The NZA Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Ah, retcons. the reason nothing in comics ever sticks. Mind you, sometimes, its something useful - post-crisis Superman was depowered and better for it; Batman's been streamlined, Captain America killing nazis in WW II (with child-soldier Bucky!) was awesome, etc. But so, so much awful shit has happened thats either been brushed under the carpet or completely forgotten, that i figure we could use a thread of shame, and that be this. I'm gonna basically name a character, and try to put some of the best (and by that, often worst) retcons to discuss/lament and see who recalls/read what. good times! Let's start with one of the more famous characters. Spider-Man -In House of M, Peter lived a good life! then had it taken away, and worse yet, remembers it. from wiki: In the "House of M", a Marvel crossover, the Scarlet Witch alters reality to make mutants the ruling class over humans. This world is ruled by mutants and their leader, Magneto. In the mini-series Spider-Man: House of M, Peter Parker is believed to be a mutant, and Spider-Man's identity is widely known. He is rich, famous and married to Gwen Stacy, and they have a young son named Ritchie. Aunt May and Uncle Ben are alive and in good health, and J. Jonah Jameson is Peter's often-abused publicist. Unfortunately, his life unravels when Jameson reveals to the world that Spider-Man is not a born mutant. After the world is restored to normal, Peter suffers terribly with the memory of the life he left behind, expressing a desire to kill Magneto, who he mistakenly believes was behind the events of House of M, and the Scarlet Witch, whose powers were responsible for the altered reality. pretty awful, huh? he was all kinds of fucked up for like an issue or two, then forgot the whole thing. i guess all that trauma makes shit like this pass easier? -a popular one: Spidey once tried to shake his powers, way back in Amazing Spider-Man #100, and grew 8 arms, at least for that issue. -i really dont want to talk about One More Day. While we're at it, the less said about that time Peter had claws and basically ate a vampire's face and then he died and came back with powers that no one remembers, the better. -Norman Osborn knocked up Gwen Stacy (with Twins!) before he famously killed her as the Green Goblin. True story. Thanks, JMS! you were so good on that book, i dont know what happened. -Trouble is the big daddy here: basically, as teens, Mary (peter's momma) and Aunt May saved up, went to some work-at-summer camp thing, and as i recall it, slept around a lot (this was Marvel's Epic line, an early attempt at MAX or something). Point is, Aunt May totally got knocked up and her sister Mary agrees to raise the kid as her own. That's right, AUNT MAY = PETER'S MOM, im not making this up, go ask Panch if you want to see grown-man tears. that was fun. much more to come, he's got some great moments. Looking at this, i should change the title to mention embarrassing or crazy moments as well as retcons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 To be fair the last one was retconned before it was even released, Marvel decided that that turn of events didn't even make sense so they just decided it was some other Mary, May, Ben, and Richard. What a tweest. I think we need to do Iron-Man next, teenage Tony Stark is much better than JMS' craziness and One More Day combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 yeah, Trouble's been ignored/basically retconned, but it happened, by god! as for your vote...well, then! let's not have panch cry alone, Chief bears scars from this stuff as well (i think i still have the issue where the 2 fought). from wiki: The story arc "The Crossing" reveals Iron Man as a traitor among the Avengers' ranks, due to years of manipulation by the time-traveling dictator Kang the Conqueror. Stark, as a sleeper agent in Kang's thrall, kills Marilla, the nanny of Crystal and Quicksilver's daughter Luna, as well as Rita DeMara, the female Yellowjacket, then an ally of the Avengers (the miniseries Avengers Forever later retcons these events as the work of a disguised Immortus, not Kang, and that the mental control had gone back only a few months). Needing help to defeat both Stark and the ostensible Kang, the team travels back in time to recruit a teenaged Anthony Stark from an alternate timeline to assist them. The young Stark steals an Iron Man suit in order to aid the Avengers against his older self. The sight of his younger self shocks the older Stark enough for him to regain momentary control of his actions, and he sacrifices his life to stop Kang. The young Stark later builds his own suit to become the new Iron Man, and, remaining in the present day, gains legal control of "his" company. During the battle with the creature called Onslaught, the teenaged Stark dies, along with many other superheroes. However, Franklin Richards preserves these "dead" heroes in the "Heroes Reborn" pocket universe, in which Anthony Stark is once again an adult hero; Franklin recreates the heroes in the pocket universe in the forms he is most familiar with rather than what they are at the present. The reborn adult Stark, upon returning to the normal Marvel Universe, merges with the original Stark, who had died during "The Crossing", but was resurrected by Franklin Richards. This new Anthony Stark possesses the memories of both the original and teenage Anthony Starks, and thus considers himself to be essentially both of them. With the aid of the law firm Nelson & Murdock, he successfully regains his fortune and, with Stark Enterprises having been sold to the Fujikawa Corporation following Stark's death, sets up a new company, Stark Solutions. He also returns from the pocket universe with a restored and healthy heart. After the Avengers reform, Stark demands a hearing be convened to look into his actions just prior to the Onslaught incident. Cleared of wrongdoing, he rejoins the Avengers. what i recall that's not mentioned here is that, to get around the whole "young stark didnt go to war/have his heart injury", old stark, when fighting him, basically rips it out of him before going down. so that's how young Tony also had cardio problems....yeah. Stark's gone back into the medieval era to do battle with Doom, and none of it was as awkward as this shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 huh, never heard the term "retcon" before. i of course knew of the practice, but didn't know it had this term attached to it. now i know, and knowing blah, blah blah. i'm not a big spidey fan. i read all the mcfarlane era issues back in the day, and more recently all the road to civil war stuff up to Brand New Day. meh, mephisto wanted their "love." christgodalmighty my eyes rolled back far enough to see my medulla oblongata after reading that bit of retcon'n. not sure if bringing jason todd back from the dead constitutes "retcon' but it sucks. totally lessens the impact of the whole "Death in the Family" arc, which i loved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 not sure if bringing jason todd back from the dead constitutes "retcon' but it sucks. totally lessens the impact of the whole "Death in the Family" arc, which i loved. Wasn't that a result of Superboy Prime donkey punching the fabric of the universe? Totally counts and it's totally stupid. Whatabout that shit with Xorn in the Morrison X-Men run? I aint spoiler tagging the following, so stop reading if you give a shit. So Xorn turns out to be Magneto, who dies in a battle royale. Later they decide that he wasn't Xorn, just some guy pretending to be him who thought he was Magneto, who was being controlled by some other dude. Then they introduce a twin of the first guy. Ruins a perfectly good storyline to keep a good, marketable character around. Kinda like the shit with Jean Grey/ Phoenix during the Claremont run. He went to a lot of trouble to kill that bitch off, it was a very emotional moment in the grand soap opera X-Men he was writing. The bitch died. Then here comes whatever guy was doing X-Factor and decided he wants the original X-Men lineup, so they decide that Jean didn't die, the Phoenix force created a duplicate of her and had the real Jean stashed in the ocean in suspended animation or something. Takes the wind out of the whole story. In the Barry Windsor-Smith Weapon X mini-series they're clearly surprised that the adamantium is accumulating in his hands, Wolvie's claws being something of an unintended accident, later intentional added weaponry. And then a part of his mutation, and he's had them all along. Then he wasn't even a mutant, he was some other species evolved from wolves and Sabretooth was a member of an opposing tribe... I can dig the bone claws, the rest is terrible. I'm surprised to see no mention of the spider god shit up there with the Spidey retcons. I never read any of that, but I remember the previews looking pretty WTF-ish. BTW, that issue of What If... where he keeps all his extra arms is the shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 oh god, i lay that on Chuck Austen's door (he was the one who fucked up much of morrison's remains, yes? i stopped reading around then). I was a fan of Xorn, and after his solo issue, saying it was Mags felt like the weakest part of New X-Men for me, and i adored that book. the follow-up was just insane, i read it on wiki and it involved his brother or something? yeah, most dramatic deaths get cheapened that way...i always forget about jean's cause, you know, bitch dies a lot. Plus shit was so screwy by the point of Inferno with Madelyn Pryor (clone Jean) that its hard to focus on the better parts. i had like one TPB of that classic X-men lineup in X-Factor, i wanna say it was when Cyk first killed Apocalypse? anyway. Weapon-X was also supposed to have A-poc on the other end of the phone, according to Cleremont (then again, wasnt he on board with Wein for a bit with the whole " should be a mutated wolverine? ). i too dug the bone claws, but trust me, we've got a lot to cover when we get to wolvy. JMS' spider-god thing i just gave a pass in light of the Osborn twins and other such shit, i recall around that point thinking he clearly wanted to be on Dr Strange or some sci-fi shit they werent yet giving him, so he decided to do it there. I actually dug the early bits of his take on the pete's origin (totem spider, etc) with Ezekiel but yeah, that shit was weirder than Madame Web. come to think of it, i should read that What If. anyway, thread needs more LoganPrime - pick a character and go nuts, man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newtype Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Any DC comic from the past 20+ years Crisis Zero hour hyper time and 2 more crisis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 yes, jean grey is definitely retcon clusterfuck. i can't keep up w/ her and her clones and their kids. fuckin' befuddlin' all that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted December 1, 2009 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 i dont see what the big deal is, really. Jean died at the end of the Phoenix saga, but it was the phoenix and not her so when Madelyne Prior showed up everyone thought it was her, and her baby with Cyclops (Cable) was stolen into the future by Apocalypse and given a techno-organic virus to keep him from reaching full, potential, right? so he came back and he's older than his dad but later they had Scott & real-Jean go into the future to raise him so that worked out. Of course, the genetic real-deal is Nate Grey, aka X-Man who comes from a timeline where Xavier's son went back in time to kill Mags but accidentally killed his own dad (OMG TIME PARADOX) so the X-Men werent there to stop Apocalypse from owning America in the ass and you know, Mr Sinister used Scott's DNA with Jean's remotely cause Jean was with the one-armed Wolverine (he lost it fighting Scott. LOL!) but since Bishop helped fix shit with the M'kraan crystals its like that timeline never happened, even though people keep crossing over from it (Holocaust, Sugar Man, Blink, Nate etc). Oh yeah! Cable coughed up the organic virus once and then burned out his powers holding up an entire city while fighting people so he's mostly powerless right now and i think Liefeld gave him back the virus, doesnt matter anyway cause he's jumping through dystopian futures right now with a genocidal Bishop chasing him and the last mutant girl alive (i have $10 with arch going that its not Jean grey as a kid, cause that'd hurt my brain). see, haku? nothing to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 sure thing, Custard. You tell me what other obvious Red headed, green eyed Mutie tied to the X-Men as an overpowerd 'savior' existed prior. I was right about Secret Invasion, I was right about Civil War and I'll be right about this, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsmithx Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 The spinoff from the runaways, the loners, looks to be full of b-list hero retcon goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 i dont see what the big deal is, really. Jean died at the end of the Phoenix saga, but it was the phoenix and not her so when Madelyne Prior showed up everyone thought it was her, and her baby with Cyclops (Cable) was stolen into the future by Apocalypse and given a techno-organic virus to keep him from reaching full, potential, right? so he came back and he's older than his dad but later they had Scott & real-Jean go into the future to raise him so that worked out. Of course, the genetic real-deal is Nate Grey, aka X-Man who comes from a timeline where Xavier's son went back in time to kill Mags but accidentally killed his own dad (OMG TIME PARADOX) so the X-Men werent there to stop Apocalypse from owning America in the ass and you know, Mr Sinister used Scott's DNA with Jean's remotely cause Jean was with the one-armed Wolverine (he lost it fighting Scott. LOL!) but since Bishop helped fix shit with the M'kraan crystals its like that timeline never happened, even though people keep crossing over from it (Holocaust, Sugar Man, Blink, Nate etc). Oh yeah! Cable coughed up the organic virus once and then burned out his powers holding up an entire city while fighting people so he's mostly powerless right now and i think Liefeld gave him back the virus, doesnt matter anyway cause he's jumping through dystopian futures right now with a genocidal Bishop chasing him and the last mutant girl alive (i have $10 with arch going that its not Jean grey as a kid, cause that'd hurt my brain). see, haku? nothing to it. Um, yeah. Clear as mud. Srsly tho, I knew about "X-Man" as I read him for a few years after AOA and I knew the history of Cable, but I am way behind on my X-history. I knew Cable was jumping around w/ the last mutant child (this is due to M-Day Scarlet Witch skulduggery, correct?) but doesn't Stryfe fit in there somewhere as an alternate reality Nathan Sommers--or was he clone? Also didn't Scott & Jean travel through time to raise Nathan/Cable in the mini-series Askani's Son? And I haven't read the latest CABLE series, but I do like Arc's theory about re-incarnated Jean Grey. It sound slike a Marvel kinda move... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 sure thing, Custard. You tell me what other obvious Red headed, green eyed Mutie tied to the X-Men as an overpowerd 'savior' existed prior. I was right about Secret Invasion, I was right about Civil War and I'll be right about this, too. im so, so hoping you're wrong, i just think itd be ridiculous. wait, what were you right about SI and CW with? The spinoff from the runaways, the loners, looks to be full of b-list hero retcon goodness. i admittedly havent read runaways since Whedon kinda let me down at the end there - whats Loners about, who's on board? Um, yeah. Clear as mud. Srsly tho, I knew about "X-Man" as I read him for a few years after AOA and I knew the history of Cable, but I am way behind on my X-history. I knew Cable was jumping around w/ the last mutant child (this is due to M-Day Scarlet Witch skulduggery, correct?) but doesn't Stryfe fit in there somewhere as an alternate reality Nathan Sommers--or was he clone? Also didn't Scott & Jean travel through time to raise Nathan/Cable in the mini-series Askani's Son? And I haven't read the latest CABLE series, but I do like Arc's theory about re-incarnated Jean Grey. It sound slike a Marvel kinda move... yeah, you're right about this being the House of M fallout (Hope being the last new mutant) and christ, howd i forget Stryfe when summarizing the madness? yeah, X-force recently tied back into him and Apocalypse in one timeline Cable got stuck in, was fun 90s shit for a bit there but i think this Necrosha (Blackest Night-lite) might be wearing thin for me right now. and yeah, you're spot on with AOA and the Askain Son minis/events. Im not saying Joel's insane, im saying i truly hope he's wrong and we're looking at a new character at the very least. she's developing into something cool and we still dont even know her power set yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 re: cable/jean grey clusterfuck i need to read this current cable series, i've got them all DL'd. just need to find time/motivation to read 'em. and i did a lil' research on wiki and found out the current marvel girl (rachel grey-summers) is really the alternate reality offspring of scott & jean. she was the mother askani from the cable miniseries i mentioned. you probably knew all this already though, as her character has been around for a while. anyway, yeah stryfe is a clone of cable/nathan christopher summers. and i also just found out there is a third skywalker summers brother. isn't papa summers corsair from starjammers as well? fuckin' x-men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 all of what you just said is tragically true, and worse yet, knowledge from my misspent youth. the only upside is i feel i was able to grasp abstract concepts much easier in college because of shit like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I could do mine with the retcons in Marvel Zombies, but nobody cares anymore. I admit that with the apes crossing over even I can't give a fuck anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 ...and i also just found out there is a third skywalker summers brother. isn't papa summers corsair from starjammers as well? fuckin' x-men. Are you talking about "X-Treme"? That guy makes me so ashamed to be reading comics in the early nineties. That backwards hat is totally rad and all, but I can't stands him. But yeah, he was originally intended to be the 3rd Summers brother. It wasn't really nailed down concrete. Daddy Summers is in the Starjammers and Mama was the only known human female in Shi'ar space, Adam X is a hybrid human/ Shi'ar...so.../shrug. From wiki: Introduced in X-Force Annual #2, Adam X was thought to be the son of Catherine Summers and Shi'Ar Emperor D'Ken. While this origin was never confirmed in the comics themselves, Adam is half-human, and Katherine was the only known human woman in Shi'ar space at the time. X-Men #39 (Dec. 1994) featured a story about Adam discovering Philip Summers (father of Christopher Summers and grandfather of Cyclops and Havok) in the Alaskan wilderness and feeling an unusual connection to the old man. Nicieza later confirmed that he intended Adam X to be the half-brother of Cyclops and Havok: “ ADAM X was INTENDED to be the illegitimate offspring of D'Ken and Kate Summers. Taken from D'Ken and raised on a farming planet. ” I'm pretty sure someone with some sense decided they didn't want this douche to be that important a figure in X-lore and squashed that before it technically happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 re: x-treme wow. just. yeah, wow. where the fuck did that guy come from? i somehow managed to remain blissfully unaware of the braided haired, backwards-cap wearing version of what looks to be a cross between stryfe, wolverine, and a bad weekend on the jersey shore circa 1993. the third summers brother is apparently a guy named VULCAN according to wiki, and he was introduced not that long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 The original retcon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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