gunsmithx

I did, to be fair it is hard to contain it to just one topic(like it's ok for music but not games or ok to steal from sony but not from indie) the whole topic always ends up this way. I think it's because we don't really seperate it in our minds, it all falls under the same thing. George also makes a point that saying if it helps or hurt sales it's wrong to steal if the owner doesn't want it stolen. Otherwise we could then take anything for someones own good. I disagree in that I think you make a much stronger case for it hurting sales then it helping in all but some outlier cases.(and of course can we really tell anything with absolute certianity?) @nick I wanted to talk about some types of DRM I"m guessing it's time to try and bring back to life the DRM thread? @doj yes if you didn't pay for those then you commited theft, whats your point? @MH wait, you don't have a penis? but who will cock slap me now?

you know what, when you read my first post dude come back, the indie market isn't hurting... sigh... the was the whole point of my first post, thats what set me off, go read the article, go read jeff's blog he's been doing indie games for 15 years... seriously.

baytor- stuff that is truly out of print(Ie you can only go to the used market for it) is something of a moral grey area. while I don't think this happens much with books(and will stop happening when pretty much everything is an ebook) it happens with games and anime alot. Like I said thats a very grey area and I think for the most part it's just kinda ignored(no one gets served for nes roms) however with everything going digital this argument will hold less and less water as you'll be able to get stuff that is old due to things like emulators and digital copies. Imported stuff is less of a grey area because for the most part you can get it, it might not be at a price you like or it might take too long for you but you can still get it legally so yeah still theft there. Unless your talking about imported things you can not get because they are out of print, then back to the grey area.

Queen!

Yup and with kindle's now getting their own app store it'll be cake to do. I wonder though if amazon might not try direct sales too, they've got a couple of manga so expanding that would be awesome and would make sense.

like hookers? oh wait that is right :P Waiting on bish to post about some things we talked about so I don't steal his thunder(once he gets off mylittlepony.com anyway lol)

thats still fantastic(almost more for the archive stuff really) and I still say a steal at like 20 bucks(i'm really curious it's so low) It's getting very likely I'm at least gonna try it out for a month to check it out even though I'm more into DC atm. Any idea if they plan to come with a sort of special stand alone app you can install like the kindle reader so make bookmarking and such easy? oh man there is so much they can do with this.

Ok, first off as far as I can tell with homebrew it's basicly legal to do as long as it's not for piracy(yeah I know) but it's an odd grey area, but as far as I can tell they never go after the guys who hack the systems. 2. ASC, that quote you used of mine was in response to homebrew, so yeah... 3. baytor, if you really think that please read the articles where it's planily false. I'll stick to games but when doing tracking(stardock, world of goo) using leaderboards, 80 to 90% of the copies on their were pirated. This is a problem when people think that pirating helps(it does not) or has no effect(again please read the article I linked) Also it's not a bad copy in terms of games and I can find very good copies of books, movies and music(the exception being newly released films) in fact in terms of games it's normally a perfect copy. And most people who download a movie do not buy it, why? they have and have seen the film. 4. back to ASC, if you want to find me a better way to say then comparing to stealing something, go ahead, nick and I went over it for a while, we agreed that while it wasn't the same thing it was the same effect, you took something that wasn't yours and you did not pay for. Honestly this whole thing of it's ok, it' helps and it's not wrong is insane and your just lying to yourself, it's theft, deal with it, if you can't then you shouldn't be doing it, at least nick admits what he's doing when he does it. Like I said baytor, you have plenty of options(legal and ethical options) to see samples of products, but you dont' want samples, you just don't want to pay for things. oh and as for what doj posted, I can't really see youtube at work so I'll look at it when I get home.

I could have sworn you could modify your car to have police lights but not use them(there's also a saefty issues if you set your car up like a police car that doesn't exist in the psp that doesn't really translate well). Also you can legally as far as I know modify your care ECU(electrionc control unit) and many companies have but it voids your warrenty(and yes it requires cracking it) in fact thats normally the punishment, mdifiying your care enables the company to refuse you warranty service on problems the modified part can cause(ie I get new springs and my shocks blow for instance).

Yeah the used market has been it's own beast really, alot of dev's and companies don't really like it, but I doubt you'll find any industry that likes it when you buy used instead of new. The thing with libaries is also a social thing, as far as I know, outside of universities, just about all libraries are public, supported by local and sometimes federal goverments, again it's kind of it's own beast. As for used in terms of digital used I dunno, it's a moral grey area and the problem is it's easy, before if I borrowed a game I had to go to your house, or you came to mine, and for the most part only one of us had a copy. Now though I could say jay wants to lend me a game, but I'll just download it instead of flying to aussie land to get it... it completely changes the game, hell I'm sure I've read someone saying piracy was just alot of people 'borrowing' the game. It's alot of new ground to cover cause there really hasn't been anything like it before. This is the place where things get strange, we can agree that if a million people dl the game for free it's wrong, but if I download a game nick has cause I'm borrowing it, it's ok(maybe). A problem of scale maybe? And the fact I can't... lend out my steam games for instance(though I could lend out my login and password but I don't think thats a huge issue) On one note, the way amazon handles kindle books is you can have up to 6 kindles on an account, which works out nice for say families or something, Maybe a limited 'friend list' you can lend games to? I have a feeling we'll just see people trying a whole mess of different things and seeing what sticks. ---- BTW doj, why is it ok to pirate one thing but not another? What would make you not pirate music and movies?

5/dollars a month for everything seems low, to low to do much unless they got huge huge huge numbers, and I could easily see 10 or even 20 bucks it you got everything. You could do a teired plan too, 5 bucks gets you so many titles and their archives and maybe crossovers, 10 gets you more, 20 gets you everything. I could just be underestimating how much costs come down when you no longer have to print shit though. If it is 5 bucks for everything goodbuy tbp and comic stores /wave I don't see them every letting download cbr's though. If they pulled out of stores completely and you could only read them online it would heavily cut down on pirating, maybe(reading directly off their server or maybe with some special app would proabbly make it harder at least.) but we are way way way away from anything like that. I think I might sign up for a month to check it out, thats sounds really really cool.

Have you been to a site that lets you pay for stuff lately? Movies have trailers, books have had chapter samples since before the internet(and you can even download them on say a kindle or kindle app) and most music places let you listen to samples. Now if you mean you want to read the whole book, watch the whole movie, and listen to the whole song, then decide if you want to pay for it, you have the raido, the library, and cable. BTW they do get paid because the library bought a copy(and to be fair libraries have almost their own thing.) and well when you buy used someone bought it and it's not like you can both own it(in theory). Also you can rent, both local and online. So what did you mean?

I'll look up more stuff on legal issue of homebrew, I've always just kinda thought of it as my car basicly, I buy my car I can modify it, I buy my psp I mod it, but I'll look it up. Also talking to nick he's right that I was kinda all over the place on this, I'm not really sure what I was aiming for outside of general ranting but lets try and narrow it down a touch. One thing we were talking about was the legal vs moral/ethic agrument. We basicly agreed that legal stuff has some merky areas in terms of case law(as far as I know) for instance I think making a copy of a game for myself is ok(I own chrono trigger in about 3 different forums and there for making an iso of the ps1 verson and playing it on my psp is ok with me) but I understand that leaglly it's murky as I said(btw they really really really need to work out digital law but I have a feeling it'll remain the way it is for a long time.) It makes agruing the legal stuff tricky outside of obvious cases like, mario comes out this week and I download a copy by friday, so lets go to some of the moral stuff. I'm curious what moral and ethic agruments you can make for piracy? For instance doj basiclly said that pirating bad games was ok(that might have been a joke) why would you say that? Since I doubt anyone would agrue that nick couldn't lend me one of his games, can I just download it to save us the time and trouble? I would say thats proabbly crossing a line but even I admit it can seem like a blurry one. Is this just because we are having problems transfering our moral and ethics about phsycial goods to digital ones? oh and yeah if you guys have an points to make on anything I said you can bring it up too since I pretty much went through most of the major topics, or we can just do one issues at a time.

I do in fact currently buy all my shit(music, books, movies, mostly from amazon) also I never got pirated books but meh. Homebrew is not piracy, don't strawman this, but it's mostly used for piracy. Fansubs have always been a weird greyarea in alot of ways, and most legit groups will normally only release stuff thats not here and will stop when it comes out(yes alot of groups do this. but alot don't) and yes I for instance do read alot of scanlations of manga and I do buy it when it's released(nick can confirm my large manga collection) movies have never been an issues, I like to watch it in HD and frankly I also like alot of special feature and such(and I hate that fucking bullshit cam in a movie dvd, horrible to watch). Just about all the roms I use I have either owned, they never came out here,(y's 4 i'm looking at you) or I just can't get a copy at all(which even I admit is a grey area) but then I'm mostly talking about super nintendo shit. It's kinda funny that it's gotten so widespread and easy to pirate that no one believes anyone who says they their shit, crazy huh. and no tim I don't hate you, it's only cause I love you that I've turned you in to the FBI :P btw nick if I go back and edit that fuck you out of the post(btw I already said I wrote the post when angry, I didn't edit it so people don't bitch) will you try to have intelligent conversation?

I believe I told you all of this when I got my kindle, The ipad's biggest problem is proabbly cost in terms of really getting it out there. I think a kindle device(in terms of size, wieght and cost) will be better. My problems with the ipad is size and wieght, from all I've read reading one handed(something I've come to love and adore on my kindle doesn't work out so well) and the screen has some glare issues(and isn't as nice for reading as the kindle) that said the kindle isn't color or has comic apps. This however is the start(and some manga on kindle) but yes timmy, soon, I'd guess 5 years at the most, you'll carry around all your comics, manga, books, etc around in something the size of the kindle2. The big problems for comics going digital will be piracy of course, huh... I wonder as these devices go online all the time if you wouldn't just do a service and then basicly read comics off there servers. Also as this picks it it will hurt comic shops, those that just deal in comics and havn't done things to branch out will take big hits, in fact in some places thsi will proabbly simply be the only way to really get comics fast(hell even down here we dont' have many shops left.)

BTW as somone has already pointed this out to me, I know this comes off as angry(and possible bitter depending on your pov) part of this is because I wrote this the second I decided to when I was just most frustrated and pissed and it's also partly on purpose as it is well... a rant. As I said this isn't going to change anyone's mind and it's not really intended too, might get some people thinking, might piss some people off, and I figure alot of you might not care.

first an article by Jeff Vogel, he's an indie game desinger who does old school rpgs and writes alot on the internet, he's a got a pretty good blog thats a good read if you get a chance. Jeff's Blog http://pc.ign.com/articles/967/967564p1.html First off to those of you that pirate games, puppy dogs and sunshine. No seriously, I know some douch will come on now and try to justify being a criminal(and yes thats what it is, fucking deal with it.), but you can't anymore then you can justify stealing someone's car. You'll say it's not the same, you'll say your not really hurting anyone cause you wouldn't buy it anyway(and while I can't afford a porsche but I don't steal one) but these are people who put time, money, effort and very often love and passion(anything done very well takes that) into creating things. Now I'm sure someon will say that you can't own inseart art/pixils/ideas, I'm not even going to try to talk to you anymore cause you are insane, a duouch and should be removed from the gene pool to avoid you possible breeding. This really brings to light one of the things I hate most about the internet(it's also something I love too but meh) it's the fact that you really are no one, everyone is no one so we think we can do whatever we want, people would wouldn't fucking speed(much less shoplift or hold up a game stop) will take music, and movies and games. And somone will say will if I like it I'll buy it(HA, try renting, borrowing or demo's instead) or i'm just hurting the big evil guys(ask the world of goo guys or stardock about that) so who cares. You guys hate bullshit DRM, you have no one to blame but yourselves and thanks for fucking me too. You want to know the future of DRM, look at AC2, you have to be online to play, they keeps your saves, and in 6 months it'll be patched to play locally but thats extra time and money that could have been used for god knows what. I put 10 to 1 that all drm will go that way, first it'll be stay online to play, then it'll be saves, then it'll be assests and everything else and you only download a client till who knows how long after a game comes out(the bulk of sales takes place in the first few months so thats what they care about.) and you'll say anything is crackble right? sure, yeah but how long will it take? how well will it run(go play on private servers for mmo's and see, it's alot of shit and takes months if not years to do and most of them try to get money from you for the work) Now even I'll admit that some of these companies havn't always made things better but what would you do if you were watching people steal your shit? be calm? panic?? grab a gun? call the police? shit sounds similar doesn't? I wonder if part of the problem here is most of you people have never created anything, I've done some writing and I'm going back to school for computer science so I've created a little bit, and I can understand a little if someone just took my work, and if I was making money on it? if it was what I used to put food on my table, pay my bills, live? Most of these shops arn't ID, most of these guys don't drive supercars, they are mostly like you and me, they work hard and make enough to live and surive and take care of their families, so yeah, this shit really effects and hurts people. Thanks to this shit, the pc gaming market is trying to die(thank you mmo's and steam for keeping it alive.) Thanks to you we get so few good games on psp(and yes I homebrew my psps and I buy the games, ask nick or george if you don't belive me) because it's so easy to pirate, thats why developers even bitch about shit like the DS. And we all lose out, I love all the cool things I can do with homebrew on my psp and the media center shit you could on the xbox, but yeah fuck that from happening again. I doing this not to reach anyone(your all in your bullshit, i'm a moral, ethical rebel bullshit) so I'm not changing anyone's mind but i'm tired of it. This is just a rant I guess, maybe someone will read it and be like oh shit, I shouldn't do it, but I doubt it, but I will bitch and fight it at every step, maybe I'm just a better person then I think but I think it's mostly cause I don't want people to steal my shit, because I understand what choices I make when I did things like this(and yes I did pirate alot back in the day, it took a while for me to understand what I was doing, most victim-less crimes arn't) at the very least I hope this gets some of you to understand that you are stealing, that you are taking things, that people are hurt by what are you doing, that it's not fair and not right and not moral or ethical in anyway(maybe thats not a better place but it is a step foward.) huh... this might be the most I've written at one time in this place, thanks for reading this far if you have.

I'm finding going through a dozen pages on neo gaff helps, or I go by word of mouth... I really think forums like neo gaf and here are the best places to go, but I don't know how to 'fix'the system... you probably can't the way you want to.

there is nothing to be done for cliques, people simply form social circles and I kinda thing this should be in society as there isn't anything you can do really. I agree though I thought everyone liked amy. I was also going to make a joke about feeling on the outside but even I couldn't believe it lol

still need to play vagrant story, sitting on the psp too. and I'll sooner become ceo of square before see a xenogears remake(oh how a long for a remake of the second half of the game.) Need to replay that too and maybe get a bigger memory stick finally. going portable with ff7 makes some sense, much lower costs for one, if power is an issues make it for the 3ds or psp2 and it should still sell like gangbusters.

ff4 has really only had 1 remake(ff4 ds) the rest where just rerelease on different platforms(and that will end the day people stop buying them) so yeah I'd like a ds style remake of 5 and 6 if it came with the same kind of updates(extra story and gameplay stuff) That will never ever be old and will always be cute! and you have to be kidding about the legal stuff lol as for ff7 remake, the fans want it, the fans will buy it, I think it can be done well but it's a fairly large undertaking and is like 3 or 4 years out I'd guess.

oh my god

different teams dude, square has a bunch of different teams and 6 would likely get the ff 4 ds treatment.

Well right after ff13 came out they were like no, it would take to long and cost too muc, then it was maybe but proabbly not, then it was if the fans really really want it. I think they will, but it might push ff15 back... I'm still waiting for ff5 and 6 to get the 4 treatment. You know it might make sense to redo it on psp2 or 3ds instead of a full blown ps3/360 remake....

dude, roids, makes athletes millions so it must work right?