Penn State scandal

[IceManML]

Listen, if I find out that my co-worker is raping kids, just telling our boss is not the appropriate response.

 

Y/N?

 

yea. read my previous.

 

I think this is appropriate.

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/14/12743438-artist-removes-joe-paternos-halo-from-penn-state-mural?lite

 

I don't think Joe Paterno was completely innocent. But I don't think these punishments will reverse time. Its absurd and pretty ridiculous.

[Panch]

These punishments make sure this type of thing never happen again.

[IceManML]

Yea ok. So what about Syracuse?

[Panch]

The accusations of that assistant basketball coach are just that, accusations. I'm not saying he didn't do it, but all this came out after the Penn State shit. Sometimes, in these situations, people will say anything to get a payday. Still Syracuse didn't fuck around and put the guy on administrative leave... indefinitely. No cover up there. Dude will rot if he's guilty.

[IceManML]

No cover up... This guy made his accusations in '05...

[Panch]

Ok, like Penn State they did an investigation, but unlike Penn State there were no witnesses. A dude at Penn State saw Jerry Sandusky FUCKING A LITTLE KID IN THE ASS.

 

At Syracuse, Bernie Fine was just accused by some ex-ball boy (heh) that he touched him in the 80s when he was a teen. An ex-ball boy, mind you, that had a questionable record. Without evidence, the school could do nothing. Syracuse stuck by Fine and he kept his job. After the whole Penn State shit popped off, the Syracuse guy's brother came out and said that, he too, was touched by Fine. Not wanting to have another Penn State on their hands, Syracuse got rid of him. No investigation, no nothing. These two stories are very different. If the guy did what these other guys claim then he will be punished.

 

What happened at Penn State is beyond foul. Sandusky raped an unknown amount of innocent children and, to PROTECT THE INNOCENT CHILDREN preserve their precious football program, they... covered. It. Up.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Panch

[The NZA]

it's so unfair though. the only way it'd be fair is if we suspend all the collegefootball programs, bro.

 

[IceManML]

Paterno is not an evil man. He's not trained to do his own investigation. If football is so important that its all they got then they should re-evaluate themselvs as an institution of higher learning.

 

Whats not being considered here is how thorough (or lack there of ) the previous investigation was. Jo Pa died at 85... 10 years ago; 75. This old ass man was a philosopher at this pt. People looked to him for a bit more than pronation improvement.

 

 

There was no warrant out for Jo Paterno nor was he being prosecuted. But he was still the fall guy because he was trusting. I mean is there audio or manuscript proof to demonize the hell out of this guy? It makes no sense how severe this punishment is. Why isnt the accused focused on that much?

 

Priesthoods; why arent they punished this severely? How come its only the NCAA handing out sanctions? It just doesnt make sense to me. Whatever happened to those kids; capitol punishment is being considered as it should. But it should happen to the accused. Their innocence was taken, but they were not murdered.

[Mr. Hakujin]

HERES THAT IMAGE AGAIN

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!111NZOWUXGCVJFGKJHKALKK

 

Now that I'm back from changing my undies, I really want to see Oldman as the Corinthian in a movie. Sandman, Constantine, Wonder Woman, whatever. Just, someone make this happen.

Edited July 26, 2012 by The NZA
IN CASE YOU DONE MISSED IT

[IceManML]

lol yea that freaked the hell outta me too

[Panch]

Joe Paterno knows right from wrong. Not raping kids? Right. Raping kids? WRONG! He was too old to restrain him himself so the most obvious course of action? Call the police. Period.

[IceManML]

I agree. Joe Paterno, however, did not rape anyone.

[Thelogan]

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!111NZOWUXGCVJFGKJHKALKK

 

Now that I'm back from changing my undies, I really want to see Oldman as the Corinthian in a movie.

 

Me too

[Panch]

No, just protected and enabled a rapist. /end conversation

[Thelogan]

Here's a fact: If Joe Paterno had called the police, less children would have been raped.

 

#justsayin

[Thelogan]

Y'know, they should have put that Joe Paterno statue in the library to remind all the kids to be quiet.

[IceManML]

How did he enable a rapist where are the facts?

 

What exactly DID he know? What did the FBI know already for 10 years? Where's the proof?

 

I see an argument for neglect but no enabling. Thanks.

 

After these assholes testifiedbefore a grand jury and the district attorney LET SANDUSKY GO in 98 this asshole asked for access to work out facilities for their children's program. Written letter of paterno DENYING HIM APPROVAL for this, post scumbag retirement.

 

I agree let's end it here.

Edited July 26, 2012 by IceManML

[The NZA]

nah, we ain't gotta though - it gets pretty damning around this part

 

In his Grand Jury testimony, Paterno stated that McQueary had described Sandusky "fondling" a young boy in an act he described of a "sexual nature," but stopped short of the graphic rape to which McQueary would later testify.

 

Former FBI director Louis Freeh, whose firm was hired by the Penn State Board of Trustees to conduct an independent investigation into the scandal, concluded, after interviewing over 400 people and reviewing over 3.5 million documents, that Paterno, Spanier, Curley and Schultz had concealed Sandusky's actions in order to protect publicity surrounding Penn State's vaunted football program. Freeh's investigation found that by their actions, the four men "failed to protect against a child sexual predator harming children for over a decade." The report concluded that Paterno, along with Schultz, Spanier and Curley "concealed Sandusky's activities from the Board of Trustees, the University community and authorities." Emails uncovered by Freeh’s investigation suggest that Paterno lied to the grand jury on at least two occasions: first, when testifying that he could not remember whether he heard a rumor but that he was unaware of any possible child abuse by Sandusky prior to the 2001 Lasch shower rape, and second, in claiming that he had only once spoken to Tim Curley about the 2001 incident.

 

Emails uncovered by Freeh's team showed Paterno had, in fact, closely followed an earlier 1998 investigation about possible child molestation by Sandusky. Furthermore, in 2001, despite Paterno's claims his sole discussion with Curley regarding Sandusky's assault in the Lasch showers was immediately following the incident, subsequent emails made clear he had discussed the matter further with Curley after that meeting, and furthermore implied he had pressured Curley (and Schultz and Spanier) not to report the rape to police. The report also revealed that several of Paterno's assistants had known Sandusky had been taking boys into locker room showers with him for some time prior to 1998, but failed to report anything.

 

In addition, the report said that even after Sandusky's retirement in 1999 Paterno, Schultz, Spanier and Curley "empowered Sandusky to attract potential victims to the campus and football events by allowing him to have continued, unrestricted and unsupervised access to the University's facilities and affiliation with the University's prominent football program."

 

i didn't really follow this story much either, but these are matters of public record at this point.

[IceManML]

From freeh garbage ..I mean freeh report:

 

Paterno told a reporter that “I didn’t know exactly how to handle it and I was afraid to do something that might jeopardize what the university procedure was. So I backed away and turned it over to some other people, people I thought would have a little more expertise than I did. It didn’t work out that

way.”

 

The avoidance of the consequences of bad publicity is the most significant, but not the only, cause for this failure to protect child victims and report to authorities. The investigation also revealed:

 A striking lack of empathy for child abuse victims by the most senior leaders of the University.

 A failure by the Board to exercise its oversight functions in 1998 and 2001 by not having regular reporting procedures or committee structures in place to ensure disclosure to the Board of major risks to the University.

 A failure by the Board to make reasonable inquiry in 2011 by not demanding details from Spanier and the General Counsel about the nature and direction of the grand jury investigation and the University’s response to the investigation.

 A President who discouraged discussion and dissent.

 A lack of awareness of child abuse issues, the Clery Act, and whistleblower

policies and protections.

 A decision by Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley to allow Sandusky to retire in 1999, not as a suspected child predator, but as a valued member of the Penn State football legacy, with future “visibility” at Penn State and ways “to continue to work with young people through Penn State,” essentially granting him license to bring boys to campus facilities for “grooming” as targets for his assaults. Sandusky retained unlimited access to University facilities until November 2011.

 A football program that did not fully participate in, or opted out, of some University programs, including Clery Act compliance. Like the rest of the University, the football program staff had not been trained in their Clery Act responsibilities and most had never heard of the Clery Act.

 A culture of reverence for the football program that is ingrained at all levels of the campus community.

 

My only pt here is that these children were failed by the university officials, the board, administration. Not "joe Paterno". Trying to destroy this mans reputation isn't even an effective punishment. Who's that a lesson to? The football players? The monster they let inside the university knew better. Their policies were skewed and clearly were incompetent handling the situation.

 

To punish Joe Paterno benefits no one at all. Not the victims, not their parents, not the university, not the NCAA, no one. It's moronic.

 

N trust.. I got that shit on iBooks day it released.

Edited July 26, 2012 by IceManML

[Reverend Jax]

On a non-rape/rapist-protection note, bravo to Nick and Logan for changing the text color of quoted text in his posts to red. Of course, Nick is the one in control of the skin of the subforum, so he could make it so this was a non-issue....just sayin'....

 

However, last minute he states that he did his job by letting the proper authorities know; his bosses. THEY ALL KNEW. Why the hell is it his job to go to the cops when theres an entire administration that already knows of the situation???

 

The fact that they all knew doesn't make them all equally innocent. It makes them all equally guilty.

 

Priesthoods; why arent they punished this severely? How come its only the NCAA handing out sanctions? It just doesnt make sense to me. Whatever happened to those kids; capitol punishment is being considered as it should. But it should happen to the accused. Their innocence was taken, but they were not murdered.

 

The NCAA doesn't have any authority over the Catholic clergy, but I wish they did, because then there would be more accountability in the Catholic clergy than there has ever been. I don't see how the Catholic Church's monumentally unjust immunity from accountability is an argument. "It's not fair! The Catholic Church gets to protect their rapists! Penn State only covered up one rapist!" The existence of injustice in the world is not an argument against organizations like the NCAA doing what is right in the circumstances where they have authority. Top down, the Catholic Church is an insulated hierarchy whose leaders, at worse, think there is nothing wrong with child rape, and at best, don't think child rape is so bad that it is worth doing damage to the Church's reputation in order to punish or prevent it. As long governments around the world continue to sit on their hands and practitioners continue to give money to the Catholic Church, children will continue to get raped by their clergy and will be protected in doing so. That speaks poorly of the Catholic Church and those world governments, not of the NCAA.

 

Institutions are not the only entities in the world where, when punishment is assigned, burdens and suffering are felt by innocent people. If a man rapes a child and is caught and goes to jail for x number of years, that is just and right (depending on whether you think x is too high or low), isn't it? But what if he was married? What if he had kids? What if he had parents that depended on him? What if he had a small business and employed people that depended on the wages he paid? What if his employees had families? What if he was tithing to his church? What if he was paying taxes? If he went to jail, his wife would have no husband to provide for her. His kids would grow up without a father in their lives. His parents might not be able to support themselves. His employees might not be able to find work. His employees' kids might not be able to afford to go to college. His church would have less money to feed the hungry. The government would lose the tax revenue his taxes would supply, and on top of all the tax revenue they'd lose from him not paying taxes, they'd lose more paying to jail him, so even if you are an unemployed vagrant with no family or friends, there is still collateral damage to innocent people when justice is exercised. It is the nature of any justice system. You're right, as far as we know, Penn State football players didn't rape anyone, but neither did the wife and kids of the rapist in my example, and do you really think a 40 year-old Penn State alum will suffer from the wiping out of those wins as much as a wife and kids suffer from a breadwinner going to jail?

 

I think Joe Paterno thought preventing that ongoing child rape was of less importance than maintaining his and Penn State's legacy and reputation, but even if that was not the case, the institution that protected its legacy and reputation above children from a rapist must be punished and a message must be sent, and that means innocent people are going to suffer consequences, and that is no more an excuse for them to not be punishEd than the suffering of a rapist's wife and children is a reason that said rapist should not go to jail.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Reverend Jax

[IceManML]

Agreed.

[The NZA]

source

 

Why did Corbett initially have only one agent on the case and later just two narcotics officers — as opposed to investigators who specialized in child-sex crimes — during most of the 22 months between the time the first allegation was turned over to his office and his ascension to the governor's mansion? And why did the probe gain steam only after his appointed successor, Attorney General Linda Kelly, took charge?

 

Did Corbett shortchange the Sandusky case because so many agents were assigned to the political-corruption probe called "Bonusgate," which became his main selling point in the gubernatorial election? Did he fear the political ramifications of charging Sandusky and tarnishing the reputation of legendary Penn State coach Joe Paterno, given the popularity of Penn State football across the state? And was he swayed by the fact that some members of the board of Sandusky's charity, the Second Mile, were campaign donors?

 

What's more, critics have questioned why the Corbett administration went ahead with a $3 million grant for the Second Mile after he became governor, given that he was aware of the serious allegations against the former Penn State defensive coordinator. Corbett has argued that withholding the money would have tipped off the probe's targets.

 

Feds now investigating Sandusky Pedophile Ring

[Panch]

Yeah, this is turning out to be the worst thing that's ever happened... ever. Penn State and Joe Paterno lovers need to just shut up and take the L on this.

[Iambaytor]

I think they just need to demolish the school and salt the earth where it once lay.

[IceManML]

Yeah, this is turning out to be the worst thing that's ever happened... ever. Penn State and Joe Paterno lovers need to just shut up and take the L on this.

 

Not gonna happen.