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Hip-Hop is dead (to panch)


Panch

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When rappers say that 'hip-hop is dead', what exactly are they saying? Shit, anyone can see that the shit has taken a turn for the worst. But why aren't they doing anything about it? This current era of the 'autotune' is just a step further away from a revival for hip-hop. But this isn't the beginning of the end. Hip-hop has been slowly bleedin' out for a while now. Before autotune was this 'R&B/dance/pop Chris Brown' shit. Before that was the 'let's everyone make dirty south tracks regardless where you're from'. Before that was the 'crunk era' (which lead to the previous sentence). Before that was the 'candy paint drippin, check out my grills, Texas' bullshit. Before that was the FIRST 'crunk era'! Before that was the 'I'm Kanye. I'm conscious, but I still rap about Louis Vuitton'. See where I'm going with this? What ever happened to the days when hip-hop said something... or at least was aggressive? Dudes were hungry in those days. Now, anyone with a gimmick can be a Rapstar! I'm so sickened by the state of rap right now that I don't know what to do. I try to listen to the few acts that are at least attempting to 'keep it real', but I can't help that wherever I go, whoever I run into is humming or singing some bullshit that is currently on the radio. But how can I blame them!? In an hour you can hear the same song 4 times if you flip the stations! And it's usually a young person. What the fuck do they know? 2Pac and Biggie were already long dead before they were born. Oh! When I hear an adult singing/talking about some bullshit currently polluting the airwaves I feel like smackin' them. Don't even get me started on ringtones. Anyways, what's the solution? When are we gonna see a savior rise and usher in a NEW era? A new era that's a little bit more like the old. Or are we about to bury hip-hop?

 

Edited by Panch
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When rappers say that 'hip-hop is dead', what exactly are they saying? Shit, anyone can see that the shit has taken a turn for the worst. But why aren't they doing anything about it? This current era of the 'autotune' is just a step further away from a revival for hip-hop. But this isn't the beginning of the end. Hip-hop has been slowly bleedin' out for a while now. Before autotune was this 'R&B/dance/pop Chris Brown' shit. Before that was the 'let's everyone make dirty south tracks regardless where you're from'. Before that was the 'crunk era' (which lead to the previous sentence). Before that was the 'candy paint drippin, check out my grills, Texas' bullshit. Before that was the FIRST 'crunk era'! Before that was the 'I'm Kanye. I'm conscious, but I still rap about Louis Vuitton'. See where I'm going with this? What ever happened to the days when hip-hop said something... or at least was aggressive? Dudes were hungry in those days. Now, anyone with a gimmick can be a Rapstar! I'm so sickened by the state of rap right now that I don't know what to do. I try to listen to the few acts that are at least attempting to 'keep it real', but I can't help that wherever I go, whoever I run into is humming or singing some bullshit that is currently on the radio. But how can I blame them!? In an hour you can hear the same song 4 times if you flip the stations! And it's usually a young person. What the fuck do they know? 2Pac and Biggie were already long dead before they were born. Oh! When I hear an adult singing/talking about some bullshit currently polluting the airwaves I feel like smackin' them. Don't even get me started on ringtones. Anyways, what's the solution? When are we gonna see a savior rise and usher in a NEW era? A new era that's a little bit more like the old. Or are we about to bury hip-hop?

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Its not dead, its just hibernating until people like 50 cent fuck off.

 

50's not the problem. Not by a long shot. Yeah, he's a douche, but so was 2Pac before he... ahem, got shot (plus, I like 50). It's people like Soljah Boy, Gucci Mane and Wayne's Young Money crew (just to name a few off the top of my head) that're infecting hip-hop. Love ya, Jax...

 

Where's Nick?

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Remember back in the day, when things were better than they are now? Darn kids are ruining everything nowadays. They don't appreciate what makes music good.

- Pancho Rio, and every old person once they got old, ever.

Edited by Reverend Jax
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oh, jax is commenting on the current state of hip-hop! this is adorable. its like when he talks on games, or me on sports. tongue.gif

 

what panch is referring to isnt just passing tastes, per se - a great deal of mainstream hip-hop artists have noted this in recent years (i recall interviews with missy, jay-z, so many others saying the same thing) that the subject matter you can rap on and expect radio promotion is getting smaller and smaller. i may consider '91-'94 to be hip-hop's golden age (no doubt KRS-1 and older guys will cite the late 80's) but i do so because of the versatility MCs could have then: there was room for NY jazzy shit, west coast gangsta rap coming up, kid-n-play party shit, lotta experimentation going on etc and R&B had its own thing entirely: lotta good music, lotta people were able to make money.

 

Ghostface Killah often says hip-hop right now is like WWF: you need a gimmick. i recall feeling that way not so much with 50 as with G-Unit: here was a group put together by a label, i thought. a NY guy, someone from down south to represent that, etc...fast forward a few years, i think 1 of the 3 members is still on their roster. so yeah, we went from crunk to more clubbangers to cell-phone rap, which is what miami gets identified with a lot right now.

 

to play devil 1.gif 's advocate though: is gimmicky cell-phone shit like laffy taffy or any of the current icy/etc shit any less goofy than the booty scene we had here 15 years back? Luke, Quad City DJs, Poison Clan, Uncle Al etc did the same kinda made-for-the club/radio shit...its just that there was more going on around it in different places. When Nas says hip hop is dead, i think he means the radio, personally - there still is all kinds of shit going on around the gimmicks, its just not getting play. id argue there's more and more people doing/trying different things, there's just a smaller % of people eating the pie.

 

maybe its clear channel's fault for having their strategy of looping something enough to make it sell, maybe its DJs or artists, im not sure. we kinda decide someone like Lil Wayne will be last year's captain save-a-song and boom, he's on 1/3 radio hip-hop (and many R&B hooks) tracks. Meanwhile, dudes like Kanye and Lupe can make money doing their thing, but for each of them, there's hundreds (if not thousands) of backpackers, jay electronicas and such that have their own thing to say but dont really come up, like there's a quota or something. you see it right now with Drake: he's all over the place, and you get the feeling there's tons of guys like him in line somewhere.

 

anyway...there's an upside to this, which is that artists im fond of are working harder to put out quality (this year we've got GZA, Nas, Shad, more Wu etc), and sub-genres i didn't know about like Jazz Rap are being created to expand what hip-hop can be about.

at some point in the next 10 years or whenever, hip-hop won't go away but i think its possible it'll no longer be one of the top money-making genres on the radio (returning it to i dont know, pop? club/house stuff? reaggeton?! no idea) and itll still have a mainstream scene, but at that point, i personally think itll be less structured like the NFL, where we currently have a very small # of artists with very large contracts and a lotta people starving, i like to think either the spread might even out (if even a little bit) or if not, maybe hip-hop will go more like jazz is right now, at some point: yeah, you got people like Kenny G doing elevator muzak for $, but most aren't really making much and are doing it for love of the music. i dont think that's a bad thing.

 

TL;DR

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:ifyouknowwhatimean: hah, alright, maybe my fault. if panch/co dont wanna respond to that, we can take jax's angle: to what extent is the "hip hop is dead" thing just the older generation hating on the new? ive been accused of hip hop eletism a number of times here ( :arty: ) and ive come to accept the genre has room for plenty of things that dont speak to me; if others dig B.O.B., Waka Flocka Flame (man, meth had this dude's number, im just sayin'), etc that doesnt take from my stuff as long as it's being made, its just not where the mainstream's at.

 

again, ill point to like '91-'94 as hip hop's golden era, but reading RZA's book made me realize there's another perspective: (some of) the older dudes think it lost its way when the lyrics stepped in the direction they did, as they claim hip-hop started with DJ's, not MC's, and that it was about moving a party moreso than lyrical prowess. crunk, dirty south, autotune etc offer nothing to me, but there's clearly fans or so many MC's wouldnt be biting it.

 

ps obligatory Dylan.

 

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I'm not saying everyone has to go to the street corner and start battlin' everyone that walks by. Lord knows hip-hop can still exist in the mainstream. Biggie was the best example of this. The 'cloud I'm shaking my fist at' is the one that's raining down on the hip-hop parade in the form of corporate suits puttin' an act together based on gimmick... for money. Flo-Rida is one of these 'clouds'. Ariel and I have this convo all the time. He HATES Flo-Rida! Which to me is weird cause, Ariel being a DJ, I would think bullshit like Flo-Rida is his bread and butter. Even he has a hard time believing this guy's 'realness'. And I'm not just attacking Flo-Rida... there's dozens of acts just like him. Do I think acts like Wu-Tang are the answer either? No. Obviously, Wu-Tang is the other extreme. They're TOO underground. I wouldn't expect any of their songs to make the air waves outside of NY.

 

Even conscious rap has made their mark on the radio with Nas, Mos Def and Common but I think Kanye fucked it up for the rest of them. The guy walks the tight rope of conscious and bullshit. Falling off the wrong end most of the time. Nas is the only dude that can do it flawlessly.

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alright, here's some current shit im loving that wont get radio play, but if it did, i think it'd work/get rotation - quality, but the kind others can get into, i think. tell me what you think.

 

 

 

 

anyway, quality hip-hop still gets made by new guys too...its just not where the scene's at.

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Hey Saul, what do you have to say on the subject?

 

I'm falling up flights of stairs, scraping myself from the sidewalk, jumping from rivers to bridges, drowning in pure air.

Hip Hop is lying on the side of the road, half dead to itself.

Blood scrawled over its mangled flesh, like jazz, stuffed into an oversized record bag. Tuba lips swollen beyond recognition.

Diamond studded teeth strewn like rice at karma's wedding.

The ring bearer bore bad news. The minister of information wrote the wrong proclamation.

Now everyone's singing the wrong song.

Dissonant chords find necks like nooses. That nigga kicked the chair from under my feet. Harlem shaking from a rope, but still on beat.

"Damn that loop is tight. Nigga, found a way to sample the way the truth the light. Can't wait to play myself at the party tonight. Niggas are gonna die."

Cop car swerves to the side of the road.

Hip Hop takes its last breath.

The cop scrawls "vernacular manslaughter" onto a yellow pad, then balls the paper into his hand, deciding he'd rather free-style.

"You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to remain silent. You have the right to remain silent. And maybe you should have before your bullshit manifested."

These thugs can't fuck with me, they're too thugged out. Niggas think I'm bugged out, 'cause I ain't Sean John or Lugged out.

This ain't hip hop no more, son, it's bigger than that.

This ain't ghetto no more, black, it's bigger than black. So where my aliens at? Girl, we're all illegal. This system ain't for us. It's for rich people. And you ain't rich, dawg, you just got money. But you can't buy shit to not get hungry.

 

Telegram to Hip Hop:

Dear Hip Hop .(stop).

This shit has gone too far. (stop).

Please see that mixer and turntables are returned to Kool Herc. (stop).

The ghettos are dancing off beat. (stop).

The master of ceremonies have forgotten that they were once slaves and have neglected the occasion of this ceremony. (stop).

Perhaps we should not have encouraged them to use cordless microphones, for they have walked too far from the source and are emitting a lesser frequency (stop). Please inform all interested parties that cash nor murder have been added to the list of elements. (stop).

We are discontinuing our current line of braggadocio, in light of the current trend in "realness". (stop).

As an alternative, we will be confiscating weed supplies and replacing them with magic mushrooms, in hopes of helping niggas see beyond their reality. (stop).

Give my regards to Brooklyn.

These thugs can't fuck with me, they're too thugged out. Niggas think I'm bugged out, 'cause I ain't Sean John or Lugged out. This ain't hip hop no more, son, it's bigger than that. This ain't ghetto no more, black, it's bigger than black. So where my aliens at? Girl, we're all illegal. This system ain't for us. It's for rich people. And you ain't rich, dawg, you just got money. But you can't buy shit to not get hungry.

 

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Saul Williams: the only MC making hip-hop that logan listens to good track though.

 

Shad's new one, TSOL, comes out this week or so. Nas & Marley's "Distant Relatives" just leaked, Reflection Eternal's "Revolutions per minute" is due soon, Jadakiss got a new mixtape, Sage Francis did something, Em's next album is getting work, Detox could show up (?), and again, Liquid Swords 2. for me, this is the best year hip-hop has seen in a while.

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thank god at least one talentless scene excels at marginalizing itself.

seriously, if you listen to ICP's lyrics and think what they're doing took much time & talent...there's a tremendous amount of hip hop you're not listening to. i mean, they get away with some laffy-taffy type MCing that even old school rappers couldn't.

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Give the ICP fans credit... they're loyal. Can you even tell me who made the Laffy Taffy song without looking it up? Just like some folks don't get our Wu obsession... we just don't get their ICP obsession. Now, having compared the apples to oranges, I'm gonna take a scolding hot shower as punishment.

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yes...like eskimos are loyal to whale blubber. you learn to love what's in front of you, no doubt.

im serious, ive had to listen to a number of their tracks (when i worked at a music store, their album at the time was one of those i was supposed to hype that month, next to Fatboy Slim, who was actually awesome). id just been put in charge of the hip-hop section and after hearing said ICP album, i really wanted to quit. dont get me wrong, to each their own etc etc but seriously? i can rub my dick on the strings, but i doubt you'd say i was playing the violin.

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  • 3 weeks later...
that was really put on by him? huh. weird way of basically saying what russel simmons & others have said for a while now, though.

 

That's what I was thinking, the part at the end could have easily been edited into practically anything. Watching the last video, my first thought was "why does this exist?" I found a full version that has an explanation up front, lessens the shock a lot. It's amazing what you can do with some rolling Star Wars text.

 

 

Saul Williams: the only MC making hip-hop that logan listens to good track though.

 

How dare you? I listen to at least 5 others, so I'm kind of an authority on the subject.

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  • 2 years later...

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