Expanding on the works of our fathers: Why do we struggle with sequels

[Visitant]

Taken from my site: http://goodnightandgoodgame.com/

 

 

These days, you can’t go a week without hearing an announcement about a sequel or a remake whether it be a film or video game franchise. As avid fans of the series that we care about, the trailers for these, no matter the medium, fill us with hope and oftentimes take us back to the reason we loved these stories so much in the first place. A familiar sound or an enchanting song from a game we love gets our heart beating faster and we can’t wait to see what’s in store for us next when we finally slip that game into our consoles to settle in for another adventure.

 

We idealize the world of game development often, thinking that if a game franchise is popular, the team behind it will stay together forever and continue to weave these amazing tales for us as gamers to become immersed in once again. Sadly, game development is subject to all the laws of the real world, with teams breaking apart like “Team Silent” of the Silent Hill franchise leaving so they could pursue their own personal projects. Sometimes these teams break apart under much worse conditions, like when game studios must file for bankruptcy and the talents behind their biggest games are forced to go elsewhere. Oftentimes when this happens, our beloved properties go to other teams who try to recapture our imaginations with their own unique spins on the titles we love and more often than not, they create something that we are ultimately disappointed with.

 

Often when we hear about a game that is part of a series we care about, usually at one of the bigger gaming tradeshows, the team behind that game will come out on stage and say something along the lines of: “We know what made this franchise great and we are dedicated to bringing that same sense of action/horror/RPG elements together again to make an experience you will all enjoy”. When the release of that title finally happens we end up with another Silent Hill: Downpour (Metacritic score 68/100) or Final Fantasy XIII (IGN score 8.9/10) and while we hear that these games are good from critics, the backlash from the fan base is overwhelming: “You didn’t live up to your promise of this being the next X game.”

 

So the question to be asked is this: Are we able to actually create a game that lives up to the legacy of the previous titles when the main development team is gone or are we as gamers so obsessed with our own nostalgia for these titles that we can’t even begin to fathom a sequel or remake for a franchise we love being better than the games that came before it?

 

The argument could be made either way for these questions but at its core, we as gamers want both. We hope for a game franchise to continue on past its creator’s inception but oftentimes our nostalgia does cloud our perception of those games that came before. Take for instance the October 2010 reimagining of the franchise Castlevania. Up until this point, all 3D attempts at making a Castlevania title were met with both fan and critical disgust and the idea of creating another 3D Castlevania game was almost considered too taboo to even try again, and why should anyone want to? The 2D series had not only extremely high marks in every release but also had such tremendous commercial success that Konami could have, in theory, produced a title a year and done very well for themselves financially.

 

October 2010 came and went and Castlevania was released to mixed feelings from the masses. Many exclaimed that because it was a new story that deviated from the (already convoluted, let’s be honest here) main continuity or “canon”, because it was a retelling, they refused to play it on principal alone. Others who took the time to play it said that it was a refreshing way to introduce new people into the series while still being very self-referential to the titles that came before it. At the end of the day, lines in the sand were drawn and shouts across the internet were of: “This isn’t the Castlevania that I loved growing up!”

 

This happens more often than not in the industry and as it does we become more tempered against the idea of remakes and re-imaginings. For every commercial success like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, we hear cries from the masses of their hatred of every Silent Hill: Downpour we get.

 

Is it truly that difficult to make a sequel or a remake to a beloved franchise? I have never done so myself, but I have read over and over again and spoken with game developers that say that it can be a very daunting task. When a game has a strong fan base, you have many people that you are trying to make happy and at the end of the day and you simply cannot please everyone. When a game developer takes the stage, they are not lying to us when they say they are excited to work on a project that is part of a franchise they played growing up even if it does not meet our expectations.

 

I feel that we as gamers need to take that into consideration when we approach these remakes and sequels that other teams work on. I have never spoken to a game developer that said that they have started a project with the intention of their product coming out less than satisfactory. They will talk about time constraints, budget constraints, but never creative constraints. Sometimes you just don’t have the time to make the game as perfect as you would like but the best you can do is get it as close to perfection as you can.

 

From there it is up to us, as gamers, to open our minds as well. It is far too easy for us to say things like: “I can’t play the new Silent Hill because Akira Yamaoka isn’t composing for it so it just won’t be the same”. This dismissive attitude is very unbecoming of us as a gaming community. The fact is that the chance for the original Chromo Trigger team to get back together is pretty minuscule and if we are given the opportunity to explore that universe again, we should embrace it. I am not saying don’t be critical of the games you play, simply that we should keep an open mind about the titles we have not had the opportunity to play.

 

To all you developers out there, we know how insanely daunting creating a sequel or remake of a franchise that has a strong following can be. Be true to your vision and the games that came before and it will show through.

 

(The full article has pictures and shit, but I was too lazy to put there here so just go to the site to read it) :P

[The NZA]

interesting piece, bindy...here's my thoughts!

 

for one thing, you gotta take into account that an overly-long gen like this last one was means less $ going around/more focus on sequels and less chances taken on new IPs

 

adly, game development is subject to all the laws of the real world, with teams breaking apart like “Team Silent” of the Silent Hill franchise leaving so they could pursue their own personal projects.

 

ive never been clear on this - the guys from Homecoming said Konami did the axing, while other stuff ive read had many key members leaving long before as they saw Konami's shitty management wanting to turn their series into a regular franchise (as seen with the shoe horning of part 4).

 

When the release of that title finally happens we end up with another Silent Hill: Downpour (Metacritic score 68/100) or Final Fantasy XIII (IGN score 8.9/10) and while we hear that these games are good from critics, the backlash from the fan base is overwhelming: “You didn’t live up to your promise of this being the next X game.”

 

oh man...seeing meta & IGN scores does not look good to me, haha. but (and while ive still yet to play downpour), both titles were known to be following beloved and varied franchises, while ending with deeply flawed products.

 

So the question to be asked is this: Are we able to actually create a game that lives up to the legacy of the previous titles when the main development team is gone or are we as gamers so obsessed with our own nostalgia for these titles that we can’t even begin to fathom a sequel or remake for a franchise we love being better than the games that came before it?

 

i largely think the former: when the team is gone, why take another one and tell them to emulate? you're not going to get the same magic, although the degree hinges on the specific entry/genre.

 

for instance, Takahashi hasn't been involved in a Katamari game since the 2nd one. is this a huge deal? well, only kind of; i managed to enjoy a few since, as they're just rolling things up in different places, but they do feel less interesting/inspired, with the better moments often being throwbacks to prior levels. whether you agree with me on the original design or think that nostalgia is of course up to you.

 

however, while i've heard surprisingly good things about the recent DMC & Tomb Raider, id wager you're far more likely to get a Duke Nukem Forever or the like when telling design teams - talented or not - to basically get in the minds of people before them. your SH is a good example, as it was a rather deep/layered project and various teams since then have, i think, conceptually had great ideas for another take/direction but stumbled on execution. Team Sonic clearly shows this for me, and even moreso they have to walk a line of appeasing some older fans by not deviating too very much, yet still doing something new. i don't envy them.

 

there are, of course, some teams i think absolutely excel at this - i love WayForward, and think they knocked both Contra 4 and Boy & His Blob out of the park. MGS Rising is looking awesome too, but i can't imagine doubting Platinum at this point.

 

Take for instance the October 2010 reimagining of the franchise Castlevania. Up until this point, all 3D attempts at making a Castlevania title were met with both fan and critical disgust and the idea of creating another 3D Castlevania game was almost considered too taboo to even try again, and why should anyone want to? The 2D series had not only extremely high marks in every release but also had such tremendous commercial success that Konami could have, in theory, produced a title a year and done very well for themselves financially.

 

i don't entirely agree here...i rather dug my time with Lament of Innocence, and heard good things about Curse of Darkness. also i don't think the igavanias made a fuckton of money, but they cost so little by reusing assets/etc that i could be wrong here. i will say dracula x chronicles, adventure rebirth etc didn't get what they deserved, as i recall.

i think the larger problem, again, is konami's fucking incompetence - they look at both CV and SH and want to make million+ sellers, when i don't think they're regularly going to do that at all, despite the absolute fan adoration both get.

 

October 2010 came and went and Castlevania was released to mixed feelings from the masses. Many exclaimed that because it was a new story that deviated from the (already convoluted, let’s be honest here) main continuity or “canon”, because it was a retelling, they refused to play it on principal alone. Others who took the time to play it said that it was a refreshing way to introduce new people into the series while still being very self-referential to the titles that came before it. At the end of the day, lines in the sand were drawn and shouts across the internet were of: “This isn’t the Castlevania that I loved growing up!”

 

after your LOS review, ive decided to give it another shake. but i don't think your last line is entirely fair - it's not unreasonable to have expectations of a series across so many decades, especially one that already has a somewhat fractured fanbase for tankavania and igavanias.

 

This happens more often than not in the industry and as it does we become more tempered against the idea of remakes and re-imaginings. For every commercial success like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, we hear cries from the masses of their hatred of every Silent Hill: Downpour we get.

 

to be fair, one of those was very commonly a GOTY candidate, and the other kinda panned.

 

Is it truly that difficult to make a sequel or a remake to a beloved franchise? I have never done so myself, but I have read over and over again and spoken with game developers that say that it can be a very daunting task. When a game has a strong fan base, you have many people that you are trying to make happy and at the end of the day and you simply cannot please everyone. When a game developer takes the stage, they are not lying to us when they say they are excited to work on a project that is part of a franchise they played growing up even if it does not meet our expectations.

 

I feel that we as gamers need to take that into consideration when we approach these remakes and sequels that other teams work on. I have never spoken to a game developer that said that they have started a project with the intention of their product coming out less than satisfactory. They will talk about time constraints, budget constraints, but never creative constraints. Sometimes you just don’t have the time to make the game as perfect as you would like but the best you can do is get it as close to perfection as you can.

 

From there it is up to us, as gamers, to open our minds as well. It is far too easy for us to say things like: “I can’t play the new Silent Hill because Akira Yamaoka isn’t composing for it so it just won’t be the same”. This dismissive attitude is very unbecoming of us as a gaming community. The fact is that the chance for the original Chromo Trigger team to get back together is pretty minuscule and if we are given the opportunity to explore that universe again, we should embrace it. I am not saying don’t be critical of the games you play, simply that we should keep an open mind about the titles we have not had the opportunity to play.

 

To all you developers out there, we know how insanely daunting creating a sequel or remake of a franchise that has a strong following can be. Be true to your vision and the games that came before and it will show through.

 

i hear you here but im kinda lost on the thesis, are you wanting to play the part of apologist for a particular franchise/entry? you're citing very specific examples with Yamaoka (which didn't save SH collection, heh), and while again i don't envy some devs either, i likewise don't think it wrong for fans to have a certain litmus on what the core experience of a game/series is. over a long enough timeline like, say, FF it can very greatly - i personally think anyone married to the ATB system can suck it, for example.

 

but what if the next FF pulled a Mass Effect, and largely dropped the RPG pretenses, would this be okay? if so, what wouldn't - we can quickly go to absurdity here, such as making it an FPS/football simulator hybrid. at what point is it no longer FF?

[Visitant]

i don't entirely agree here...i rather dug my time with Lament of Innocence, and heard good things about Curse of Darkness. also i don't think the igavanias made a fuckton of money, but they cost so little by reusing assets/etc that i could be wrong here. i will say dracula x chronicles, adventure rebirth etc didn't get what they deserved, as i recall.

 

I very much agree with you. I played all of Lament in one sitting and actually did enjoy Curse. They are just not as beloved as other entries and I didn't feel their mention worked well here.

 

i hear you here but im kinda lost on the thesis, are you wanting to play the part of apologist for a particular franchise/entry? you're citing very specific examples with Yamaoka (which didn't save SH collection, heh), and while again i don't envy some devs either, i likewise don't think it wrong for fans to have a certain litmus on what the core experience of a game/series is. over a long enough timeline like, say, FF it can very greatly - i personally think anyone married to the ATB system can suck it, for example.

 

but what if the next FF pulled a Mass Effect, and largely dropped the RPG pretenses, would this be okay? if so, what wouldn't - we can quickly go to absurdity here, such as making it an FPS/football simulator hybrid. at what point is it no longer FF?

 

This article actually started some time back when I wanted to write about how the Final Fantasy had progressively gotten worse with time and as the main creators pulled farther and farther away from it. After a while it felt more like unfairly beating on a franchise people still enjoy and I tried to write this in such a way that we as gamers and maybe game developers can consider what it takes to create remakes and reboots.

 

It's really hard to say how far you can go away from a games core concept and still have it be fun. People love the Mega Man battle network games don't they?

[The NZA]

well...it's kind've a game of numbers. there's fans of nearly every divergence - ive seen more mega man legends fans after 3 failed to happen than i thought existed at all.

 

playing lara uncrofted new tomb raider now, and i gotta say, any fans of the old series that bitch are gonna matter to me about as much as trekkies saying the last new film betrayed their boring shit: i respectfully do not care.

 

but yeah, FF XII's change in system/world was the best thing that series saw since VI, for me...so it's safe to say your mileage may vary. related:

[IceManML]

I'm not an mm legends fan but I think you're seeing starved mm fans vs legends fans. Plus hostility towards capcom though arguably unecessary... Is because of the negative journalism towards them. I still hate capcom btw... When I thought about the whole fiasco on on disc content, it woulda been same diff if they just chose to release it later in digital form. But Sony should be pissed since the same content is on the Xbox ver.

 

But I digresssssss.... Sequels are never the same because the producers are almost never the same as the original. Sorta like superbowl teams: after the current [product] reaches the pinnacle, individuals demand a bigger piece of the pie, no matter how unfeasible it may be.

 

But I never really have a gripe playing the qequel before the original... I usually enjoy both as totally individual games.

But distributors market these sequels on the coat tails of previously successful products.

 

Tho I kinda feel like that guy talking about stuff already mentioned.

[Maldron]

The new castlevania lords of shadow was unpleasant for tge inclusion if selfindulgent cake references, zelda references, and some of the worst voice acting patrick stewRt has ever offered, which was not only flat but telegraphed the reveal fromthe get go, all in service of a kickass final cutscene and a suggestion we wait for a sequel/dlc. Combat was unoffensive, but the story was so bad people were saying that patrick stewart cant do voice acting, despite his superb involvement in family guy amd american dad both. It was better than dante's inferno, at least.

 

People revere what they like. Its why nick and others flocked to shadiws of the damned. Powerbouse developer names came together to offer something mediocre and at time obnoxiously repetitive. All games should be jusged on their own merits, but any criticism on the whole is rebuffed by the adherents.

[Keth]

but yeah, FF XII's change in system/world was the best thing that series saw since VI, for me...so it's safe to say your mileage may vary. related:

 

 

You know what bugged me about XII? There was no main Bangaa character to play as. Or one of the pig guys. I mean, the boring characters themselves bugged me (Loved XII, but it had the most uninteresting characters in it since VIII imo). The main thing that kept me coming back to the Final Fantasies were getting to meet strange creatures in the world, and hopefully playing as them. Vivi, Kimari, Red XIII, Freya- I like the weirdos. Even Quina..... I never used her/him, but it looked cool. maybe I'm just secretly into furries....

 

 

 

 

Back on the topic of sequels- make it better and more fun than the last game and I'll be happy. If that means flipping the gameplay on it's head and changing some character designs so be it. DmC, Tomb Raider, and Darksiders 2 are good examples of this. If it is at the expense of the story I can usually forgive it too- The Darkness 2 and Darksiders 2 (again) good examples. If The game is not fun, I'm not gonna keep playing to see what happens.

[Iambaytor]

I will agree, Final Fantasy XII didn't have the token "weird" character (though really that trend didn't start until 6 with Mog/Umaro/Gogo) I would have to disagree that the characters were boring. The "main" (and I put that in quotes because Penelo, Vaan, and Ashe were no more main characters than anyone else was in that game, one of the things I liked about it actually) but Balthier and Fran were fucking awesome and I liked Basch even though he looked less like the world weary veteran he was supposed to be and more like a 30-year-old guy pretending to be a world weary veteran. I do wish there was a Bantha character though, or they could've found a way to shoehorn TG Cid in as a character. Ah well, it's still my favorite Final Fantasy game since part 6.

 

Also: Megaman Battle Network was the best thing to happen to Megaman ever and should hurry up and get some more sequels already.

[Visitant]

Baytor: I've always described Vaan as a "blank slate" character. ie: A character with very little backstory that is thrown into a fully fleshed out cast and through his/her eyes we can learn those characters backstories, care for them and help them to reach their goals. In that, I have always said that Balthiers story was at the forefront, with Ashe.

 

That being said, I actually loved XII. I can see why people did not however.

 

Axel: Is the Darkness 2 a departure from the first? I really adored that one.

 

Mald: I can see where you are coming from on the Castlevania front but given a series that has a bad reputation with its 3D incarnations among the general public, it was a welcome change for a lot of people (those who were not obsessed with the continuity of the previous games). The score was one of the best I've heard in a long time, and while Patrick Stewart was not up to par, a lot of that was not him but the audio director. Honestly they should have hired some of the crew that worked on Legacy of Kain because...god I love that series. I just can't quit loving it.

[Keth]

Axel: Is the Darkness 2 a departure from the first? I really adored that one.

 

It's kind of a strange sequel cause, it feels like the Darkness, but there are a lot of differences. The graphics are probably the most drastic change, cel shaded and comic booky, but done right, it doesn't ruin the tone. It's alot more linear and the story, while more fun, isn't as powerful (not many game moments can top Jenny's murder). It thrusts you right into the action though, and you feel like a badass the entire game, not just the last hour.