Iambaytor Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 Oh I forgot to mention that I really enjoyed Orson Scott Card's Iron Man even if he did change Tony Stark into some kind of weird low-grade Wolverine (something that along with Ultimate Elektra's origin, never seems to come up in the other stories strangely) I just wish he'd have finished the story rather than stopping on the second arc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 I'm starting to consider re-naming Ultimate Marvel "The Universe Where Everyone But Spider-Man is a Complete Fucking Asshole." weird to hear someone not digging the Ultimates. It's not "someone," it's BaytorH8R5000. So it's par for the course. I haven't read any of the re-boot stuff, but ultimately (har-har-har!!!) I thought Ultimatum was a pretty cool way to kinda re-boot Ultimateverse. I agree, I only stick around for the Ellis arcs in UFF, but Loved Millar's Ultimates. Ultimate Iron Man was also very good. ALthough the follow up was a bit meh in my opinion. I haven't really read any Ultimate Spidey or X-men though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted May 9, 2010 Share Posted May 9, 2010 (edited) I don't know, lately I've just started to notice a vein of sophomoric bullshit running through Millar's works, I noticed it quite blatantly in Wanted but after re-reading Kick-Ass and going back through his Marvel trilogy I'm starting to get annoyed by it. His take on the Hulk just makes me roll his eyes and every single one of the Ultimates is a complete prick so I just can't get into it. Like I said, it doesn't help that I'm not comparing this to pre-Disassembled crappy Avengers and am instead comparing it to things like New Avengers and the like. I understand I'm being unfair, but I'm just not digging it and I'm half afraid to go back and re-read Old Man Logan for fair that the one Millar book I still like will end up on the hate pile as well. So far Spider-Man is great with the exception of a few issues here and there, and X-Men is mostly good. They're still the two best books out of this universe. Edited May 9, 2010 by Iambaytor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 It's not "someone," it's BaytorH8R5000. So it's par for the course. I haven't read any of the re-boot stuff, but ultimately (har-har-har!!!) I thought Ultimatum was a pretty cool way to kinda re-boot Ultimateverse. I agree, I only stick around for the Ellis arcs in UFF, but Loved Millar's Ultimates. Ultimate Iron Man was also very good. ALthough the follow up was a bit meh in my opinion. I haven't really read any Ultimate Spidey or X-men though. This reflects accurately all responses to anything I've seen thusfar in this thread. Baytor- I'm sure you're aware that the Ultimates specifically is designated to be as 'real world' as possible, hence everyone's a dick, but what's the alternative? Your token niavette as seen on the Seven in the Boys(Starlight) is really only used for comdeic relief, or in the Shield(Lem) it's played as a more tragic figure, neither of which are a strong suit of Millar's & where the latter may have worked pretty well in the Ultimates, the former would ruin it. And yeah, Arc of Ultimate Iron Man was brilliant, Arc 2 I stopped reading after #3 or so. Mike Carey was the other writer on Ultimate FF & his stuff was forgettable in the same way Kirkman/Vaughan's stuff on UXM was. Speaking of, NZA- Ultimate Cable is on Kirkman's head, not Vaughan's. Confuse the two again & you'll be swallowing with 3 Adam's apples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 (edited) Warren Ellis managed a better play on the same dynamic with the Authority and he used characters that I couldn't give less of a fuck about, Millar wasn't able to sell me the idea with characters I liked. I think Millar is going to be my Kirkman. Edited May 10, 2010 by Iambaytor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Oh I like that idea. A lot. Ellis is a far more dynamic writer though, don't forget. By 2nd-tier standards(by 2nd tier I mean between Indie & mainstream Marvel, which is where something like Authority sits) Millar's a pretty forgetable writer, and it was the core Marvel work he did that really boosted his image because his kind of style wasn't being seen otehrwise. And now like MillEr, he's gone from something different to self-parody. Miller with Swastinipples & whores, Millar with pop culture throwbacks & hostile characters. On the matter of the Authority, Ellis was doing his weird science thing & bizarre character traits, and Millar did a rip on the Avengers that was really just Ultimates: Origins combined with Onward Christian Sodomites or something, so it's an unfair comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 the Miller comparison is very good one, and just like Miller the crazy shit was always there, it was just that you didn't notice it until he got to the self-parody point and now you can't help but notice all those bullshit story elements in stuff you once loved. That's why I look back at the Dark Knight Returns and Sin City and can't love it as much as I did with fresh eyes. I understand that Tony Stark is an asshole by nature and I guess not everybody can make him a like-able asshole like Orson Scott Card did, and the Pyms have never been my bag so I didn't expect much, but Cap and Thor are usually two I can get beside and they're still the closest out of the group that I can associate with but Thor is a hippie and Cap manages half the time but the other half he's just a dickhead. I think it was Millar's take on Bruce Banner/Hulk that I hated the most, he wrote him the way Garth Ennis would, only Garth Ennis would be doing it to make fun of him, Millar legitimately thinks it's a good idea. Maybe it's just because I've seen a more entertaining/scary Skrull invasion than this but as of the end of book one I'm just not sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 10, 2010 Author Share Posted May 10, 2010 i totally slept on Iron Man vol 2. and ultimate Cable was aight. JZA - that's pretty interesting, so you see the "realistic" team dynamic as (somewhat) being between the Seven from the Boys, The Shield, or the Ultimates? i mean, even Watchmen had them play at being good guys. good examples of character troupes, though... fuckin' Lem. i get that you were referring to starlight chick in the Boys but the comparison's still there: trying to write around the "corrupt with power asshole inevitability" as it were seems a bit've a chore, then. i really dont wanna dwell too much on ya'lls comparison of Miller/Millar and 'tor's comment on noticing these bullshit elements in his stories for fear of tainting my few beloved Ennis tales any further and having this condition labeled "the arseface effect" or meat woman something something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 What? I was talking about Miller/Millar in that context, not Ennis. Ennis at his worst can be overlooked, I've not had that issue with his work, I don't see bad tropes from The Pro appearing in his other shit. I've also got to the Ultimate Galactus Saga and I can say that Warren Ellis writes the Ultimates in a way that makes me like them. So my Ultimates/Authority comparison is fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Maybe I'll get around to finishing the Gah-Lak-Tus trilogy, maybe I won't, but I was more saying that Millar & Ellis are apples & oranges in terms of writing styles. It's like comparing Eisner to Ennis. Ellis has longevity because he's always been as mad as a cut snake, so it'll be harder to tell when his gimmick is played out. Millar on the other hand, Well I personally feel like he peaked with Ultimate Xmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 10, 2010 Author Share Posted May 10, 2010 man, if you guys end up liking Ultimate Gah-Lak-Tus, lemme know. i loved how Nightmare started, but it just dragged so much...ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Exactly. It somehow managed to go from incredibly dark horror/scifi to incredibly camp 50's sci fi, and Idunno, I stopped reading partway through Ultimate Secret. Ultimate Nightmare would make an awesome standalone movie, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Ultimate Nightmare was incredible, the Ultimate Versions of Unicorn and Ultimate Red Guardian were great. Nice creepy story and they left all the big badasses out so there was actually a hint of threat (I still find Fury, Black Widow, and Falcon pacifying Jean Grey, Wolverine, and Colossus to be a big load of bullshit though) Ultimate Secret wasn't bad, it was a nice new take on Captain Marvel. But it was a little dull, Ultimate Vision is also kinda peculiar, and the lack of a proper Silver Surfer just seems wrong. But I'm still loving Ellis' take on The Ultimates, particularly Cap and Thor. I don't think there's any writer that's ever going to make me prefer Ultimate Fury over the 616 version though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 But he's the Lando Calrissian of the 21st century... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted May 10, 2010 Share Posted May 10, 2010 Never much cared for Lando. Incidentally, I just finished Ultimate Galactus. Shit was just kind of weird between hoards of Moon Dragon clones and the token "Reed Richards Deus Ex Gun" but all in all it was a good read, though Nightmare was just a hard act to follow for Secrets and Extinction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Well, I'm all caught up, everything pre-Ultimatum sans Ultimate Adventure (Ron Zimmerman is a terrible writer and I refuse to read that bullshit) and I must say that with the exception of Spider-Man, X-Men, and volume 2 of the The Ultimates that this entire project can eat my asshole. Ultimatum was a good story but it was also that kind of batshit insane stuff that just says "We really don't care about anything, here's some violence." Still I respect them killing off some popular characters simply because they had no use for them like Daredevil and keeping a few of the ones I figured were scheduled to die like Spider-Woman and Valkyrie. Ultimates 2 did the Ultimates the right way (That is to say that Mark Millar wrote more like Warren Ellis did) and with the exception of Hawkeye's escape from certain death (Literally the most retarded comic panel I've ever witnessed) it was a solid story. Was the Persian guy supposed to be Wonder Man? What did that W stand for? Ultimates 3 was a bath of ass, and I couldn't figure out what was happening half the time since the artist fucking loved black paint so much. Wolverine's coming back, they left him the same out they left Reptilicus, it's a forgone conclusion. The only new book I've cracked is Ultimate Comics Spider-Man, I'm not loving the new artist but I'll get used to it and I don't know what the fuck Bendis is doing with the story. But he managed the whole Smallville-with-Spider-Man-only-not-stupid thing for 133+ issues so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted June 1, 2010 Author Share Posted June 1, 2010 yeah, much the same impression as me (though i dug Zimmerman's Rawhide kid...), and Ultimatum was fucking terrible by the end. balls-out, sure, but terrible. Ultimate Comics Spidey is going well, keep up with Millar's Ultimates, # 2 of the current volume's out and by god, i think someone's finally putting Punisher on a team and having it make sense. i finished Ultimate Enemy, but frankly i got worn off of ultimate events/crossover books a while back so i think im leaving it at that. and yeah, fuck whatever Loeb's ultimates are doing right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 I've yet to finish Ultimate Enemy, but I'm nearly positive it's going to introduce Ultimate Impossible man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 Ultimates 2 did the Ultimates the right way (That is to say that Mark Millar wrote more like Warren Ellis did) and with the exception of Hawkeye's escape from certain death (Literally the most retarded comic panel I've ever witnessed) it was a solid story. Are you talking about where he kills some guys with his fingernails? I thought that was awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldron Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 So, I've read what I consider 80% of Ultimate Marvel, now. And JZA, no. No it was not about Impossible Man. Of course, it's about to get yet another reboot. This is probably the last chance reboot, but considering it's fucking with the only thing that's kept it afloat, I'm not sure how long it'll last. Still, I've liked Ultimate Marvel. On those occasions where it's done its own thing, I've enjoyed it immensely. Still. Anybody looking forward to the reboot? Hawkeye's gettin' his own miniseries, which is good, considering he's one of the universe's high points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 First I've heard of a Ultimate reboot, and Ultimate Bullseye Hawkeye is indeed pretty awesome. He was one of the high points in Ultimates 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldron Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Well the reboot is happening, like, next month. And considering they're relaunching Ultimate Spider-Man with some new Spider-man on account of Peter Parker being dead and all, I'm not sure whether the ultimate brand'll survive or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Didn't they just relaunch Ultimate Spider-Man, or Ultimate Comics: Spider-Man or whatever? I read the first few, with the Nova kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldron Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 It relaunched post-ultimatum with a new name, then reverted to the old name, and is now being relaunched. If you clicked that spoiler tag, you'd know why. BUT YOU AIN'T GONNA, IS YOU? Honestly, none of this is really a relaunch, as much as a "we're all gonna start out on the same page again instead of all doing our own damn thing." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 I clicked your spoiler, despite that it actually spoiled something for me. I'm also not the least bit surprised, it's what they do over there. I can see how it could potentially lead to a relaunch of that title, but I fail to see why that effects the whole universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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