Dawn of the Planet of the Apes

[Panch]

A reboot, if you will.

[Iambaytor]

It is, but it isn't. There's nothing in this series that directly counteracts that one due to the time paradox in the original, the original could just be a descendant of the current Caesar.

[alive she cried]

Yeah, that's what I love about this. Rise of The Planet of The Apes was a sequel, a prequel, a remake and reboot.

[Keth]

[Reverend Jax]

It is, but it isn't. There's nothing in this series that directly counteracts that one due to the time paradox in the original, the original could just be a descendant of the current Caesar.

Well, things are happening very differently. The have been no time-traveling Cornelius and Zira, no media sensation over them, not plague killing all cats and dogs, and no worldwide system of ape slavery. It's definitely not canon with the original 5 film series. It's a reboot. X-Men First Class and Star Trek 2009 you can make argument how they are reboots that fit in the prior films' continuity, but this one doesn't.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Reverend Jax

[Iambaytor]

Those things happened in a divergent timeline, they haven't happened yet because zira and Cornelius won't be born for centuries and their career isn't this Caesar nor is this timeline theirs, things progressed differently because a pair of highly evolved apes didn't land in New York City so anything that happened in those movies was due to the butterfly effect kind of like how Skynet still gained sentience despite the fact that John and Sarah Connor stopped it from doing so years earlier, the planet still becomes void of human life but the ripple in time created by the time traveling apes caused ot to occur a different way. Thus: prequel, sequel, reboot, remake.

[Panch]

[Iambaytor]

Also, I don't think the John Connor born from Kyle Reese's sperm is the same John Connor that sent Kyle back in time to protect his mother.

[Panch]

Wait, explain that.

[alive she cried]

John Connor sent Kyle back in time to protect a young him (John).
Kyle fathers [i]a[/i] John Connor (but not the John that sent Kyle back).
John Connor is in existence [i]before [/i]Kyle was ever sent back.
Therefore another man fathered the original John Connor, Kyle fathered the John we know. Edited May 12, 2013 by alive she cried

[Iambaytor]

Sarah Connor goes out clubbing with her friends, she meets a normal 20th century guy who gets her pregnant and she gives birth to a boy she names John. The apocalypse happens and John rises to the occasion and mounts a resistance against the machines. The machines send a Terminator back in time to kill John and stop him from existence so he sends one of his trusted soldiers, Kyle Reese back in time to protect her. Sarah and Kyle have sex and she gets pregnant with a boy who she names John, after the charismatic leader Kyle told her about. He is still John Connor, but he has a different father and thus is a different person. You can even take this a step farther and say that after Terminator Revelations, John sends Kyle so that he can be born and this further divergent timeline is where The Sarah Connor Chronicles comes into play.

[Panch]

I don't know, man. I don't think that's how it works.

[alive she cried]

How could it work any other way? How could you be alive before your parents fucked?

[Thrizzle]

Time travel, man. That's how.

 

That Terminator thing actually makes perfect sense and it should be canon.

 

I'll simplify the Planet of the Apes thing on step further. The events of Rise lead to a a world of the original Planet of the Apes. Zira and Cornelius go back in time, and this creates a divergent timeline. You don't ever change the future, think of it like forks in a stream.

 

There are holes, though. They allude to the Apes being used as slave labor in Beneath, and that doesn't happen in the Rise timeline. Beneath should be the original un-muddled timeline, so that wouldn't be the case.

 

So it kinda works. It's not as water tight as the John Connor thing, which I can't praise enough.

[Iambaytor]

No, beneath doesn't have to be original timeline, we don't know how many times Zira and Cornelius have done the time loop prior to the original series, them going back didn't change the future, it created a parallel universe that's different from the original. The only constants are that apes became hyper evolved, they dominated the planet, and that some astronauts came through a wormhole and fucked everything up. If the series progresses as planned then we'll see what happened in the zero timeline that caused Zira and Cornelius to go back. Maybe Taylor wasn't responsible for blowing up the planet in timeline zero.

[Reverend Jax]

John Connor sent Kyle back in time to protect a young him (John).

Kyle fathers a John Connor (but not the John that sent Kyle back).

John Connor is in existence before Kyle was ever sent back.

Therefore another man fathered the original John Connor, Kyle fathered the John we know.

Yeah, that's not how it happened. John always sends Kyle back specifically because he knows Kyle is his father, because Sarah told him. That's why he chooses Kyle. Kyle has always been John's father. How? Time travel. That's how it works.

[Panch]

What Jax said.

[Iambaytor]

Yeah, that's not how it happened. John always sends Kyle back specifically because he knows Kyle is his father, because Sarah told him. That's why he chooses Kyle. Kyle has always been John's father. How? Time travel. That's how it works.

 

That's bullshit and makes no goddamn sense. Think of it this way? Why does the apocalypse still happen in Terminator 3 in spite of the fact that they destroyed Cyberdyne's files in Terminator 2? Because the Terminator was cyberdine technology from timeline A, they would've built SkyNet on their own but since they could reverse engineer their own stuff from the distant future they were able to do it faster, thus what happened in Terminator 3 where SkyNet gained self-awareness anyway.

 

The series as a whole even supports this thinking, John mentions in whatever R word that part 4 was called that despite the fact that his mother prepared him for the future there was a great deal of stuff he bore witness to that Kyle never told her even though Kyle obviously was sent back in time several years after the events of that movie and would be privy to that information.

 

Maybe John has sent Kyle back several times knowing he's his father, but there had to have been an original timeline where this didn't happen because if John's father has always been someone younger than him then there never would've been a John Connor to send Kyle Reese back in time to begin with.

[Reverend Jax]

You think of time travel and timelines too linearly. You think there has to be a "first time" before time travelers can go back. That's not how it would work, and it's not how it worked in the Terminator movies.

[Panch]

Damn, I want to +1 that so bad. Will when it reloads.

[Iambaytor]

You think of time travel and timelines too linearly. You think there has to be a "first time" before time travelers can go back. That's not how it would work, and it's not how it worked in the Terminator movies.

 

If something doesn't exist then it can't send something back in time, there does have to be a first time.

[Reverend Jax]

No, there doesn't.

[alive she cried]

[Iambaytor]

No, there doesn't.

 

Really? Then who sends Kyle Reese back? It can't be John Connor because he doesn't exist.

[Panch]

John Connor is born because he sent Reese back. There's no who came first. The past, present and future exist at the same time. Like Jax said and I was thinking: it's not linear.

Edited May 13, 2013 by Panch