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Marvel vs. DC


Iambaytor
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I know there's an existing thread, couldn't find it and we might as well start fresh anyway. I was always kind of annoyed by the match-ups in the Marvel vs. DC book and seeing as the next 2 volumes were just the increasingly bland adventures of Access this was never really ammended. (Seriously what did Jubilee and Robin have in common?) So I started compiling a more even list that wasn't tainted by the popularity of characters and I found out some very valuable things:

1) Even omitting the obvious similarities between Jack Kirby's career at both, Marvel and DC plagiarize each other a lot.

2) There is no DC version of Spider-Man, or at least if there is he's incredibly obscure. The only reason the Superboy thing made even a small amount of sense was because he was a clone like Ben Reilly at the time. Now Superboy is just Tom Welling from Smallville (that is to say, he's just like superman except that he just whines a lot and never does anything interesting) and Ben Reilly is mericfully dead (hopefully for ever and ever) so even that tangential relation is gone. Anybody with any suggestions on that oen is welcome to bring them up.

 

Since this list is super long I'll start out with a small sampling:

 

Commander Steel (Henry Heywood) vs. Captain America (Steve Rogers)

I barely even know who Commander Steel is but he's pretty much Captain America, though rather than being injected with Super Soldier Serum he just has cybernetic enhancements. I'll give it to Cap because he has a shield or something, I don't know.

 

Batman (Bruce Wayne) vs. The Black Panther (T’Challa)

A lot of people will just dismiss this as an instant win for Batman, but I think they're really short-changing the future American Panther (sorry, I just have to find ways to work that into things.) Bruce started training to be the ultimate badass once his parents were killed, T'Challa's been trained for it since birth not to mention he has a panther god on his side (whatever that's worth.) T'Challa also took on pretty much the most super Super Skrull of all of them during Secret Invasion with nothing but a sword, even Batman's shirtless swordfighting with Ra's Al Ghul can't top that. Panther also has Batman's nack for elaborate preparations for any fight, so not only is Batman facing his equal physically but also mentally, so Batman can't really outsmart his opponent like usual. This is pretty much going to be the two of them wailing on each other until one of them doesn't get up anymore, and that's really not an easy one to call. I give it to T'Challa simply because he's got a bit more experience and is maybe a bit stronger, though I'm sure Batman has some stupid bullshit gizmo in his belt that he could use to give him an edge.

 

Wonder Woman (Diana Prince) vs. Thundra

Thundra is a straight-up rip off of Wonder Woman, and they both pretty much have the exact same super powers of super-strength, limited flight, and spewing out-dated ultra-feminist propaganda. They're evenly matched physically and none of Wonder Woman's weapons would really help her in this fight, so I'll just give it to Wonder Woman because Thundra's kind of an idiot.

 

Superman (Clark Kent Kal-L) vs. The Sentry (Robert Baldwin)

If we're talking about the original The Sentry, not that stupid thing that Bendis made him into, then I'd say Superman easily. But if we're talking about that Deus Ex monster from Dark Reign well he's pretty much unstoppable. However, I wouldn't write off Superman entirely, the last few years have seemed to be dedicated to making it so Superman's not all that anymore, he's still under-rated as far as strength goes. I think the fact that the Sentry is mentally unstable would also be something that Superman could exploit to pull out a win. Still, it's hard to argue against The Sentry since he was pretty much designed to be unstoppable by anyone.

 

Hawkman (Carter Hall) vs. Thor (Donald Blake)

I suppose Donald Blake doesn't really factor on this fight and I'm going to go with Carter Hall not Katar Hol because all that Thanagar bullshit doesn't even beging to make sense to me and is honestly kind of dumb. Thor is more powerful of the two and his flight ability isn't intended on some sort of retarded wing backpack, but Hawkman is no slouch in the dishing/receving pain department. It'd be a close fight but I'd say Mijolnir would be just a bit too much for Hawkman's power mace.

 

Captain Marvel (Billy Batson) vs. Marvelman (Micky Moran)

The battle of characters that preoceded Superman, were forgotten and then made out to be Superman ripoffs on their return, and then got sued by Marvel for using the word Marvel in their name despite the fact that they existed long before the comics imprint. Though it is worth note that Marvelman is a straight up plagiarised version of Captain Marvel attempting to cash in on the character's popularity whilst simultaneously creating a British version of the same character. Also for the record this is the revised "Hey we won the legal battle" version of Marvelman that Marvel Comics is doing not the ultra gritty Alan Moore/Neil Gaiman Miracleman version. These guys are pretty closely matched for the most part, Captain Marvel might be slightly less strong but he's faster and smarter than Marvelman. Marvelman does have limited forcefield abilites and concussive energy blasts but Marvelman can emit lightning. But there's also the factor that Captain Marvel's powers are magical whilst Marvelman's are atomic (comics talk for "science stuff") and since magic has proven in comics to be the end all be all "LOL fuck you science" then I'm gonna say Captain Marvel would win.

 

Mr. Miracle (Scott Free) vs. Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell)

Bet you were wondering why I didn't just have Captain Marvel fight Captain Marvel, well because they're a little mis-matched, Marvelman presented an interesting oppurtunity, and because I wanted to shoe-horn in Jack Kirby's 4th world as much as possible. I will say this, Mr. Miracle knows the Anti-Life equation which is pretty much the biggest Deus Ex in the entire universe even moreso than the speed force, but he refuses to ever use it so this comes down to cosmic powers. Mr. Miracle has the Alpha Effect (the good version of Darkseid's powers) which just kinda kicks the nega bands' ass all over the place.

 

The Atom (Ray Palmer) vs. Ant-Man (Henry Pym)

I suppose Ant-Man could summon an army of dust mites to take out The Atom in his tiny form. But, well... He's Ray Palmer, welcome to pain.

 

Steel (John Henry Irons) vs. Iron-Man (Tony Stark)

For clarification this version of Steel would be back when he just had a really cool suit, not when he became DC's Colosuss. Of course Iron-Man has a million suits to choose from and God this topic could be fleshed out in so many ways. For the sake of argument lets go with the one Steel had in Reign of the Supermen vs. Tony Stark's latest suit. If Steel gets in close he will wreck shit up but Iron Man has a range advantage that I think would help him immensely and I think that's what Tony would do is keep leading Steel and firing until he's worn the other guy's armor down, then go in close and finish him off.

 

Aquaman (Arthur Curry) vs. Namor the Sub-Mariner

Namor has all of Aquaman's powers (including talking to fish) but he's a lot stronger and can fly. Prince Namor>King Arthur.

 

Green Arrow (Oliver Queen) vs. Hawkeye (Clint Barton)

I would've said Green Arrow, but that was before Clint Barton became some sort of ninja warlord master when he was Ronin. So I think Hawkeye's an easy win here.

 

The Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) vs. Nova (Richard Rider)

I love Hal, but right now Nova is just so ridiculously over-powered that its pretty much gotta be him. Though I don't think Hal would go down easily.

 

The Flash (Barry Allen) vs. Quicksilver (Pietro Maximoff)

This barely even counts as a challenge, The Flash wins.

 

The Creeper (Jack Ryder) vs. Wolverine (James Howlett/Logan)

This is a pretty even fight based on powers alone, but Wolverine's edge is that he's a better fighter and he's got those claws. It would pretty much come down to whether Wolverine could keep hacking The Creeper up faster than he could heal, but The Creeper does have super strength and agility that rival Spider-Man so he'd have to be able to keep up with him. Nonetheless, though he's quite modest about this fact, Wolverine is the best there is at what he does.

 

Black Canary (Dinah Lance) vs. Mockingbird (Barbara Morse)

I don't know a lot about Mockingbird but Black Canary is a pretty good martial artist so I'll give it to her.

 

Big Barda (Barda Free) vs. Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers)

Ms. Marvel is no slouch when it comes to fighting and she's immensely powerful at that. But Barda is a female furie (Apokolips' defense force) and her Mega-Rod effectively makes her like a 6-foot-tall female Thor.

 

There, that's plenty to get us started.

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awesome thread.

 

1) i totally forgot bout Thundra, but she can hang on Hulk/Thing level, yeah? if so, she's at least in her weight class. would Valkyrie or uh (i gotta go dig up that issue where 3 tough broads took on Red Hulk) be better mebbe?

 

2) Is there a good Deadman counterpart (Ghost Rider)? also: Punisher vs Deathstroke: no good? the latter might be a bit too out of his league.

Sgt Rock vs Fury? Zatana vs Strange? Bucky-Cap or Luke Cage vs Guy Gardner? Moon Knight vs Nightwing? uhm...Iron Fist vs whoever their Shang Chi is?

 

3) not as interesting, but since Nova's currently off the charts, what about GL vs one of Galactus' non-Surfer heralds? surely someone else in the cosmic Marvel would work? i once kinda wondered how he'd fare against Iron Man.

 

keep it comin'.

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I'm not nearly as informed about DC characters as Marvel ones. I guess I know more than the average bear just from soaking it up via some sort of weird comic book store osmosis, but still. I may have to bounce some questions off you guys.

 

Can we possibly expand the title to just be character battles or something, and have Marvel vs. DC fall under that umbrella? That way we can do weird shit like Hellboy vs. The Maxx. Just an idea, it's Baytor's baby. I'm perfectly fine taking that shit elsewhere.

 

Batman vs. Black Panther is actually a damn good matchup. Just to establish, I'm using the "classic" versions of these characters. Not Weapon X T'Challa or vampire batman or any of that shit.

They both seemingly have unlimited resources, although if it came down to it Bats has the resources of a multinational company, a handful of confidants and I'm sure a few research teams if he needs it.

Panther has the entire resources of one of the most technologically advances nations on the planet completely at his disposal. And, like Baytor said, they're both genius scientist/inventor types. Maybe it's just best to take that out of the equation, since they can both create/have created something that would give them an instant win. So, no belts or gadgets. No Bat-grapples or energy daggers or sneezing powder or magic armor. Shit, no costumes. They are both wearing identical leotards that generously show their ample packages.

 

So, sheer fighting prowess. Panther and Bats are in a deserted city and they have to murder each other or the president kills a kitten or something. Physically, Batman is as close to perfect as you can get. I believe "peak human physical condition" is how they like to describe it.

Thanks to his herb, so is Black Panther.

They both have extensive training. They are both brilliant. It would be nasty and probably take a while. Keep in mind though, Panther's senses are also enhanced along with his physical attributes. There's some often overlooked useful shit there too. He can track by smell, he can see very far, he can FEEL movement in the air to help him triangulate where, say, a punch is coming from even if he can't see it.

He also has a super powered inner ear. Yeah, that means he can hear really well (though not on Daredevil levels), but it also effects balance.

 

At the end of the day, I think Black Panther is the win on this one.

Who's cooler? Batman, you fools.

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not as interesting, but since Nova's currently off the charts, what about GL vs one of Galactus' non-Surfer heralds? surely someone else in the cosmic Marvel would work? i once kinda wondered how he'd fare against Iron Man.

 

 

Cosmic marvel heroes at this point would kill and rape GL.

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see, i wanna say The Spectre sounds like an interesting call, but a) newt's kinda right about Surfer's power level being off the charts at the moment and b) ive never really had that guy's power set down in my mind. i just know he's powerful and on bout vengeance (might be a good match for Ghost Rider?), i think Parallax/Hal Jordan is the only character ive seen own him.

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They're both off the charts. I think The Spectre is practically omnipotent.

 

As far as Flash vs. Quicksilver goes, that doesn't even seem remotely fair to me. Even though they're both guys that run fast, it's not on the same level. Flash also has a bunch of other little speed force tricks besides just moving quickly. More than I feel like going on about until we get a real fight going. Quicksilver at top speed would be a statue to Flash. And Barry Allen? Shiiiiiiit. Last I heard, they were saying he was the Speed Force. The guy is obscenely powerful.

 

What about The Flash vs. The Runner?

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There's a lot of speedsters in the Marvel universe, but even if you dig into Squadron Supreme/sinister (which i feel is kind of cheating) nobody beats the Flash. He's just ridiculously overpowered. There is no good Deadman counterpart, I searched far and wide for one and there's not a single Marvel character I've found that works. The same sadly applies for Jonah Hex, there's just no Marvel western heroes he wouldn't go all Pale Rider on. Also that Thundra/Hulk battle was bullshit and she barely even fought him, she's on-par with Wonder woman. Valkyrie's a little too godlike for that to be a fair fight.

 

First let me address the Sgt. Rock vs. Nick Fury one. If we go WW2 then they're on an even keel, but Nick Fury's some kind of goddamn super spy now and Frank Rock died in 1945. There was a version of Rock that appeared in that godawful Suicide Squad revival from 2003 but nothing in that entire book made any fucking sense and he apparently wasn't even actually Sgt. Rock at the end. So for that I've chosen the on-again-off-again squad leader of suicide squad Colonel Rick Flag

 

Flag vs. Fury:

Flag's a lot younger and a lot more inexperienced, he's also a little mentally unstable seeing as how every time he goes on a mission he tends to come back the only survivor. He is however, no slouch in hand to and or armed combat and has frequently taken on much tougher and skilled enemies than himself and won. Fury however (assuming he's not just using a life model decoy in this fight) probably has all manner of high tech gadgetry waiting to pop out his ass and win the battle for him. For what it's worth if it were hand to hand I think it would be really hard to call, but half of Fury's skill is just how fucking tricky he is so I'll go with Fury.

 

Azrael (Jean-Paul Valley) vs. Moon Knight (Marc Spector)

It's Saint Dumas vs. Khonshu in the battle of the copyright infringement lawsuit avatars. Both of these guys are crazier than shithouse rats, both have been trained in various levels of white-guy karate, both have an abusive bastard of a god on their side. I'll be nice and give Moon Knight his magical moon powers back since Azrael has the advantage of flaming swords, stealth isn't an option for either since they both wear very eye-catching costumes. It's a toss up, the flaming swords give Azrael a pretty good advantage right out the gate but the guy's prone to just blacking out and becoming some sort of whirling death machine that fights with all the skill and precision of a tumble dryer filled with ginsu knives. No matter how crazy, Moon Knight is usually together enough to keep his mind in the game. So assuming that he can stay out of the way of those blade guantlets, he could probably land a few good blows and maybe take Azrael out.

 

Dr. Fate (Kent Nelson) vs. Dr. Strange (Stephen Strange)

I'm gonna have to defer to Joel on this one as I don't know a whole hell of a lot about Dr. Fate or any of those Justice Society folk. I'm inclined to give it to Strange since the DC universe go through Dr. Fates like The Great Lakes Avengers go through Grasshoppers. But maybe I'm wrong, I remember the one from the 90s who looked and sounded kinda like Gambit was pretty badass and had this big demon arm that was pretty cool, but I went with the original since I figured that it was the closest to Dr. Strange of the bunch.

 

The Spectre (Jim Corrigan) vs. Drax the Destroyer (Arthur Sampson Douglas)

This may seem like a weird match-up but they literally share almost the exact same origin story except instead of being a prototype version of The Crow, Drax was born from some poor sap who happened to be driving by when Thanos was flying over and killed him just cause he's a dick. I'm going with the Jim Corrigan version of The Spectre, cause even that version's overpowered. KratosDrax obviously doesn't have any awesome ghost abilities, but he was tailor made to kill big extra-dimensional beings that are really fucking hard to kill and he's shown that anything this side of the Infinity Gauntlet is something he can at least deal with. If he did win though, he would sure as hell earn it.

 

Zatanna Zatara vs. Jennifer Kale

I'm going to go with the current version of Kale since she needs all the help she can get with Zatanna. Jennifer recently broke into the raft to liberate Man-Thing and take him back to Citrusville, she's shown to have become a very powerful witch of late even with all that Marvel Zombies nonsense holding her back. Now the way these two cast magic is a big factor, Zatanna speaks spells, Jennifer uses gestures and if you disable that then they're pretty much done for so all Zatanna has to do is go "em edisni kcoc desaesid s'enitnatsnoc nhoj tup dna ogitrev ot kcab og ot tnaw i, hctib smra ruoy evom t'nod" and Kale's done, inversely all Kale has to do is cast a spell to shut Zatanna up. So it's really who's quicker on the draw, I vote Greedo.

 

Vigilante (Dorian Chase) vs. The Punisher (Frank Castle)

Vigilante is DC's answer to the Punisher, though I was tempted to use Wild Dog a character who got a limited series in the 80s where he kept Des Moines, Iowa safe from Terrorists (why some version of him hasn't appeared on Smallville is a mystery to me, and it's a goddamn shame) still I'll stick with Vigilante. Now I'm going with the normal version of Frank Castle the "you just rented a jet ski to the Punisher, kiss that baby goodbye" version, not the grim "I enjoy killing because I was in Vietnam, where's some how button issues I can beat to death in a graphic fashion" version. Sorry Ennis-ites (though Marvel Knights Punisher is pretty on-par), I'm a fucking purist and you're just gonna have to life with it. Vigilante, despite his stupid costume, is actually pretty kickass. He's basically Batman with guns and that's not an easy match for the Punisher who lives out of a van on drug money and disposable side-kicks. Still, it takes an obscene amount to take down Frank Castle and Vigilante is not going to have an easy time of it. Also, one thing Ennis definitely got right is Punisher's ability to kill pretty much anything with anything when he's dying of mortal gunshot wounds (I think The Punisher loses about 3-4 gallons of blood per week, and it seems like the more mortal the wounds the more comically easy it is for him to dispatch the foe in a ridiculous way. The only things I've ever seen actually kill Frank Castle were large amounts of radiation and Wolverine as a vampire. So The Punisher wins.

 

Deathstroke the Terminator (Slade WIlson) vs. Elektra Natchios

This fight would be fucking epic. Obviously Slade has guns, usually 3 or 4 but Elektra doesn't seem to consider those to be a problem. This would come to close quarters combat and Elektra's sai have a definite speed advantage vs. Slade's range advantage (but slower speed) with his longsword. She'd also probably use his handicap against him, I think this fight deserves some discussion because it really would be pretty hard to call.

 

Bronze Tiger (Ben Turner) vs. Iron Fist (Danny Rand)

Bronze Tiger is a master of cat-style martial arts (whatever that means) and he's been trained by Ra's Al Ghul's league of assassins. Now Danny is a master of Whiteguy-Fu but Bronze Tiger's taken on denizens of Apokolips with pretty favorable results (this is to say, he lived and didn't get beaten to a pulp) and I don't doubt that he could avoid Danny's signature move. Of course I'd say otherwise they're fairly closely matched on martial arts but that league of assassins training I think gives Bronze Tiger the leg up in this fight.

 

Orion vs. The Silver Surfer (Norrin Radd)

Orion is the son of Darkseid, this as you can imagine makes him a badass in its own right. He also has the cosmic harness which gives him insane cosmic powers (seeing as both The Surfer and Orion were created by Kirby it should be no surprise that they're a lot alike.) If the cosmic harness is removed, Orion is weakened but keep in mind he also beat his dad in hand to hand combat without the aid of it so just cause he can't shoot lasers and shit doesn't mean he couldn't beat the fuck out of the Silver Surfer, similarly the surfer is weaker without his board but he's still far from weak. I gotta give it to Orion though, he's a force to be reckoned with and I don't think even the power cosmic could take him down.

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Hawkman (Carter Hall) vs. Thor (Donald Blake)

I suppose Donald Blake doesn't really factor on this fight and I'm going to go with Carter Hall not Katar Hol because all that Thanagar bullshit doesn't even beging to make sense to me and is honestly kind of dumb. Thor is more powerful of the two and his flight ability isn't intended on some sort of retarded wing backpack, but Hawkman is no slouch in the dishing/receving pain department. It'd be a close fight but I'd say Mijolnir would be just a bit too much for Hawkman's power mace.

 

 

Deathstroke the Terminator (Slade WIlson) vs. Elektra Natchios

This fight would be fucking epic. Obviously Slade has guns, usually 3 or 4 but Elektra doesn't seem to consider those to be a problem. This would come to close quarters combat and Elektra's sai have a definite speed advantage vs. Slade's range advantage (but slower speed) with his longsword. She'd also probably use his handicap against him, I think this fight deserves some discussion because it really would be pretty hard to call.

 

 

 

Orion vs. The Silver Surfer (Norrin Radd)

Orion is the son of Darkseid, this as you can imagine makes him a badass in its own right. He also has the cosmic harness which gives him insane cosmic powers (seeing as both The Surfer and Orion were created by Kirby it should be no surprise that they're a lot alike.) If the cosmic harness is removed, Orion is weakened but keep in mind he also beat his dad in hand to hand combat without the aid of it so just cause he can't shoot lasers and shit doesn't mean he couldn't beat the fuck out of the Silver Surfer, similarly the surfer is weaker without his board but he's still far from weak. I gotta give it to Orion though, he's a force to be reckoned with and I don't think even the power cosmic could take him down.

 

161kspx.jpg

 

Your high if you think that:

 

A)Hawkman vs Thor the god of thunder will ever be a close fight.

 

B) Elektra has the skills to take on Deathstroke.

 

C)The Silver Surfer is weak without his board and that Orion can beat him.

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i knew dick about Deathstroke (bish/others have sworn by Judas covenant or some arc from way back?) but he sure fucked up the JLA good and proper in Identity Crisis, and no DC fan i saw called bullshit so given the fact that I think Elektra's been crazy-overrated for a few years now, i think it's his to lose, could be wrong.

 

Azrael vs Moony is a great matchup, good call man. There's gotta be someone better for Nightwing than Bucky-Cap. likewise, the best i can pair up with Lobo is Cosmic Deadpool, i'm sure that's happened at least once at this point.

 

any good Bronze Tiger or Vigilante stories? I dont think ive even seen either of them.

 

also, Logan's idea of opening this up to other universes could be fun, Maxx/Hellboy would be short but an interesting drawing anyway. so many people to pair up with Spawn, Invincible etc.

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Hawkman has god-like powers too, he just isn't a god,I will concede though that Thor vs. Superman would be a pretty even fight. You're vastly under-estimating Elektra. And you've apparently never read Walt Simonson's run on Orion, he's crazy fucking powerful as is pretty much everybody in Kirby's Fourth World.

 

Most of Vigiante's stories have been confined to his own books, as for Bronze Tiger: check out the 80s run on The Suicide Squad. It's one of the better runs on anything I've ever read.

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There's a lot of speedsters in the Marvel universe, but even if you dig into Squadron Supreme/sinister (which i feel is kind of cheating) nobody beats the Flash. He's just ridiculously overpowered.

 

Runner is a speedster. His primary schtick is to run...across the universe...using his legs. I don't think Flash would have an easy win here, if he had a win at all.

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Hawkman has god-like powers too, he just isn't a god,I will concede though that Thor vs. Superman would be a pretty even fight. You're vastly under-estimating Elektra. And you've apparently never read Walt Simonson's run on Orion, he's crazy fucking powerful as is pretty much everybody in Kirby's Fourth World.

 

Most of Vigiante's stories have been confined to his own books, as for Bronze Tiger: check out the 80s run on The Suicide Squad. It's one of the better runs on anything I've ever read.

 

Hawkman does not have god-like powers. He may be strong but one hit from the hammer is all thor needs.

 

Elektra only fights Daredevil and poorly trained ninjas. Deathstroke fights everybody.

 

I agree that Orion is strong as hell but the Surfer has powers and ablites that put him far above Orion.

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I wouldn't throw "god" around too much to quickly wrap up battles. Thor is an alien.

That said...I can't even see how Hawkman could injure Thor.

What about Hawks vs. Archangel?

 

SPEAKING OF WHICH! Tangent time:

I read X-Men: Second Coming recently and Archangel seems to have the ability to switch back and forth between his normal and Horseman forms. How is that even possible? He wills his wings to turn into metal and then back into feathers? I don't get it. Is it maybe some sort of hologram like Nightcrawler used to use to turn into Burt Reynolds? The only way it makes sense in my head is if it's that or magic based.

Anyone who doesn't read X-Men in sporadic bursts like me able to quickly explain this for me?

Thanks.

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Wiki says this-

 

Celestial technology wings

 

Archangel possesses a set of metal techno-organic wings grafted onto him by the genetic engineering of Apocalypse when Apocalypse renames him the Horseman of Death.[36] These wings are composed of a hard, sharp, organic material that resembles the "organic steel" of Colossus' body. The wings give him the ability to project his metallic feathers out from his wings at great speed and with tremendous force, enabling them to pierce even steel.

 

Archangel does not have complete control over his feathers, which sometimes shoot from his wings against his conscious will in response to his unconscious aggressive drives. The feathers are laced with a neural inhibitor chemical, generated by Archangel's body, which induces temporary paralysis.

 

These wings allow him to fly at speeds much faster than his natural, organic wings. The edges of these metal wings are also quite sharp, allowing them to be used as weapons.

 

While he believes he has lost his metal wings when he re-grows his organic ones, the Celestial Technology never leaves his system, and his natural-appearing wings contain the Celestial technology. When implanted into regular human beings, the technology induces a transformation similar to that of Warren's. When his feathered wings are severed from his body by Wolfsbane, his metal wings grow back in their place. Furthermore, his skin reverts back to blue and his old Archangel costume appears.[volume & issue needed] Warren's body returns to normal — the metal wings being replaced with the appearance of his feathered ones — indicating that Warren has the ability to switch between metal and feathered wings and his Angel and Archangel appearances.[37] During a battle with Selene's Coven, Blink teleports Warren's wings apart, shredding them to pieces. However, within minutes, they begin to painfully re-grow, indicating his healing factor may still exist.[volume & issue needed] However, as it is shown in issue 14 of X-Men: Second Coming, Dr. Nemesis questions the rate that they would grow as the biology is different than Colossus' armor.[volume & issue needed]

 

 

 

Id like to know folks' view on a Hulk vs Superman scenario.

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Id like to know folks' view on a Hulk vs Superman scenario.

 

Depends on which Hulk. If we're talking typical "Hulk smash" man-child Hulk, then Superman wins, just because he's actually a pretty clever dude and he has a lot of experience with shit like this.

 

Who's stronger: Hulk. Easily. Superman has a measurable limit to his strength, Hulk doesn't. There may have been more extremes since, but the last Hulk book I read was Planet Hulk and the dude held tectonic plates together.

 

Now if we're talking that Hulk, intelligent and able to formulate strategy, we'd have a longer fight on our hands. Superman can fly though. Hulk can throw shit at him and jump into the stratosphere, but Superman is most likely winning in the end. I don't know how exactly he'd win, I think that heat vision would just tickle Hulk, and if he gets close enough to brawl he risks getting tagged hard.

 

I'm...actually not so sure now that I think about it.

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ive only noticed that since just before he joined X-Factor; mighta gone down when Cary was writing x-men (he's been hit/miss for me since Hellblazer), might have to wiki that shit. that said, he's not at all in Hawkman's weight class, they both just fly.

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Huh. I got around to the Wiki, I thought Warren had some more to him. Apparently, he just has peak human athletecism/reflexes, and an inconsistent healing factor. I distinctly remember that he could launch his metal feathers too, but that doesn't really matter...

 

And (here's the kicker), hollow bones. I had completely forgotten about that. Hollow bones + Mace = Splat.

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Fine, I'll switch out Hawkmans. Instead of Carter Hall, let's say Zauriel. Chew on that one for a while.

 

I'll still stand by Elektra since she's managed to fight both Paladin and The Punisher (the only other competitors in the "DC Universe's Deathstroke" competition) to a stand-still and she's usually a lot more awesome in non-Daredevil books.

 

And I'll stand by Orion, in the crossover, Darkseid beat the Silver Surfer (though he didn't beat Galactus) but Orion beat Darkseid without his cosmic harness. Maybe he'd need to take off his mothebox to do it, but I stand by my choice.

 

Man-Thing (Ted Sallis) vs. Swamp Thing (Alec Holland)

Logan and a few other are going to have to fill me in on some of the finer points of Swamp Thing, I've read a good chunk of Alan Moore's series but I know things keep changing with the guy. Both seem to be one of the more powerful beings existing on their worlds, Swamp Thing is some sort of elemental god and Man-Thing is the protector of the nexus of all realities. I know they fall back on "whatever knows fear burns at the Man-Thing's touch" but it's his "with great power comes great responsibility" I think they just like repeating it. He's ridiculously strong but also not incredibly smart and I think that's what Swamp Thing would use, he'd probably convert Man-Thing to his side unless he's somehow threatening something that Man-Thing is attached to. If it did come to a fight I still think Swamp Thing would win unless somehow something Man-Thing does make him afraid, then he's got it in the bag.

 

Raven vs. Satana Hellstrom

So we've got the daughter of Trigon vs. the daughter of Satan. My calling this fight is partially influenced by my only reading a few books with each of these characters and thus not knowing a whole hell of a lot about either one. Wikipedia tells me that they're fairly evenly matched up as far as magic and other powers go, though I'm inclined to give it to Satana as she has absolutely no conscience and would probably cheat wherever she finds a way to do so.

 

Etrigan the Demon (Jason Blood) vs. Ghost Rider (Johnny Blaze)

This one actually did appear in the Marvel vs. DC book, but it only got one panel. Johnny Blaze has come a long way since then, he's The Ghost Rider again and it's been revealed that he's some sort of killer angel (it sounds dumb, but they made it work.) Etrigan as always is pretty much a complete badass. Now obviously, the key power these two have (hellfire) is going to be no use in this fight seeing as they're both immune. So it's going to be a fight of brute strength and chains. Obviously Ghost Rider has the speed advantage on his bike, and even if he gets knocked off he can summon it to him, though I don't see his chains causing Etrigan much grief. Of course, it's been shown that when The Ghost Rider is in full control (like when the Hulk bitch-slapped him and took Johnny out) he has a ridiculous amount of power that Etrigan just couldn't compete with.

 

Detective Chimp vs. Howard the Duck

I'll admit this is mostly a joke, but they're both canon characters so lets pursue this. Howard is a cigar chomping working class everyman whose only ability to his name is his ability to use "quack fu." I don't even remember if he even ever used it in the Steve Gerber comics but I'll leave it seeing as Chimp has a few points on him since he has genius level intellect and a chimpanzee is no doubt stronger than an anthropomorphic duck. I love Howard but I don't see him winning this one. (I refuse to use Hitman monkey for this, as far as I'm concerned He, Galacta, and any other of those terrible Marveldotcom characters don't exist)

 

Deadshot (Floyd Lawton) vs. Bullseye (Lester ???)

These two are pretty much the same character, they have no moral compass, they're fiercely deadly with any sort of projectile weapon, and they hate rooftop-hopping vigilantes in horned costumes. Deadshot pretty much sticks with guns most of the time, especially those gauntlets on his costume, but he's used other projectiles in the past, showing that he's pretty good when it comes to throwing things as well. There's also one thing about Deadshot that could work for or against him: he has a death wish, but he'll only accept it from somebody who's good enough to kill him. Bullseye could very well be that person, but Deadshot fights without a lot of concern for his own personal health and not only is he a good shot, but in the 2007 suicide squad series he was able to follow Captain Boomerang's speed powers and claimed he could see every beat of a hummingbirds wings. I'm gonna go with Deadshot.

Edited by Iambaytor
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Detective Chimp vs. Howard the Duck

I'll admit this is mostly a joke

Nonsense, this match up is of equal importance to every other match up I've seen on this thread so far. The real question is whom shall take on Slapstick? My initial inclination is Mister Mxyzptlk, but I actually think Bat-Mite would be a fairer fight.

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Well, Wiki lists Etrigan as having super-speed as one of his abilities. More than that, his ridiculous healing factor borders on immortality and he feels pain as pleasure. It's a fairly even fight, though - Etrigan has been shown capable of going against Superman, and Ghost Rider's been shown to go up against the Hulk. This'd be a fun matchup to see.

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I would love to go on about all the cool things Swamp Thing did in that Alan Moore run, and I just may later, but it all boils down to one thing: There is no conceivable way that Man-Thing could harm Swamp-Thing.

 

There's nothing to harm. He can destroy a body, but then Swamps can just grow a new one anywhere out of any plant, including Man-Thing himself.

 

Swamps is consciousness, he exists in "the green", which is basically a matrix that connects all plant life. he can teleport anywhere instantly by simply willing a plant to become a new body and moving is consciousness into it. He controls all forms of plant matter.

 

There were 2 issues where he almost destroyed Gotham City single handedly because they arrested his girlfriend and were charging her with crimes against nature. Bats couldn't do shit except try to reason with him. Lex Luthor stopped him, but he couldn't kill him.

 

One story that is pertinent to this particular battle: The Swamps consciousness is out of synch and bouncing from planet to planet, growing a body out of whatever particular type of alien foliage is native there and trying to work his way back to earth. One planet he lands on is inhabited by sentient, technologically advanced vegetable based people. When he unknowingly tries to grow a body, he ends up fusing a fair portion of the populace together into a crude likeness of himself. This doesn't kill them...it's just very painful, and since they all have their own thoughts and feelings all fused with his, he goes a little crazy for a bit.

Luckily, they had a Green Lantern for events just like these. It's basically Godzilla Swamp-Thing wrecking shit and the Lantern doesn't want to hurt him because he's made out of people. I don't remember how it ends, but it was a cool story. And it sets a precedent.

 

Man-Thing is Swamp-Thing. It could be argued that they're different incarnations of the same thing, Man-Thing is just much more primal. Swamp-Thing is a plant that used to believe it was once a man, and remembers how to think like one. Man-Thing is the thing that feels.

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