Jumbie Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 So, this afternoon I got into it with my eight-year old neighbor, when I said that all Jedi disappeared when they died. He quickly brought up Qui-gon. Stupidly, I insisted that Qui-gon's body disappeared, until the kid reminded me of Qui-gon's funeral at the end of Phantom Menace. It's bad enough I lost a Star Wars argument at all (much less to someone who still hasn't gotten his permanent teeth), but I now realize I have no idea how this disappearing trick with Jedi works. Yoda and Obi-Wan disappeared when they died. Vader did not. Can't remember any of the Jedi killed in the prequel fights dying either. Anyone knows what the disappearing Jedi bodies are about and what the rules governing them are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 yeah, theyre usually tidy, like The Hand. Ive asked this myself, its a glaring inconsistency. since TopDawg's not around, ill ask the SW book fanboy in my dept for his answer that the writers came up with when lucas didnt bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 It's quite simple, in the 70s and 80s, a dead body was bad unless it was encased in white plastic armor. Wheras now, a guy getting chopped in half and dropped into a reactor core passes for PG-13. That and George Lucas huffed a lot spraypaint between Return of the Jedi and The Phantom Menace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbie Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 I'd go along with that except for the gruesome burning corpses at the Lars family farm in ANH. Oh yeah, and the dead and smoking Ewoks, and anything the Rancor took a bite out of. ================================== Whatever Lucas was huffing by the way, Spray paint wasn't it-something much more potent. Direct injections of lead is my thinking at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Sigh...evidently, disappearing at death was only something that happened if you die at peace. Which is why Obi-Wan held up his lightsaber and let Darth Vader strike him down. Die while fighting and no disappearing act. Evidently, Yoda implied at the end of Episode 3 that Qui-Gon was the one who discovered how to come back as a ghost, and he taught the trick to Yoda, who taught it to Obi-Wan. I don't consider it to be logical or consistant, but that's the explanation. Jumbie got served by an 8 year old. Damn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbie Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share Posted September 18, 2006 Did some digging, came up with this: According to the nerds who wrote the Wikipedia article, Qui-gon discovered the secret of immortality and taught it AFTER his death to Yoda and Obi-wan. (who beacme his apprentices) Why Qui-gon's body doesn't dissappear if he's the first of the immortal Jedi is never explained. Also why Anakin/ Vader shows up at the party in the Ewok village is never explained either. Luke seems to burn Vader's dead body after all... though all we ever really see is a helmet. ----------------------- Final verdict: In the end only 2 things are certain 1- Lucas is a cunt who couldn't keep his shit straight & 2- Tomorrow a certain precocious 8-year old is gonna find out the truth about Santa, The Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy all in one day. (about his mother too for that matter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifter Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Yeah, I caught that "Qui-Gon from beyond the grave teaches Yoda about imortality" bit from the comic adaptation of the last Star Wars movie (which ironically came out two weeks before the movie was released). The scene where Obi-Wan walks in where Yoda is medatating after Padame gives birth was suppose to have been extended with a Qui-Gon voice-over ala "use the force, Luke" and all you got was a ghostly reflection in Yoda's eyes of Qui-Gon that you miss if you're not looking for it. Strangely you got the Qui-Gon voice-over in the second movie when Anakin goes postal on the sand people (which goes to say that this WAS planned, though badly executed). But we're still left with why some Jedi can appear as ghosts while others can't and why the bodies of some Jedi dissapear at death when other's don't. The way I understand it is that the spirit of a Jedi still remains after death and can continue to learn and grow long after they have shed their mortal bonds. So it is possible for a ghost to go to jedi night school and get vocational training on "how to appear as a ghost" and they can also take the advanced course on "how to turn a whiney farm boy into a Jedi Master." As for why some dissapear and others don't, while never said, and this is my own take on it. For some reason not given, (possibly to hide from the emperor or to make it possible to sense or influence events from afar) Yoda and Obi-Wan infused themselves with massive "doses" of the force and thereby saturate every fiber of their being with it; again, this makes The Force less of a mystic phenomenon and more like fucking radiation poisoning but Lucas is a bitch that way constantly re-defining what exactly the force is (fucking medichlorians). And so once they die, the force dissapates and they go poof. Keep in mind, this means that only two Jedi have gone and possibly will poof once dead: Yoda and Obi-Wan. Too bad, because it was pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Yeah, I caught that "Qui-Gon from beyond the grave teaches Yoda about imortality" bit from the comic adaptation of the last Star Wars movie (which ironically came out two weeks before the movie was released). another one of you kids! what's the deal with reading the adaptation before experiencing the movie? i never get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifter Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 It's not like I wasn't going to see the movie anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Right, but...i mean, whatever pains the director took for delivery, dramatic affect etc (granted, this is a lucas film) are kinda shot if you just read the graphic novel the week before, arent they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifter Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 The two are never exacly the same, and a lot of good stuff that ends up on the cutting room floor for the sake of time are often found in said comic adaptation. And just because you have aforementioned knowledge of the narative doesn't mean you can't enjoy the visual delivery of a motion picture as compared to artist rendering in a still life formate that you have previously read. Why the hell do people watch movies more than once if that were the case; because they would already know the ending... hell, it would be worse because they have already seen the same pictures, same dialogue and same movement shot for shot beforehand? I think this psychotic opostion to "spoilers" that some people have is purely compulsive in natiure and has no basis in what passes as reality or reason; i.e. ist bullshit. How do people decide if they even want to see the movie if they don't have at least some idea of the characters, actors, of even the overall plot? I enjoy a wide variety of shit, a lot of it bad and kampy. The idea that I go by is if the movie matches or exceeds my EXPECTATIONS in story and dilivery; not taking blind stabs in the dark or throwing darts at a movie marquis and seeing what I hit. Nothing is worse than going to see a movie under the wrong impression of what you are about to see. I once made the mistake of going to see the movie 8mm on a first date... needless to say there was no second and I don't even remember the poor girl's name. How bad would it be for you even if you went to see a movie entitled Beerfest and found yourself sitting through a 2 hour documentary on Hopps as used in Bavarian Culture? So give me all the spoilers you can; I'll eat them up, belch out a movie review, and ask for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 True, but im not arguing reading the graphic novel adaptation, re-watching, any of that: im saying, id like to go to The Sixth Sense knowing its a horror movie with Bruce Willis, its about dead people and its kinda scary, not that he's dead himself. After all, knowing that, what was the fun of piecing it together or figuring it out when its laid out for you at the end? Granted, you know the Titanic's gonna sink, and Sam Jackon is gonna beat those snakes, but i wanna let the cinematography show me how. I shouldnt be arguing this with you, mind you: you ruined the first Pokemon movie for me years ago. And we both know that was one of the finest pieces of cinema our era has seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifter Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Hey, all I said was that Mewtwo was probably using his mind controled Nurse Joy as a sex slave. How was I suppose to know that you didn't realize that the "mysterious woman" was Nurse Joy #356. That just goes to show that you should pay more attention to different nuances in art styles when watching animation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 what the...? i just remember you saying "yeah its shitty, the whole thing is a dream!" and then bam, the magic of figuring out how the continuity errors of Team Rocket's coming to terms with their homosexuality, Psi-Duck's mental homicide of Prof. X, all the cataclysmic ramifications of that epic film, all of it, gone with a brief statement. I never healed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifter Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Oh, no no, that was the SECOND Pokemon movie. Yeah, I'm sorry about that. I was just making a wild guess, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Bob Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 Anyway, about the Jedi, I always thought it made enough sense. Jax is right, Jedi disappear on death if they're at peace, if they've accepted their death and go willingly, if they "give up the ghost". Jedi who are suddenly cut down in battle aren't prepared for it, or at peace, so no disappeary for them. By the way, I heard that the QuiGon/Yoda scene in EpIII was only so badly executed because they couldn't get Liam Neeson to come in and play the part (he was busy with Batman Begins at the time). Apparently he did record a voiceover for the scene but for some reason they weren't able to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 By the way, I heard that the QuiGon/Yoda scene in EpIII was only so badly executed because they couldn't get Liam Neeson to come in and play the part (he was busy with Batman Begins at the time). Apparently he did record a voiceover for the scene but for some reason they weren't able to use it. Don't worry, it'll be rerecorded and edited back in and released for the 2019 20th anniversery Special Edition Prequel Trilogy Holocube Box Set. Blue ray, blue schmay, nothing beats the video and sound quality of a holocube! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted September 18, 2006 Share Posted September 18, 2006 I'd go along with that except for the gruesome burning corpses at the Lars family farm in ANH. Oh yeah, and the dead and smoking Ewoks, and anything the Rancor took a bite out of. ================================== Whatever Lucas was huffing by the way, Spray paint wasn't it-something much more potent. Direct injections of lead is my thinking at the moment. Maybe they just felt that a headless old man and a dead muppet were a bit too traumatizing, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonfire Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Basically I'm gonna go with the assumption that George Luc-ass is a fucktard. I think Randalls cross-questioning of George Lucas in Clerks TAS really sums up all the plot disparity between the 2 trilogies......and is funny as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicManiac Posted September 19, 2006 Share Posted September 19, 2006 Don't worry, it'll be rerecorded and edited back in and released for the 2019 20th anniversery Special Edition Prequel Trilogy Holocube Box Set. Blue ray, blue schmay, nothing beats the video and sound quality of a holocube! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ______________ Yeah, SiBob is right. Also the way to purify the body is through the Jedi Pyre or what is know as a right of purification passage. The spirit of the Jedi is so "Holy" that it is a sanctification of the body in a funeral by fire. As far as the physical body of a Sith is concerned, when he dies, all of the dark energy from the Force is released explosively - as seen when Emporer Palpatine dies on the Death Star II in Return Of The Jedi, and for those that believe in Expanded Universe, when the Jorus C'Baoth's clone, the Dark Jedi Master, Guardian of Mount Tantiss, Joruus C'Baoth died in "The Last Command", book three of the Thrawn triolgy by Timothy Zahn. Heres a snipit from Answers.com -Force Spirit Anakin Skywalker, Yoda and Obi-Wan Kenobi appearing before Luke in the digitally remastered DVD release of Return of the Jedi.In the Star Wars universe, a Force ghost (also known as Force Spirit) is the apparition of a deceased Jedi who has become one with the Force. During the original trilogy, it was believed that all Jedi who died became one with the Force, their bodies vanishing, and then could return as apparitions at will, so that they could help those in need of their guidance. This would happen even to fallen Jedi who repented at the end of their lives, such as Darth Vader and the Jedi Ulic Qel-Droma (from the Expanded Universe). In the former case, it is unclear if Vader's body actually vanishes, since Luke Skywalker is seen putting together a funeral for his suit, but it is assumed that the organic part of his body has disappeared. Many questions arose during The Phantom Menace, when Qui-Gon Jinn's body did not vanish after his duel with Darth Maul, and instead was burned on a Jedi funeral pyre. In Revenge of the Sith it is made known that "becoming one with the Force" is not in fact what happens to every Jedi, but only a recently discovered ability. Qui-Gon's spirit guided Yoda and Obi-Wan, and revealed to them the secret of retaining one's individuality after becoming one with the Force. Presumably, Darth Vader did not learn of this ability, which explains his surprise when Obi-Wan's body disappears when he is slain on the Death Star in Episode IV. It can also be observed that the only Force ghosts seen on screen died in the presence of Luke Skywalker. Although there is no indication of this, it can (humorously) be theorized that the Emperor wished Luke to strike him down in the end of Return of the Jedi so that he could die in Luke's presence and become a Force ghost himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonfire Posted September 20, 2006 Share Posted September 20, 2006 Which brings us to another question: At the end of ROTJ did the Emperor actually want to be killed knowing Lukes transition to the dark side was complete if that happened or would he just force lightning him again if he actually tried to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycaon Posted September 21, 2006 Share Posted September 21, 2006 Which brings us to another question: At the end of ROTJ did the Emperor actually want to be killed knowing Lukes transition to the dark side was complete if that happened or would he just force lightning him again if he actually tried to do it? My guess? Both. That way, Luke'd take those steps that lead to the dark side, and be taught that he was the Emperor's bitch at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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