smith movie.

As for the Brosnan-Furlong challenge, My best effort is five degrees:

1. Brosnan was with Michelle Yeoh in Tomorrow Never Dies

2. Yeoh was with Chow Yun-Fat in Crouching Tiger, Hidden  

  Dragon.

3. Chow was with Mark Wahlberg in The Corruptor

4. Wahberg was with Avery Brooks in The Big Hit

5. Brooks was with Edward Furlong in American History X.

I'm sure it can be done faster but I'm tired.

My challenge: Edward Furlong to Jack Lemmon. I haven't figured it out myself, but it should be fun.

When did you do two degrees? I saw you do 3.

And I figured you'd wanna get that Kevin Smith bonus point...

James Dean was in "Rebel without a cause" with Dennis Hopper

Hopper was in "Sons of Katie Elder" with John Wayne

damn!!! two degrees. a new record.

No one answered my first challenge on the board so I reissue it:

Catherine Zeta-Jones to Pierce Brosnan

Using a Kevin Smith movie gives U bonus points

Weezer rocks!

I left the USA just as things were picking up for Linkin Park. I hope they dont get overplayed. (happens to all good music. Anyone wanna hear 'Smooth' again?) ANd i hope their next cd is good.

Fine Fine :hmph:

Apparently we're playing 3 degrees of separation folks. There's way too many movies made these days. I suppose we could go back to 6 degrees if we included older actors.

Does voiceover work count in your rules, Heartless? Like Mel Gibson in Chicken Run or Jennifer Aniston in Iron Giant?

For my challenge trace Catherine Zeta-Jones(-Douglas) to Pierce Brosnan. I can do it in five, using a Kevin Smith film for bonus points!

1) Lopez was in The Cell with Vincent D'Onofrio

2) D'Onofrio was in MIB with Tommy Lee Jones

3) Tommy Lee was in Fire Bird (Wings of the Apache) with  

    Nicholas Cage

4) Nicholas Cage was in Con Air with John Cusack

5) John Cusack was in America's Sweethearts AND High

    Fidelity with Zeta Jones

There! five steps. Seven is waaayyy too easy. I say we go for six. And just to show you how easy this game is, I'll redo your Bacon to Lopez trail in 3 moves.

1) Kevin Bacon was in Flatliners with Julia Roberts

2) Roberts was in Ocean's Eleven with George Clooney

3) Clooney was in Out of Sight with Jennifer Lopez

Geez, Nick you are totally disappointing me. First you troll voted the Braveheart/  Gladiator and Whore polls, now you're letting common sense flow throuhg your open fingers.

Kee already said everything I could say on this topic, but his most important points were that Bruce knew how to use his legs. He could go low, sweep Ali and take it to a wrestling match.

And Bruce could take a hit. Name me a good martial artist that cant.

But StarWars DID have an antihero. Han Solo.

And space opera wasn't what I had in mind when I said scifi.

compare Sons of Katie Elder with Frequency. not the same thing of course but the human fears, hopes and evil shine through in each case.

Western derived SciFi also encompasses "Enemy Mine" (think Dances with Wolves) a great exporation of culture clash.

I'm sure there's more but I'm too tired to think at the moment. Naturally Sci Fi represents a frontier.. And just as Westerns wer used to tell many a mediocre story without actual pioneer spirit, there;'s lots a shootemup scifi stories without merit or even real scifi

Didn't you see Moulin Rouge?! Musicals are the wave of the future, baby!

Seriously, the obvious place is scifi. Starwars has been described as a western in Space, especially as the story could easily be turned into one.

Vader - "Where is the rebel ranch?"

I thought giving head refered to giving the other person the services of your head...

Does anyone have  a definitive answer on the origin of this phrase?

I think it's a few factors.

One, most healthy stuff, does taste like ass. I only eat lettuce and raw cabbage or raw carrots. Brocholli and cooked vegetable expecially spinach still make me puke. I try to eat what I cna stomach and also fruits which almost always taste good. (DIE Chiquita DIE) (sorry, that's a whole nother issue people)

plus it's the animal tendency to eat well when food is abundant. America is also sticken with overweight pets. Cats and Dogs have no discipline in eating either. We all just follow the urge.

And then of course there is advertising. and other campaigns. The money is in the processed foods and processing food tends to remove good stuff and remove bad stuff. And that kinda thing does seep into society. I was watching Oprah (only a few minutes I swear.) and kids were talking about how they got teased if they didn't eat the 'cool' processed lunches like the dunkables and the other name brand stuff. ANytihng wholesome was seen as uncool.

Hey Nick. The rabbit food is good for ya!

Well, Nick's fond of postoing Onion articles. I'll post NYtimes artivles. Some of you may remember the MacD vs BK argument in fight club. Apparently though, they're already allies in a war on our waistlines and heart valves

February 19, 2002

An `Eat More' Message For a Fattened America

By MARY DUENWALD

Dr. Marion Nestle brought out her newest toy, a bright red and yellow McDonald's Deluxe Mealtime Set. She hadn't even opened it, but you could see all 37 molded plastic pieces through the cellophane box top. There were toy burgers and fries, toy hash browns and McNuggets, toy chocolate chip cookies, even toy packets of ketchup and sweet and sour sauce.

"This whole box was only $9!" she exclaimed, as if proud to have spotted a bargain. "Isn't it fun? It's adorable!" But she quickly dropped the sarcasm and got to the point: "It's advertising, and I paid for it. If it was cigarettes, people would be appalled."

The Mealtime Set is the newest in the collection of food-themed toys, including M&M plush dolls, Coca-Cola Barbie and "The Oreo Cookie Counting Book" in Dr. Nestle's closet. Marketing to children, she contends, is but one of many ways the food industry encourages Americans to eat non- nutritious food, and to eat it in enormous quantities.

The efforts, Dr. Nestle contends, contribute to the fattening of America. Thirty-five percent of adults, 12 percent of adolescents and 14 percent of children in the United States are overweight, according to Dr. Nestle's new book "Food Politics" (University of California Press).

"What I'm trying to do is force people to think about this," said Dr. Nestle (pronounced NES-sel). "Now, I know McDonald's isn't poison. Nobody can say that these foods in reasonable quantities are bad. Hamburgers have nutrients; milkshakes have nutrients, but they are very high in calories. And people don't even notice this eat-more message is here. That's what troubles me."

Dr. Nestle's 10th-floor office off Washington Square Park in Manhattan is large; she is the head of New York University's department of nutrition and food studies. But much of the floor space is taken up with rows of plastic tubs full of meticulously organized files: her documentary evidence of how the food industry engages in politics to influence the American diet. It is the subject of her new book. In an interview, she presented several of her main accusations:

Q. You say the food industry produces 3,800 calories a day for every person in the United States, up from 3,300 calories a day in the 1970's. How does this amount compare with the number of calories we need?

A. The usual figures are 2,200 calories a day for women and 2,500 for men. Of course, we know that people are eating more than that, because we know they are gaining weight. Are people less active? Definitely. But they're also eating more.

Q. How does the food industry promote overeating?

A. Just by promoting eating. By spending $10 billion a year in direct media advertising. That is so much more than is spent on health and nutrition education, you can't even put them in the same stratosphere. The campaign for fruits and vegetables spends about $2 million a year on public education.

The food industry spends another $20 billion a year in indirect marketing, which would include things like the McDonald's Mealtime Set and soft-drink makers' putting their logos on school scoreboards. These practices are so acceptable that people think drinking soft drinks all the time is normal. You're being told in a thousand ways, every time you set foot in a restaurant, to eat more. Their job is to sell you food, to sell you drinks, to sell you appetizers and desserts.

Q. Doesn't portion size having something to do with overeating?

A. Yes. It's very interesting that the larger portion business started at exactly the same time that obesity rates started to go up. One of my doctoral students did a huge literature search of things like magazine ads and McDonald's brochures, and she found that large-size portions started in the late 1970's and picked up in the early 80's.

Muffins used to be one or two ounces; now they're six or seven or eight. Some bagels are also six or seven ounces. When I was a kid, bagels were the size of what are now called mini-bagels. And you never used to go into a restaurant and be presented with a bowl of pasta that you would expect to feed six people. You're presented with this now, and you've got to do something with it.

Q. Why do you say the food industry especially wants us to eat more processed food?

A. That's where the profit is. Potatoes are cheap. Potato chips aren't. And those really delicious olive oil rosemary ones that I happen to be particularly fond of are shockingly expensive, $3 for five ounces. The objective is to process foods as much as possible. But many of these highly processed foods are junk foods — relatively high in calories and low in nutrients.

Q. Why are we susceptible to the food industry's message?

A. Well, why wouldn't we be? The message is attractive. The food tastes good. The message about healthy eating is very boring.

Q. Good nutritional advice is notoriously complicated and hard to follow, isn't it?

A. No, it's not complicated. It's simple: eat more fruits and vegetables, and don't eat too much. And be active and don't smoke.

What's complicated is single-nutrient advice. People think, I have to worry about calcium. I have to worry about folate. I have to worry about protein.

I have to keep track of these 40 different nutrients, and they're so confusing. And then one day you tell me to eat margarine, and then the next day you tell me that trans- fatty acids aren't any good, and why can't you people make up your minds? I have a lot of sympathy for that.

Q. You think the food industry exploits confusion about proper diets, don't you?

A. It makes claims that are about marketing, not health. The margarines with wood pulp in them, which are supposed to lower cholesterol, are just another way to sell margarine. I don't think we need everything to be vitamin enriched. My feeling is, If people are worried about their vitamins, they can take a daily supplement. They don't need to have zinc in their Froot Loops.

Q. Your book singles out cereals and Froot Loops, in particular for special criticism. Can you explain?

A. We have a big problem with nutrition right now, as evidenced by rising rates of obesity and diabetes. And breakfast cereals are the place where it's most obvious. Froot Loops has no fruit and no fiber, and half the calories come from sugar. It's masquerading as cereal, but it's really candy. Candy has its place in the diet, but it's certainly not fruit, and it's not a health food.

Q. In the mid-1980's, you worked in Washington for the Public Health Service as editor of the Surgeon General's Report on Nutrition and Health, published in 1988. Why was this book never updated, as planned?

A. Because it is too controversial. If you tell people what to eat, you have to tell them to eat less of certain things, and then it's, eat less of what? The sugar industry people were in our office all the time. They most emphatically did not want us to say eat less sugar. The meat industry was really worried, since fat was a big issue, and meat is where the saturated fat is. They didn't want the surgeon general's report to say eat less meat. And it didn't.

Q. In publishing your report on nutrition and health, how did you get around the pressures from the food industry?

A. With euphemisms. The report doesn't say eat less meat; it says "choose lean meat." As if anybody is sitting there with a fat meter to tell how much is in there. It doesn't say eat less sugar; it says "choose a diet moderate in sugar." They're euphemisms that political nutritionists understand. The public, of course, doesn't.

Q. What's wrong with people being fatter?

A. Coronary heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, diabetes. Type 2 diabetes is totally preventable. Most people can prevent it by eating less, and not even that much less. You don't want individuals to feel bad about being overweight. You just want them to do something about it. Certainly, if they've got symptoms of diabetes, high blood pressure, or heart disease, you want them to do something about it, if you care about them.

Q. What do you want to see happen?

A. I want to see consciousness raised about the eat-more message. I think the food industry has to back off some of their practices. It really has to stop marketing to schools. It's unconscionable.

And I think we need to make things easier for people. If you're interested in public health, if you want to do something about obesity, you need to change the environment. What's in the environment? Well, $30 billion worth of food marketing. I'd like to see the government take a much more serious approach to obesity prevention.

Should I take this seriously or vote in the face of insanity...

Fuckit. I said I would vote honest and I will.

I might very well, be the first one to mention Capriati on this thread... Capriati's been gone for a while after making a spectacular debut bacdk in the late eighties at age 14. Drug problems. Her lack of performance in the intervening years cannot be called inconsistency with regard to tennis skill.

and now for the real debate: Martina's looks. She's got twice the forehead she needs and is too short. Plus when she smiles, her teeth look like a drive in movie screen.

Anna... well anna... excuse me, I have a massive collection of Ann pics I haven't visited for a few days. I really must be going.

seeya.

McLaine is good at sneaky shit, ambushes and the like. But in a straight up fight he gets his ass kicked. Look at the fight on the plane in DH2.

Axel Foley, is probably a better cop than either of them but he's more mouth than fighting. (though he can fight).

Riggs has the moves. He'll win at hand to hand. And since he didn't kill himself in pt 2 after his South African gf died, then It's safe to assume that possibility is out.

Waylon Jennings was part of the Highwaymen with Cash, Nelson and Kristofferson.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/14/obituaries/14JENN.html

You need to register to see the article but registration's free.

It was brilliant writing. He made me believe that Batman won that fight.

ANd he did it by powering one up and tearing the other down to make it a fair fight

I've always wondered how Stark controlled his jet boots. I mean, where's the on switch?

Steel against Iron... it aint much of a contest.

I'm betting the Uru hammer will beat that tin suit into a nice lawn ornament