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I've heard other members talk about this, and during my time boxing, weight training, and preparing for fire, ive come across quite a few guys who treat this kinda thing as common place. Anabar, Deca, and counter-treatments (when necessary), done in stacks...its considered basically acceptable (socially, not legally) in small amounts to increase strenght/performance, but not to be continued over time, it seems.


This all came to mind from this NY Times article, outlining DHEA as a still-legal over the counter form of pill that acts as a stereroid, still on the market due to an act of congress, apparently. It's a lenghty article (to read i... user: drunkennews, pass: pinky, i believe).


What's your feelings/experience with them? Most can agree major league ball should have the same drug screening as every other major sport, but beyond that, what do you think of players who use/have used them? Does it change your opinion to know that many, many cops, firefighters and others have employed them at one point in time?

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I think drug testing is a must in sports to keep the playing field level...It's not ever pleasant..especially for the athletes..Paralympians are tested under the same governing body/standards as Olympians..it's called USADA or US Anti-Doping Assoc. and there a MILLION things you can't have in your system IN competition...caffeine, anything for asthma, ANY cold medicines, even some vitamins are not allowed...there's a huge list..then there's a much smaller (but still pretty lengthy) of what you are not allowed to have OUT of competition....stuff like creatine, ephedra, Vioxx (when it was around) and some other pretty common things that you have to be careful of....Alot that's available as supplements in Smoothie shops is illegal under USADA so Jax better not ever spike my drink!!!


Anyways---the testing with USADA is actually RANDOM and it's not once in a blue moon like some of the other leagues..I heard NFL gets it once a year..At nearly every major competition we get it and then usually a few times for out of competition..they come banging on your door WHEREVER YOU ARE at around 8am and they WATCH (very closely!) you pee in a cup...if they find you and you aren't ready to go or just went..they follow you until you do..and if you don't go with the right PH for testing..they'll wait! I have to send in a sheet every quarter that tells them addresses and phone numbers of where I am every hour of every day...If at anytime they can't find me and they send someone to test me-I have an hour and a half to respond and get to them (wherever I said I'd be)...So all of that is kinda weird for most people but it's worth it to at least TRY and keep the game as even as possible....there are always people ahead of the game beating the system and using things that aren't tested yet but I wouldn't feel too good about winning if I was one of those people and if you can't enjoy that it would be pretty hard work for not much payout!


I don't think that baseball especially will go to anything near as strict as USADA..ON sportscenter I heard a guy tested positive to whatever they have this season and he's banned for FOUR GAMES I heard! That's not enough to bother anyone. If you test positive with USADA no matter why--automatically banned from your sport for two years...if it happens again-it's LIFE. I don't know what is appropriate for baseball..I wouldn't want to be in charge of designing a program that would work..especially since they are shifting from being SO lax...but I do hope they find something.


It doesn't really make me feel differently about police/fire men/women that use supplements or other additives because they aren't really competing against people who are clean...I'm not the FDA so I can't judge what is or is not safe enough to be on the market...And since they are adults I think if it's legal and they use it as instructed I guess that's their choice..If I was their friend/family member I would want the best for the LONG TERM health and I don't think much is known about many of the things out right now LONG TERM...so that would worry me but other then that.....they aren't bringing down the image of justice in their organization as athletes who dope do...

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I read the article yesterday and there were some things that were left out about DHEA in the article.


First, DHEA is a lousy muscle builder. DHEA can convert to estrogen OR test. Your body will regulate itself. Some of the other prohormones that were on the market did not convert to estrogen, but would convert directly to test, such as 1-AD, which made them excellent muscle builders.


What DHEA is good for is that it is an excellent anti-oxidant, which wasn't mentioned in the article although they did mention it being a product used for anti-aging.


It's also a decent product for older men since levels of DHEA tend to begin declining in the mid to late 20's very slowly, but of course this is natural. The bottom line is there haven't been any long term studies on this stuff though.


As for firefighters and police officers using certain types of steroids, like most things I have mixed feels on the subject.


I would personally prefer some of them to use in moderation since that extra bit of strength may one day save lives. But I would prefer that they used something like Anavar since this particular substance does not affect testosterone levels and is a very safe substance when used in moderation. Anavar is not going to affect someones temperment or judgement, like say a cycle of Dianabol would for instance.


By the way Irish, these substances can be obtained legally. There are plenty of doctors that will write scripts and will moniter you using bloodwork to make sure certain liver enzymes and your cholesterol remain at safe levels. If fact, I know a police officer/corrections officer who was a small guy during the 80's who did a cycle under a doctor's supervision so that if he was attacked in jail, he would be better equiped to defend himself.


These drugs have legitimate medical purposes, besides just getting big. My girlfriend's cousin just had major surgery for Cron's disease and anabolic steroids helped contribute to him recover from a condition he nearly died from. There's a laundry list of diseases that are treated using anabolic steroids (not to be confused with anti-inflammatory steroids).


But as far as those in public service are concerned, I hope that they are in good physical condition in order to save lives and if that means taking anabolic steroids to save lives, then I'm for it. But these drugs should be used in moderation and if possible under a doctor's supervision.

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What are you now, his lackey/herald?

Look at all the philosophy threads - a thesis, for godsake - that dont get replies. :D me a river! if its deafening silence, let it feed your ego; its the board's way of sayin it was so brilliant, no reply did it justice.

...which i just took away from him, by indulging this, and its all your fault.

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