On Pc Games & Gamers

[The NZA]

Some thoughts on PC gamers from Penny Arcade...

 

You want to know what the worst part about (PC) games has been? PC gamers. That's right, it's you petition signing sons of bitches that have ruined every other Blizzard game I have ever played. The thought of enjoying a well designed and masterfully produced Blizzard creation on my favorite console is just shy of erotic. No whiny bitches complaining about a huntress rush. No junior high school kids using hacks to kick my ass while calling me a n00b. No, just me and my console of choice playing through a well thought out single player campaign set in the thrilling Starcraft universe. I'll go a step further and say I hope that Blizzard decides not to include online support for their console versions. If I want to play a tactical shooter on a console while someone relates a wild tale of sexual debauchery with my mother, I'll play SOCOM. If Blizzard simply must include some kind of multiplayer experience I hope they limit it to a split screen mode. At least that way I can choose the assholes I want to play with from my own stable of friends.

 

...Truly original console games in the last three years. Let’s see…hmmm…No I guess you're right I can’t think of a single one. Well, unless you count:

 

REZ, Shenmu, ICO, Frequency, Pikman, Animal Crossing, Space Channel 5, Tony Hawk, Grand Theft Auto 3, Seaman Jet Set Radio,Soccer Slam, Crazy Taxi, Samba De Amigo Lost Kingdoms, Super Monkey Ball...

 

Would you like me to keep going?

 

I wouldn’t go holding up the PC as some kind of paragon of originality my friend. I would need a bachelor’s degree in mathematics just to count the number of games that use the Half Life engine. Shit and half of those would be Half Life games.

 

His first part points out somethin i often stereotype PC gamers as: amazing dorks. Its a niche market compared to consoles, and theyre amazingly fuckin obnoxious in the multiplayer games ive played. Sure, ya find a handfull of ok guys, but there's an overwhelming amount of what seems like foul mouthed pre-teens just there to fuck up the experience for others. Im not sayin this aint true for the console market; its just i dont have to see it. Yet, anyway. Enjoying an online PC game? Wait till the hacks make it through.

The 2nd part i find true as well: I generally dont enjoy PC RPG's, for instance, not just because they often lack characterization, i think, but as with many PC genres, they seem to lack creativity. Great games like Deus Ex pop up, but there's a ton of D & D clones in between. Consoles seem to breed innovation.

Im also picky about the experience, as i dont wanna upgrade hardware bit by bit or download the patch or what have you; i want to buy the system cheap every four years or so, then buy games to play soon as im home (fuck the manual!).

Dont get me wrong, Junker has a pont: you should just be a gamer in general, follow the good games wherever they may be. And i will; if enough of you kids get into City of Heroes when it comes out, ill try to get in on it too.

But otherwise, no, i dont trust PC's, and i dont care for a great deal of PC gamers and their eletist bullshit. That's largely where my bias comes from. Guess ill stick with 1-player console stuff until ive got enough for a good Bomberman match, or someone like Junker, Chief or Yahven wants to play somethin online that i can actually run.

Probelm is, if this thread gets any attention & PC gaming defense, itll be from those 3 guys, who are good guys, and a blast to play with: not at all the kind im referring to here. Even so, I'm in an open minded mood, so lets hear another side.

[JunkerSeed]

As for that PC RPG bit, PLAY FALLOUT! Go to Walmart, go to teh computer game section and pick up the pack of Fallout 1 and 2 for a mere 10 dollars. It'll run on the shittiest computer on earth, take up next to no harddrive space, and be one of the best games you've ever played! It's got insane creativity, perfect humor, a great combat system thats sort of like final fantasy tactics, but still keeps that PCRPG concept of not being linear and letting you do what you want. If you play one PCRPG, let it be fallout. If you play two, let the other be planetscape: torment. Sure, it uses the baldurs gate engine, but the story is the reason to play it. You're an immortal who wakes up in a morgue with amnesia one day... you gain experience by remembering shit, because at one point, you were a master of everything. Very cool. Just suggestions that will run on your computer for those long days of reality TV and Fast and the Furious DVDs.

 

As for the type of people you meet online, yeah, 90% of everybody you encounter online sucks. Then again 90% of everyone you meet on the street sucks, but it seems more apparent online for some reason. This happens because the type of people with the time and inclination to play these online games for so long are 13 year olds that get beat up at school all day and are looking for empowerment. I think non-massively multiplayer shit is great. Spend a little bit of time and you will find a halflife server that consistently has fairly cool people in it. Battle.net is a bit harder, but you could just play online with your friends too, you dont have to play with the masses if ya dont want to. And they're right about the lack of originality. As much as I like PC games, they're all either first person shooters, typical RPGs, or real time strategy these days. The most you can hope for is a bit of originality within those set genres.

[Reverend Jax]

As for PC RPGs, this Drunken RPG I keep hearing about sounds pretty good. Now that I have a computer, I need to get me hands on it.

[The NZA]

Yeah, ive heard others mention Fallout a bit too. Did you leave Mike here a copy of those ones? Soon as my computer stops crapping on itself ill give em a go, think i have room.

One thing i meant to mention: i think playing even the generic FPS is a great time when its amongst friends, and i guess im kinda happy to see certain console games going online because of this. Online gaming can be really fun, which is why i hate it when its fucked up.

Lets see if this thread gets Chiefy or Yahven's attention, i wanna hear more on the PC defense font from the 2 former console guys. Yahven usually has interestin things to say along these lines.

Drunken RPG was not only fun, its a good example of the kinda thing you can do on PC that isnt nearly as easily done on console - i still cant find a copy of RPG Maker for Playstation. Perhaps as consoles get hard drives & such this'll change, but then Yahven aruges that theyll basically be smaller PC's.

[Reverend Jax]

Yahve has most likely seen this thread, just not replied to it. Who do I have to talk to about getting a copy of Drunken RPG? I need a hard copy, not that I t anyone'd uploaded to some online server, but I'm not online (still ).

[Take Me To Your Lizard]

Online gaming is definately fun when the people you're playing with are reasonably civilised and pleasant. I used to play Quake 1 for a clan and they had a private clan server where everybody was friendly - made the games much more enjoyable. But I've tried Diablo and it's sequel, Starcraft, and a bunch of FPS games and they are all ruined by fuckwits who take grim pleasure in pissing people off. Counterstrike seems one exception - the fuckwits are fewer than most games, but they're there.

 

I was going to buy a new computer this year, mostly for new online games like Neverwinter Nights, but then I realised I just couldn't be bothered. The price was partly a factor, but I also like knowing that the game I buy WILL work - no patches, no fiddling with my computer, just plain and simple. I've gone back to my console roots and bought a PS2, and it really is the dog's. Just use my computer for word processing and stuff now, and the odd single player strategy game.

[TopDawg540]

Well I've got ALOT of experience on the MMORPG front and the Console/PC game front. Granted Innovation has kind of hit a standstill with alot of massive online games out there. The biggest deterrent for most folks trying to get in on one is the lack of competant people who pla alot of them. Theres unfortunately alot of Immature Retards , powerleveling min/maxers who dont give a rats ass about interaction :rail: and troublemaking PKers .

 

My solution? Fuck the masses. :werd:

 

Most good Single player games support private gaming between PC's or have password locked rooms (a la diablo) so you can have a good ole fashioned co-op or deathmatch on friendly terms.

 

And the ones that forse you out into the masses (EQ) I find some friends I already know, and group up for some adventuring. The best Online experiance I've had thus far is with Gemstone 3. The main reason being the average age is 20's-40's mostly on the upper end. Lots more maturity.

 

Granted snerts did make it rough for a time but for a slightly higher fee you can play in Platinum where for the most part the players police themselves. Act like an ass? Life's gonna be rough change for the better or get run outta town. Great people really but no putting up with bullshit. Also a very big emphasis on roleplaying.

 

Anyhow, Alot of new games are coming out in the not too distant future Star wars: Glaxies, Earth & beyond, Sims, Coupla Superhero ones. but they will be pulling FRESH folks in not just EQ or AoC converts so theres hope there. But all in all the Online gaming experiance is determined by the company you keep. Grouping with buddies is the most fun/rewarding i've found but with a lil patience theres good folks to meet up with in every MMORPG if you look long enough .

 

~TD

[BigChiefSlapaho]

Shameless Gemstone plug alert!

[King of Snake]

Well I'm more a console gamer, no messing around with patches and a shitload of options and controls, just an easy to pick up single player scenario that's just as easy to save and quit till another time.

 

On the other hand I do like Sim games, The Sims and Black & White, and point and click style games like Blade Runner or Discworld Noir. First person shooters, I'm shit at, console or PC, I'm shit at HalfLife and Goldeneye, though I did like a game of CounterStrike. Unfortunately my lack of skillz and shitty ping didn't help in this regard. Online RPGs, I don't have the time or dedicated line to be able to commit to any, they seem interesting tho if played fair.

 

There's good stuff on both tho, there shouldn't be any need to draw a line between em that you have to stand on one side or the other. If you can only afford one then pick whatever seems more to your liking but don't rule out the alternatives, there're good innovative games being made for all platforms. I'll leave it at that.

[Take Me To Your Lizard]

I've always loved FPSs, but never thought a console could do it properly (where's my mouse!?). Goldeneye and PD changed that and showed how a console pad can work ok - you just have to slow the physics down a bit to reflect the longer aiming times.

 

Now, the PS2 has gone further with the dual-stick control method. For games like Red Faction or Deus Ex, you use one stick to strafe and one to orient your facing. When you get used to it, this system is fantastic. Yay for innovation.

[Jesus_was_Goth]

Hey, they have a thread on video games. I think im gonna like this place. Well, on to my post. I know a few hardcore PC gamers who seem to insist that PC's just kick so much more ass. While I agree on a few of his points about how consoles can get a bit boring and anyone can make a console game nowadays I had this to say. When was the last time you have to go buy a 200 dollar graphics card to play a game on your console correctly? In my days of EverCrack I was as addicted as anyone. That is untill the game stopped working. I had to run out, get a Geforce 3 MX400 and some more RAM just to play properly. Thats why I cant wait for the PS2 version of EQ. Me and my buddies camping, killing various things and than insulting anyone who dares touch our "ph4t l3wtz" A console version of an addicting PC game. Perfect for me...

[The NZA]

That's interesting; usually PC to console converts have problems.

Besides differnt markets (PC RPGs are a far cry from console ones; as far as MMORPG's like EverCrack or FPS' like Quake, most people who want to play em already are, and therefore they dont sell well), they have the periphrial problem - people like Yahven think a mouse & keyboard combo are the ultimate control; while i still think the Gamecube has the best control out there. Point is, recent systems do sell keyboards, mice, and now even external hard drives (I think X-box has an internal one), but are you willing to buy the game and those periphrials, when 1) its just for that one game and 2) you already have those items on your PC?

If so, that's cool, but not many people will.

Even great games that are massive sucesses on PC such as Deus Ex and Max Payne barely make a wave on consoles, its a tricky thing.

[Jesus_was_Goth]

I'll have to agree with the Deus Ex/Max Payne thing. I tried them on the PC and they were great. But than the PS2 ports came out and they dissappointed me. They were still good, just not the same.

 

Well, the whole periphrials thing wont be too much of a problem. The only thing im probably going to by is the USB keyboard. Thats all Im really going to need for EQ. But for other games like Final Fantasy XI your gonna need to go by an $80 hard drive, the $20 keyboard and the game for about 5o bucks. So its really coming down to the developers to make the online consoles work. The company itself just needs to keep there servers up and running.

[The NZA]

True, and the FFXI servers in Japan had a rough time starting out, not sure how theyre doing now. But you make a good point: to get me to fork over for the game, the keyboard and the drive, all before online fees - Final Fantasy license or not - i have to see somethin really incredible with a lot of people online.

I really thought it'd be this generation of consoles that'd make in online in the mainstream, its looking more and more like it might be the next batch. Might be for the better as DSL goes standard, i guess.

[Guest Yahve]

with pc prices dropping and console prices rising.... i have reason to believe nextgen consoles will be uncomfortably near pc prices... ready to go console with periferals shd go for around 500 while a ready to go pc shd be around 800. the lines are getting closer.

 

 

.... one day, they shall become ONE.

[The NZA]

Nah, console prices are same as it ever was, i think.

You still cant sell one for over $300; most go for $200 or less. Games still retail at $50 a pop or so, which is actually cheaper than when it was on cartridge.

PC's, Compaq-type ready out of the box may go for that prcie, but you & I know those ones are shit, and the average consumer ont piecemeal it. But youre right in that the average consumer will apparently by the Compaq type setup.

Ive heard & though bout your merging theory, and it seems it just might happen, but ya gotta admit itd happen on the console's side. Sale comparisons are a joke, and our average consumer wants to pop in the disc & play on whatver Sony's sold em, not download patches and drivers. So, Consoles go online, get standard hard drives & such - all while hopefully avoiding blue screens, eh? - and PC games stay the nicheh market that they are. Doesnt sound like a complete merge to me, or do you see it going some other way?

[Guest Yahve]

consoles can go above 300 easily. get them new and add HD, keyboard & mouse, multitap, memory cards, network adapters and 3 mroe controllers and u tell me how much that wld cost.

 

 

PC's are getting cheaper and cheaper, FPS aside, they are good enough to play most any PC game on.

 

I really dont have a clue as to how its going to really pan out, but my money is on the console being an extension or networked part of a PC. I look to the xbox2 as how microsoft sees our future to be. xbox2 will take over the home entertainment center, the PC takes over as the computing central of a home. our homes will have brains now, easily interactive elements from one central node. coffee, groceries, temperature, mail, TV guide, games, will all be accessed thru the central node. xbox1 may even make it as such in a few years. only time will tell

[The NZA]

Eh...still think you can get good console - especially next generation ones - outta the box, hard drive included so no need for memory card yet, for under $300. No multitap either, and mouse + keyboard, that's less than $50, So add few controllers, youre still talkin less than $400; in the case of the GameCube, its even cheaper, not to mention more reliable, and for half the price - i still dont think the prices are comparable, wont be for a while. Even if theyre even, cant deny that PC gaming is a niche market, even with FPS's.

 

You might be right bout the PC extension nonsense, but... remember for the sake of general entertainment, the U.S. market is infinitely more comofrtable with consoles than PC's, sales alone oughta show that.

And i dunno, i know youve seen schematics but i still think you overestimate microsoft, naive as that sounds - your Jetson-style networked home, aside from sounding horribly sci-fi & vulnerable to entropy, seems as reasonable a prediction as flying cars by the year 2000: it sounded feesable 'till you really thought about what it entailed: R&D, production, advertising (get the average consumer to trust Microsoft beyond its OS), transition (these things can take a decade or two, ask my mom about her beta-max), etc. Either way, youre right about the fact that time will tell.

[Guest Yahve]

Microsoft will find a way around its name recognition problem, shit if they ally with AOL they'd be # 1.

 

If its really a bother, they ll just create a company and use that name instead of MS. The sad thing is the technology to do so is here today, so its all about entrepenurism and advertising... i feel its so close, my guess is that they will attempt the feat as soon as the economy turns upward. aka. we go to war with iraq.

[The NZA]

Christ, i dont ever wanna see em unite with Aohell...

youre eager for this type of networked home, arent you? I still dont see how ya dont get blue screens & such on your comp and fear what might happen when that kind of coding controls so many elements of your home...I'm not saying I wanna be in a log cabin on Walden pond here, but i dont know if i trust that kind of home at all. Is my toaster telling affiliates what kind of bread i make, and when? What else is the traitorous bastard telling? Will my TV have popups now? I think im gonna go read Farenheit 451 again now.

[BigChiefSlapaho]

Dont' worry, wont' happen.

 

MS owns Internet Explorer.

AOL owns Netscape.

 

Unless Bill gets the nut-itch to buy something else...

[TopDawg540]

Yeah if two monopolies evolved into a supermonopoly that would be too obvious for their taste.

 

;)

[Guest Yahve]

I was just crusing the web when I found this little preview on how small pc's are getting, more powerful and smaller than a console. Check out hte new micro PC line.

[The NZA]

Quick question for the PC crowd:

Penny Arcade bitches a bit about new PC games, Tribes 2, the new Command & Conquer, etc and how they all need patches the day you buy them, and then patches for their patches to work...it really sounds like they get gyped, ponying up the $ and gettin a buggy game until its fixed the way it shouldve been before release...does anyone else encouter such problems?

Also, TD, Chief etc - Master of Orion 3 is either out or on its way, and they seem to be enjoyin it, check it out.

[TopDawg540]

MOO3 is gonna kick ass!!!

 

And as far as PC patches yeah sometimes games get rushed out the door and need heavy patching, sometimes (like Diablo 2) game balance is an issue online and occasional tweaking needs to be done. But all in all, Most PC games come out working well and any patching is optional to improve the game if you like what the patch does.

 

Games are actually better in recent years about patching than before. When floppy disks were the mainstream data format, Bad disks and irregular compression, disk spanning errors, a whole shebang of things could go wrong. Or flat out the game ran out of room and you had to DL a patch to finish the install, or get a very basic game and Dl all the enhancements.

 

Honestly I had to swap out Disks so often because of retarts smashing the boxes on the security device magnets i felt like kicking people. CD format rocks.

 

So... PC game patches happen, but 90% of the time its not a hassle. usually quick Dl times and easy installs.