Miracleman

[The NZA]

that's the one!

 

finished Moore's run, i guess? i'm on Gaiman's 2nd issue (18), might take a break here...does this part hold up, or have i read the better bits?

[Thelogan]

It's fine, you should read those last few issues, but there's not going to be anything like Olympus.

[Iambaytor]

I made it about 6 issues into the post-Moore run and just gave up. They weren't bad but there was no real narrative and it felt inconsequential and I went elsewhere.

[Thelogan]

I think Miracleman #15 may be, pound for pound, one of the best single issue superhero comics ever. It has an epic moment roughly every other page if "they'd say I was going soft, wouldn't they?" was in this issue, it might have had an awesome overload and exploded.

 

 

 

He'd been there for hours.

 

 

Atchly, we prefer the term 'black person'.

Man, I burn all kindsa shit. Burn houses. Automobiles. Gas mainpipes...

 

My apologists have claimed that the first car I hurled at Bates was empty, those who had been inside all having previously escaped. I'm sorry, but that isn't true.

 

 

One did not throw banks at forcefields, when a pebble might suffice...if it were placed inside.

 

It's okay. It's okay Johnny. Good kid. Good kid...

 

 

 

Lesser writers would have taken any one of those and wrapped an issue around it. Stretched this thing out for half a year. Moore just blows his load all at once and doesn't apologize when you can't catch a breath through the semen.

 

And you nailed it with how many people have tried to do that since. It will kind of ruin things for you now. There's so much where I'll feel "Oh, this is kind of like Miracleman, only sillier". That shit ain't easy, Moore just makes it look easy. I try hard not to make that comparison anymore, because it just isn't fair.

I think it's why it took me so long to try out Irredeemable. Which was a perfectly fine book and really not very similar at all.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Thelogan

[The NZA]

 

"good kid, good kid..." wasnt so much a punch in the gut as it was one more hit after a rapid-fire barrage of them, it was just drilling home the "this isn't a deus-ex superhero book where we find a way and pose for a group shot at the end"...it was a vile moment that was the only way it could've gone down, i thought.

 

but good call, even as a finale it didn't/coulnd'tve had the sting of

 

My apologists have claimed that the first car I hurled at Bates was empty, those who had been inside all having previously escaped. I'm sorry, but that isn't true.

 

maaaan, in an 80s and beyond marvel U where punisher routinely exchanged assault rifle shots in populated areas, hulk rampaged routinely, and no civies seemed to die...this would've blown my mind. don't get me wrong, i enjoy bits of the flowery prose when moran's dancing with the universe or describing olympus, but that dry, succinct delivery of that line...you're right man, i kept thinking about Rising Stars, Cla$$war, Powers, and so many other "power corrupts" books that either didn't have the balls to remind you of that reality or had to call a time-out from the action to let it simmer.

i came back to that page a few times because it felt like the kind've brutal honesty watchmen/any other book trying to establish greek mythological archetypes for modern supers & the logical lack of concern for individual lives that comes from that...Miller spends paragraphs trying to deliver that, for example.

 

what im getting at is that my review of DKSA migh've been premature

 

the rest've Olympus was particularly interseting, i think it was either Morisson or Miller that talked about how sexy revolution is vs rebuilding, and how seldom we hang around with the cameras on to see how that goes. Rising Stars was one of the ones that spent time in its ending trying to talk about what came next, but by the time it wrapped up, i was content & didn't want JMS to spend another issue shoehorning john lennon lyrics into his society. this one...was moore done, or did he leave before finishing or wha? i felt like he was taking it somewhere with the pocket resistances for his utopia & how he might have to deal with them, or any other rogue elements.

 

im gonna try some more of Gaiman's stuff - it's really not bad so far, but like ryan said, it's just clear he was on the book & decided to do his own thing...i don't blame him one bit, i'd not at all be inclined to finish/add to another man's direction like that, but it does make it jarring as a reader.

also: i was glad they got an artist on board later who drew more like alan davis, there was an issue or two in between when the non-golden age fantasy stuff didn't look right.

 

[Thelogan]

I view The Golden Age as sort of world building. Gaiman is letting things cool down and letting you know what's going on in the peripheral in the aftermath of such a profound change. And yeah, not being stupid enough to try to immediately follow the preceding story with anything too ambitious.

At the beginning of his second (unfinished) arc, The Silver Age, I can see him getting back on track. Like "Okay, enough dilly dallying. Time to tell another story".

Of course, he wasn't able to, but still.

He had a 3rd book planned, The Dark Age, and it sounded like it could have been pretty interesting.

 

Hey, does this disgust you more now?

 

[The NZA]

 

what the fuck, todd

if you're gonna do some shady acres shit like that, why not just ape the look right? do you feel more legit meshing him with 90s x-man? jesus shit

[alive she cried]

COMICS: Axel Alonso Promises That An Announcement About MARVELMAN Is Coming Soon

It was way back in 2009 that Marvel announced they had acquired the rights to Marvelman (also known as Miracleman), but apart from a single image by Joe Quesada, there's been no sign of the character in the Marvel Universe. It now sounds as if that's all about to change...

 

Josh Wilding - 4/9/2013

Alan Moore and Neil Gaiman's work on Marvelman/Miracleman is loved by many comic book fans, and with the latter making a return to Marvel later this year as he introduces 'Angela' to the Marvel Universe in the final few pages of Age of Ultron, many of those same people are wondering whether we will FINALLY see the character back as was promised in 2009. In an interview with Newsarama, current Editor-in-Chief Axel Alonso had this to say about the status of Marvelman.

 

"There has been progress. Considerable progress. And we'll be making an announcement soon. I'm a huge fan of Marvelman. I'm very excited about seeing him being published by Marvel."

 

 

Read more at http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=77305#cAdtGgi28TzJxiXa.99

 

I'm up to issue #13, gonna finish Moore's run tonight. I'll comment properly tomorrow.

[Thrizzle]

+1 for the bit after the quote. Good kid, ASC. Good kid.

 

 

As for the quote, there are only 2 acceptable answers: they reprint the Moore/Gaiman stuff (and give me a nice Omnibus), and/or they let Gaiman wrap it up.

There is absolutely no point to Miracleman in the Marvel universe. He brings nothing interesting to the table in a universe brimming with superheroes, and it would do nothing but cheapen the other stories. He would just be a big blue banana.

[Iambaytor]

I disagree, there's a lot of theories going around that the whole "Angela is appearing in the Marvel Universe" thing is just a smokescreen because nobody gives two shits about Angela. There's been talk of tossing her in Guardians of the Galaxy where I feel Marvelman would fit quite nicely. They could do with him what they should have done with The Sentry. Now obviously his own book (which hopefully they'll now be able to release/finish) would have to exist in its own universe but there is room for a character with his mindset/powers in the cosmic Marvel universe.

[Thrizzle]

But we've already got people with those powers coming out of our ears. His powers aren't remotely special, and they don't make the character. The Miracleman reboot was good because of the setting. Take him out of that and he's just another Captain Marvel clone again.

 

And he wouldn't be the same dude if he existed in 616. He would still be that golden age guy, flying around and punching evildoers then having a laugh over apple pie and a cherry phosphate. I just don't see the appeal.

[The NZA]

i hope Jenkins does his reboot mini, and he joins the Avengers, before President Eddie Brock makes him go crazy and kill Hercules for no reason

[Thrizzle]

If they wanna completely ignore the 80's reboot and introduce him into the Marvel U in some way, I wouldn't particularly give a shit one way or the other.

What would bother me is if the took the character and growth from the run we read and somehow shoehorn him in. That would not make sense and it would be stupid.

[alive she cried]

Wow!

 

Sleep now, gushing tomorrow.

[Thrizzle]

If you liked it, I know a place where you can get a really kickass Kid Miracleman shirt.

[Iambaytor]

So you're saying that a giant virtually unkillable and unstoppable superman that totally knows how to fix everything if you guys would just stop trying to resist but isn't actually a villain but a hero actually working with the actual heroes wouldn't be good storyline fodder? I acknowledge that that's been done and there's nothing particularly special about the character but people used to say that about Nova too.

[Thrizzle]

There's plenty special about the character, but not really in 616.

 

 

 

The story is almost a "what would you do if no one could stop you?" tale. It's interesting because it takes place in an approximation of the "real" world. In 616, plenty of people would and could stop him.

Trying it would also make him a villain instantly. Plenty of villains have tried to become overlord of the world "for the greater good". Maybe they were right, and they would have forged a utopia, but something like that can't be done bloodlessly when there are thousands of people with superpowers/high tech weaponry/mystical abilities of varying political beliefs populating every country on the planet. The U.S. has heavy hitting lovers of democracy on the payroll, they would laugh at Moran. No one would probably care if he took over somewhere like Latveria, but I don't even know if he could pull that off. Doom probably has a room full of rayguns that negate forcefields.

It only works when you can say to the world "I'm in charge now. I don't care if you don't like it. Take your fucking medicine, you'll thank me later".

 

 

 

Nothing that's cool about him works, man. Your Nova analogy also makes no sense.

 

Now, I would only be bothered if they took the same dude and moved him over. That would be profoundly retarded. Profoundly. He would assume that it's all bullshit anyway.

 

If they want to introduce a Miracleman character with the same power set, costume and attitude, but no ties to the Moore run, I wouldn't be bothered at all. I also wouldn't be excited about it.

[The NZA]

this is the most interesting goddamn discussion in comics (for me) in a minute; sorry to be meta but it needed to be said

 

to oversimplify, loggins: do you think the meat of MM (heh) falls apart in a shared universe? because i cant help but notice the obvious parallels between jumbie highlighting many a supes story devoid of the rest of DCU in his top 10 list

[Thrizzle]

[Iambaytor]

There's plenty special about the character, but not really in 616.

 

 

 

The story is almost a "what would you do if no one could stop you?" tale. It's interesting because it takes place in an approximation of the "real" world. In 616, plenty of people would and could stop him.

Trying it would also make him a villain instantly. Plenty of villains have tried to become overlord of the world "for the greater good". Maybe they were right, and they would have forged a utopia, but something like that can't be done bloodlessly when there are thousands of people with superpowers/high tech weaponry/mystical abilities of varying political beliefs populating every country on the planet. The U.S. has heavy hitting lovers of democracy on the payroll, they would laugh at Moran. No one would probably care if he took over somewhere like Latveria, but I don't even know if he could pull that off. Doom probably has a room full of rayguns that negate forcefields.

It only works when you can say to the world "I'm in charge now. I don't care if you don't like it. Take your fucking medicine, you'll thank me later".

 

 

 

Nothing that's cool about him works, man. Your Nova analogy also makes no sense.

 

Now, I would only be bothered if they took the same dude and moved him over. That would be profoundly retarded. Profoundly. He would assume that it's all bullshit anyway.

 

If they want to introduce a Miracleman character with the same power set, costume and attitude, but no ties to the Moore run, I wouldn't be bothered at all. I also wouldn't be excited about it.

 

My Nova analogy makes nothing BUT sense. Nova was the definition of boring for most of his existence and didn't really function well in a shared universe where just about anybody and everybody can kick his ass.

 

You're taking this too literally, I said the same ideals, not the same approach. 616-Marvelman couldn't just be all "Fuck you Thatcher, I'm the boss now!" That's just it, he's not a villain but he has certain tendencies there which could be played to make kind of an Ozymandias-like figure. Of course, last I check we live in Brian Michael Bendis' version of the Marvel universe so he'd probably just turn out like the Sentry did.

[Thrizzle]

I got something else out of it.

 

 

Interlude: We've been delving pretty deep into spoiler territory here, folks. Proceed with caution.

 

I don't think that Miracleman (I know constantly referring to him as such is probably annoying, since it's not even the name it was originally or currently. It's just a little idiosyncrasy ya'll will have to deal with. I read the Eclipse books, and he'll always be Miracleman to me) had any particular aspirations for global domination. He didn't do it because he wanted to, he did it because he had to. After London, no one in the world doubted the existence of super humans. Can you imagine the responsibility someone in that position would feel? There would be cries for protection, blame when something bad happens (like letting your kid sidekick, who you had hidden away knowing his potential, brutally slaughter millions), and questions when you let children in Africa starve to death. And, barring his small circle of goofballs, he's the ONLY one that can do something about it.

 

Your parallels with Ozymandias are perfectly natural. I think that at this stage in Moore's writing, he was thinking a lot about this sort of thing: if you had the power to change the world, what do you do? What would be the consequences? He came up with three answers.

 

1. Miracleman - You take over. You take care of everybody and you personally solve all the problems.

 

2. Ozymandias - You orchestrate events that hopefully lead to world peace, no matter what the cost.

 

3. Swamp Thing - You realize that you can solve world hunger with a snap of your fingers, as well as provide limitless shelter and energy. You can save the lives of millions. But you don't. Because then they'll never learn. They will be reliant on you forever, like a wealthy child who never learns to feed himself, and if their meal ticket ever leaves then they will be in worse shape then they were before.

 

In many ways I think Swamp Thing has the more mature approach to the situation. It's heartbreaking, and it hurts him to do it, but it always is when you let your children fail. The hope is that maybe they'll realize that it's important to earn enough money to pay the electric bill.

MM did seem to have an endgame in mind, and he was certainly becoming less and less necessary, but I have a feeling that MM's utopia would have fallen apart at the seams if the series had finished.

[Iambaytor]

I'm just saying a hero with a god complex that isn't a villain ultimately has potential to be mined and I would like to see that. I'm not saying lets tear a hole in reality and have Miracleman step out of it into the 616, lets just have him wake up one day, realize he's a superhero (just like in Miracleman), and go from there.

[Thrizzle]

Yeah, that's option #2 that I mentioned up there. It's the one that doesn't upset me.

 

You trust Marvel to do something worthwhile with that though? I don't think the Loeb/Land dynamic duo is doing much lately. The sales figures say that people love them.

[Iambaytor]

It's a crapshoot with Marvel, depends who they end up putting on it, I could see someone like Jason Aaron or Cullen Bunn doing something amazing. But if it's Bendis or Loeb we're just going to have The Sentry all over again.

[alive she cried]

Right, so that was worth the wait. I don't know why I ever kept putting off reading this. I've had the scans on my computer since around 2006 and just got round to starting it a couple of weeks ago. It's really such a deceptive book.

 

 

It took me so long to realise how good it was. I mean you have the false start at first, with the Anglo stuff, takes off with Kid Miracleman, but then goes into such strange territory with Cream and the aliens. Both of which on the surface sound so silly, but work so, so well. The explanation of the 50's stories and seamless integration into this more realistic world was just fantastic. Then of course we had #15, which as you said earlier Logan, and I completely agree, is the greatest single issue of a superhero comic. It was here that the entire series comes together so...just mind blowing.

 

Especially when you put it into perspective. How in the fuck was it even possible for the 90's to happen when you have this along with Watchmen, V For Vendetta and Year One? How was any self respecting writer in good conscience able to release the utter drivel that plagued the 90's? It's like watching a couple of fat fucks wander out of the pub and line up with Usain Bolt in a 100m sprint. It's just embarrassing.

 

But yeah, Back to Miracleman itself. I thought the ending was fantastic, to just go there and have him take over the Earth, and peacefully create a Utopia? So brave, especially considering the series was still ongoing after Moore (although, all due respect to Gaiman I'm considering #16 the end). And that's why, I'm siding with Logans and Nick. It would just make no fucking sense to lump Miracleman in with 616. If Marvel are going to do that though, they could just have the Warrior/Eclipse stories be one of the many parallel earths, and just bring him over from there. Maybe he wants to spread Utopia, any means necessary? That said, I definitely am against any 616 integration. They could also just allow Gaiman to continue his story on the Icon print or something, keeping it completely standalone. But if I had a say, I'd prefer they just release Moore's run in a nice tpb and then retire the charcacter...fat chance.

 

If you liked it, I know a place where you can get a really kickass Kid Miracleman shirt.

Eh, I've seen better.