Backwards Compatibility (and the PS4)

[Keth]

I just dont wanna rebuy my library

[Maldron]

you don't have to get rid of your PS3.

[Keth]

I know know. I meant my digi stuff, but i guess that fits too. Bah i jist needa read it when i get home

[Maldron]

"Keeping your PS3 is a shit answer" sounds weird from a guy looking to find cables to hook up a Nintendo to a flatscreen and/or seeking out a super old TV to gain access without the need for conversion.

[Iambaytor]

The juxtaposition is weird, but he's not wrong.

[The NZA]

A nintendo that's no longer supported via BC (despite the tech available to do so), and you pick that example? you just reinforced my point, i obviously understand with analog/cart formats that've been abandoned, but digital media unnecessarily creating an additional 12 plugs in my entertainment center is exactly what i'm trying to avoid. it's a shit answer, and i don't even know how long i have left before this thing YLOD's.

[Keth]

and i don't even know how long i have left before this thing YLOD's.

Oh fuck, yeah that's another thing. even if the newer PS3's don't do that, we just don't have systems that'll last 10-15+ years anymore.

 

 

 

Also, are we going to just revel... in the topic mispelling? :P

Edited February 21, 2013 by axel_napalm

[Maldron]

it isn't digital media that's getting in the way, it's the cell. It's the same way the emotion engine got in the way of PS2 BC - it made no logistical sense to have an entire console chipset solely for that use, from either a financial or logistical perspective. But it's impossible to cover all bases. I've got PC games that I can't use on my shelf. I'll never know how Jewels of the Oracle ends, even now that I"m smart enough to find a goddamn FAQ to solve the puzzles.

 

Technology moves forward at a pace that occasionally makes the older efforts obsolete. And either you find workarounds, or you don't, and either it's worth it to you, or it isn't. The thing they did right with PS3 was having BC at launch and then having it phase out around the same time the PS2 offerings were being overtaken by those on the PS3. The buffer, this time, appears to be that games are being released on both PS3 and PS4, which will allow people time to think on their move to a new system. I don't have my PS2 plugged in, but I do have it stored in a central location, with my other old consoles, to be retrieved easily if the mood strikes me.

[The NZA]

older tech would imply PS4 isn't running PS1/2 games, which i fully expect it will, as if nothing else it's got more than enough to brute-force emulate them.

 

while i'm pissy with nintendo for not providing GC emulation - regardless of the system's sales, if you can run wii from the hardware, you can very likely run GC too - at least on console & handheld, they seem to maintain BC for at least the gen prior, what's troubling about sony is they appear to offer the exact opposite.

 

i get the cell being the issue, and fully encourage them getting away from it as a primary chip - MS humbled them this last gen, and now they're finally talking to software engineers (rather than their own internal hardware ones) when designing the system, which is long overdue. but sony not only distances themselves from a fantastic library this way, as you pointed out, there's typically a year or two worth of overlap in generations (far more in other regions), so that makes it even worse, like PS3 consumers starved for games & unable to play even Persona 4 when it dropped in '08.

 

i knew a legacy model/USB device was a longshot at best - i understand there's legal problems inherent with switching from one manufacturer to another - but i'm still unhappy with the low priority BC is sometimes given, and can't see why i should celebrate a promise of a streaming service possibly one day letting me re-buy my physical library. moreover, PS+ is great as a consumer but they really need to attract more devs to PSN (especially with the momentum of several leaving XBLA), and if consumers can't access their digital purchases from a 4, that's gonna hamper things.

 

*edit goddamn that really is a shit-ton of high quality RAM. you think MS will try to match, or stay on the lower end and beat them on price again?

[Maldron]

I'm not gonna let you ruin my happy, man. It ain't gonna happen.

 

There's no guarantee you'll have to rebuy it, either. Frankly, the promise of what Gaikai's offering in terms of demoing products more than makes up for not being able to play castle crashers.

[The NZA]

and i say those are the fickle words of a trophy-whore who never really loved castle crashes anyway

 

my overly-specific needs are not being catered to in a way i want, malbots

away with your refreshingly uncharacteristic optimism and killzone gifs

[Lipala]

Couple of things, 1 sorry about no backwards compatibility Nick but it sounds like they're looking into emulation or cloud play instead. Also, explicitly mentioned, not at the conference but in after interviews, the PS4 will allow you to play used games and play in offline mode, so initial worries of having to be always connected to play are unfounded.

[The NZA]

i like that 3 of us confirmed the used game thing, heh

 

 

yeah, i just don't have anything hard on the software emulation thing, and with the push for gakai i don't know how much effort will be put into that. ironically, it's the PS3 games that worry me the most for streaming - they need to move data @ 20GB/s, as i understand it, which is why we don't see a USB device workaround (even USB 3.0 can't move that much that fast).

 

i wanna be hopeful that E3 or one of their presentations showcases said streaming/its level of support & alleviates my fears, but another factor is that my internet options have not dramatically changed in recent years either; if i had google fiber/verizon fios or whatever maybe i'd be slightly less concerned.

[gunsmithx]

On the BC front some things, they haven't said anything about ps1 or 2, though Yosida did say that while they wont' talk about emu yet, doing early PS stuff would be very easy to do. Also as for cloud stuff I know one big worry is bandwidth but from what I remember from the DF review of Gaikai and Onlive your basically looking at the same Bandwidth as Netflix streaming roughly 1gb an hour.

[Thrizzle]

Nick, you've gotta keep in mind that you aren't literally streaming the game. You're streaming a video of you remotely playing the game.

[Maldron]

He'll get there.

[Keth]

would that dumb down the resolution?

[The NZA]

you guys are assuming an awful lot, and i'm still fascinated by your optimsim here.

 

1) we've now confirmed that PS4's won't read CD's (sony's own tech), which tells me PS1 support is referring to titles on PSN only. that's a horrible start; even if we did everntually get software emulation (as gun said, it woudln't be a chore for such hardware, but developing it would still take effort), this still stands to render the physical library obsolete.

 

2) netflix/etc comparisons don't tell me much of anything about latency, title support etc.

 

I'm hpapy about a lot of what the PS4's offerintg, and it's nice if some of you find this attempt at a workaround ample, but i very much do not. i respect sony's efforts to get their hardware to a place devs find more attractive, but this does not translate to me as a consumer being excited about the first sony system that cannot natively acces the prior nearly 2 decades of games in their library.

[Maldron]

If their money is where their mouth is, where is your money?

[Keth]

this still stands to render the physical library obsolete.

If their money is where their mouth is, where is your money?

 

There's a Nintendo joke somewhere here.

[The NZA]

If their money is where their mouth is, where is your money?

 

i don't speak SDF, can someone translate?

 

There's a Nintendo joke somewhere here.

 

it's funny bringing them up, as they actually make 1 gen prior BC a priority, however much i hated seeing the GC left out. moreover, their Virtual Console efforts have been greater than any other company's, as far as preserving older titles and making efforts to maintain authenticity in gameplay/sound etc. they're even getting PAL 50 HZ titles up to the standard 60 HZ.

 

they just fucked up a lot've it without proper account systems, which is mind boggling.

[Thrizzle]

I really hope they catch shit for cutting BC, and I hope microsoft is paying attention to it. MS hasn't put their dick on the table yet, maybe there will still be a console next gen I can get excited about.

[Lipala]

Am I really the only one here who couldn't give two shits about backwards compatibility? I've got a ps3 and my friend a ps2, between them I can play all the PS1-3 games I want. Why do I need the PS4 to play them for me too? Especially considering PS3 and PS2 architecture is completely incompatible with x86 and you're essentially asking Sony to install two entire chipsets on the board just for that support to be able to play those games with any reliability because if they emulate it and its not 100% of what you remember you're going to bitch. You've really got two choices here, a reasonably priced PS4 or your BC.

[Keth]

I'm more worried about losing all of my digital items. I don't like that the PS4 won't be able to transfer PSN purchases. Physical stuff is one thing, we all went through that in the cartridge era. I don't mind keeping my PS3, but It would be nice to have that extra boost of funds to buy the new one if I could sell it.

 

 

And if Xbox won't support used games, BC isn't going to save them. I'd much rather have used games than BC.

 

 

 

 

#bc

[Lipala]

Agreed, it was disappointing to hear that PS3 PSN games won't transfer but it makes sense. PS3 games are written for the Cell, the PS4 is x86, its the same problem as with a disc based game.