alive she cried Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 there are no serious critics out there denying the value of the avante garde in music, film, or any other art. That debate is over. You can go ahead and believe that the entire world of art and criticism is full of nothing but ivory tower snobs hell bent on making the world feel stupid, putting words in mouth, not something i like i never once stated the entire world of art and criticism are snobs, i also never said i did'nt like avant-garde music, film and art i don't see how duchamp and noise are entire genres To not enjoy this stuff is one thing, but to completely trash it, and consider it completely devoid of worth and take some weird kind of offense to it's very existence does not reflect well on anybody. i take offense to this rubbish because it is an insult to real music, it's a spit in the face of beethoven and hendrix And if only delusional retards with Phds appreciate Marcel Duchamp, I'm quite sorry, but you've just called just about everyone with a Phd in an art or humanity a delusional retard. you clearly have'nt talked to many art professors, have you? Again, you can go ahead and think that everyone who takes art seriously is a snob, again with the putting words in my mouth. i take art very seriously, this is part of the reason i hate duchamp so much you see i am an artist and to see this talentless piece of shit become world famous and have his work displayed in a museum is disgusting and you, who saw clips of something you have a vague understanding of, are right; or you can be a bit more open minded and admit that there's some worth to this stuff and you're just personally not interested in delving into it. ross if you ever hear me say that i can hear anything of worth in noise then please kill me It ain't my thing, but trying to change people's likes and dislikes is retarded, even more so considering we're on the internet. not trying to change what these guys like, they're entitled to like what they want and i've nothing against them for liking it but we are on a discussion forum, we are hear to discuss topics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 ross if you ever hear me say that i can hear anything of worth in noise then please kill me Will do!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alive she cried Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 thanks man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 we're being DISCRIMINATED against cause we like noise music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldron Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 we're being DISCRIMINATED against cause we like noise music I'm sure it had nothing to do with you saying "fuck you" to people who didn't like it and insisting that people who didn't like it would have their minds completely changed about it within a week. It's not like blatant statements that void another's opinion piss them off, or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 chill i was kidding so wait don't you guys even like sonic youth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldron Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 so wait don't you guys even like sonic youth? Tch, making me look shit up in the middle of a bittorrent download. You know how much of a bitch youtube is during bittorrents? ... Probably. Sonic Youth seems fine. It seems to be on that side of the line that just borders on pure noise where there's a clear melody to follow and an intention behind the disruptions. I find exception with the stuff on the other side of the line - the percussionist using his hands to spread the stacked cymbals, something he has no fine control over and doesn't contribute anything coherent, that asian guy who was flailing around the stage... that's the stuff I can't get into. Quick edit: I can't get into it as music. I can get it more as performance art, still isn't my speed mind you, but as music I can't find much to get into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted June 8, 2008 Author Share Posted June 8, 2008 hey guys i made an album farting down the mic am i an artist yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted June 8, 2008 Share Posted June 8, 2008 i like sonic youth a lot, and also by the same token, MBV, mostly because the former were alternative rock primarily, and the latter were mostly shoegaze. Not noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 sonic youth - daydream nation. best album of the 80s? my bloody valentine - loveless. best album of the 90s? nice one doj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I wouldn't agree with that, but i'm not going to argue with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted June 9, 2008 Author Share Posted June 9, 2008 i wonder how long it would take or how open-minded someone would have to be to appreciate noise music/for noise music to have that aforementioned affect on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted June 9, 2008 Share Posted June 9, 2008 I'm very open minded musically, i get that its noise, its hard not to. I just don't ever envisage myself liking this. Much like i don't ever envisage myself liking modern art. I hold the two in a very similar bane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 so if art's not done by someone who's dead, its not good? that's depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alive she cried Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 so if art's not done by someone who's dead, its not good? that's depressing. i think by "modern art" he means abstract art and the like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 noise is a bit like "modern art"/expressionism... you either get it, or you don't. and if you don't, you hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldron Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 noise is a bit like "modern art"/expressionism... you either get it, or you don't. and if you don't, you hate it. I don't LIKE it. Different things. Idiot. I'm slowly losing any respect I had for your appreciation every single time you try to make yourself out as a martyr from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 wow - and i'm the culprit for the aggravation and drama around hondos? seems like a lot of you are already carrying a lot of shit ease up. i would suggest that if you do not like noise or do not wish to discuss it you don't post in the thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 ease up. i would suggest that if you do not like noise or do not wish to discuss it you don't post in the thread You should take your own advice, much like the sigur rós comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldron Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 wow - and i'm the culprit for the aggravation and drama around hondos? seems like a lot of you are already carrying a lot of shit ease up. i would suggest that if you do not like noise or do not wish to discuss it you don't post in the thread You're putting words in my mouth and making it sound like I hate it, which I don't. I'm slowly starting to hate you as a result of you acting like other people have problems after you start something and they come back at you for it, but that didn't start until just recently. Your stance is off-putting. A thousand pardons for calling you on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 yeah wikid awesome yeahhhhhh fuck u if i dont like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunkerSeed Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Uh... sometimes the conversations here get interesting and I almost forget it's still an internet message board..... Anyways... yes, I think a key factor in this is that I appreciate modern art, and I think it's a bit closed minded to say that modern art as a whole idea, is devoid of worth. Yes, the whole idea of it is that it addresses it's own form and makes the viewer/listener aware of the process by which it was made, and a lot of it is almost purely conceptual. I think a lot of this kind of thinking very valuable post industrial revolution, where the process of creating things is completely disconnected from human beings, there's so much shit being created that it seems like nothing has a reason for being there, etc etc. A lot of how the modern world works makes it necessary for me to have art/music that makes me wonder "what is it?" "how is it?" and "why is it?" And again, this shit has been around long enough, so some people do it well, others don't and many of them go about these ideas VERY differently. This doesn't mean I liked every crappy piece of art at FIU that was a shopping bag full of cement on a table (actual piece I saw) or anything like that. Also, I don't like how my end of this has not only been all about Duchamp, but all about his readymades (although I do appreciate his readymades). That's not the only shit the guy's done, and I refer to him more because of his writing and theory. Noise music couldn't be any more different form one of Duchamp's readymades (ie, urinal in a gallery) Merzbow did not find a laptop making a weird noise and just plug it in for us, the motherfucker painstakingly manipulated and in many cases modified really complicated gear to produce a very specific sound. That sound, happens to be abstact, abrasive, and non-melodic. None of the artists presented are using any kind of "found sound" or anything like that. It's more akin to Pollack than to Duchamp. Anyways, I'd also like to point out I obviously have no problem with mainstream music or classical art. I am not talking about excluding anything, only including a way of thinking that I think is valuable in this day and age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorelei Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 yeah, you're spot on. noise does that, it pushes the boundaries of the norm, just like free jazz did, and all avant garde art does. btw Merzbow uses magnetic tapes, homemade guitars, synthesizers, effect pedals, percussion, and his laptop. he's only used computer technology post 2000 there's a good article about noise here that's really interesting. noise is also great for when you're sick of the formulas in other forms of music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahve Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Sonic Youth is classic, I was able to enjoy that. atm my tolerance level is about 4 minutes, after that it's just too much and ceases to be enjoyable. It's kinda neat to see how old folks feel about rock. It was "noise" to them at that time too hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alive she cried Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 i wonder how long it would take or how open-minded someone would have to be to appreciate noise music/for noise music to have that aforementioned affect on them noise is a bit like "modern art"/expressionism... you either get it, or you don't. and if you don't, you hate it. I don't LIKE it. Different things. Idiot. I'm slowly losing any respect I had for your appreciation every single time you try to make yourself out as a martyr from this. i can see where maldrons coming from here lor *snickers* (lor, data...? nevermind) it's not that we don't get it, we do we just don't see any worth in it. big difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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