What is a hardcore gamer?

[Reverend Jax]

Before voting, to be fair, allow Nick to counter my argument.

 

So, last night I met up with Nick, Curtins, George (bishop) and John (spacecowboy) at Tobacco Road and drinking and eating and talking occurred. As the conversation went from whether or not your girlfriend disliking Fight Club would be a dealbreaker, to a comparing and contrasting of Emmanuel Kant and John Stuart Mill, to how Guinness on tap tastes different in Miami than it does in San Francisco, at one point we were talking video games. Nick mentioned that he was disseminated as a Nintendo fanboy from way back that the big N wasn't using their massive financial success with the Wii and DS to invest into marketing to hardcore gamers. I made the argument that it's kind of a waste of money to market to hardcore gamers, because hardcore gamers are tapped into the gamer world and read reviews and hear about games from publications (this includes online publications) and will hear about good games and will not be compelled to buy well marketed games that are poorly received by critics. He argued that not all hardcore gamers were plugged into the culture. It seemed to me that at this point we were disagreed on our definitions. Here is what he and I argued.

 

Nick believes a hardcore gamer is any gamer that plays hardcore games, which he defines as more complex and challenging than casual games. He agreed that games like Halo, Call of Duty, Madden, Gears of War, Bioshock, Mass Effect, etc, qualify. So if you play games like Nintendogs, Guitar Hero, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Puzzle Fighter, Big Brain Academy, etc, you are a casual gamer. If you play Call of Duty, Halo and Madden with your frat brothers, you are a hardcore gamer.

 

I believe being a hardcore gamer is about being part of the gamer culture. I'm talking about knowing what month E3 is held every year, knowing about decision being made and Microsoft and Sony regarding developers and exclusivity, I'm talking about following gaming news and knowing about what big game are coming down the road next month, what the big holiday releases will be in June. If the first time you hear about a game if when you see a commercial for it during an NFL game or a print ad in Maxim, you are not a hardcore gamer. That's why I was arguing that it's not worth it to Nintendo in invest in marketing to hardcore gamers in TV and print, because a hardcore gamers does his homework.

 

What do you think?

[Iambaytor]

I was always under the impression that a hardcore gamer was someone who played games a lot, who was willing to try new things, play new systems, all in search of that one perfect game that's everything they ever hoped for and enjoying the journey as they go. I never thought it had anything to do with the game, the genre, or how "in touch" said gamer was so long as they played a large amount of time (I.E. all their free time and some of their less-than-free time)

[Lycaon]

I gotta go with Iambaytor on this.

[Spycer]

I gotta go with Iambaytor on this.

 

Me too. I could see both sides of the argument being things that would describe MOST 'hardcore' gamers, but there are an awful lot of gamers who don't read all the reviews on everything all the time, and an awful lot who don't play games like those you mentioned.

[Jables]

There's nothing hardcore about playing Halo, Bioshock etc if you're buying what's marketed to you. I have a friend who plays these games at my behest and he's by no means hardcore, or barely what I'd call a gamer. It suprises me that the Nintendo fanboy has such a skewed perspective on what contstitutes a gamer here.

[HypnotizinChikns]

wait. so by Nick's way of thought, i am a hardcore gamer. one, I only play games like COD, Bioshock, Gears of War, Fallout3 and the likes. I also (under my husband's profile) get to play exclusives such as beta tests and whatnot.

 

You'd totally kick my ass at Mario Kart though.

 

*confused*

 

I also only play on weekends (sometimes after i get out of work I'll pop in some zombie COD or Rock Band) and average about 5 hours total time of playing. i usually invite co-workers along just to bust some balls.

 

I have no idea wtf is going on with E3 nor do i give a rats ass, if it's important, I hear about it via word of mouth, or get invited to play it before it comes out.

 

So besides agreeing with baytor, I'm going with Jax on this one. only becuase I do not consider myself 'hardcore', but i do tend to play the more popular adult based games that are geared towards strategy, and wether or not it looks awesome on HD. ;)

 

I also hate CP games, unless it's the sims, becuase they are fun to kill. Wii is fun. for about five minutes.

[Thelogan]

I think Bator's statement works well added to the definition Jax gave. If you're spending a lot of time playing games and searching for that great game, you would most likely be in touch with the industry, quickest way to get your "fix". It's like comic books, you read enough comics and you naturally start to recognize art styles and names, and then you start to base purchases on them.

Jax's needs what Bator added to be true, imo.

Nick's definition is too subjective, Halo and L4D could be casual to some, especially if they have an affinity for things that require hand-eye coordination.

[Maldron]

I'd think it'd have a lot to do with whether you do gaming for recreation, or if you did it as a serious hobby. You can play Nintendogs for four hours a week to wind down, or you could have all five copies of the game and be running a pound. One's definitely a more casual approach, while the other's pretty hardcore.

 

And SSB is serious business, for realzies. Though I suppose on the other side of the coin, it doesn't have to be.

 

My (brand new) signature kinda puts me on the side it's going to put me on, but I definitely think baytor's right in this - it's really not what you play.

[Lycaon]

I definitely think baytor's right in this - it's really not what you play.

Unless all you play is Halo and Madden. Then you are most likely a drunken frat boy not a gamer.

[The NZA]

ugh. as usual, jax doesnt listen.

 

there's 2 points here: one is being a hardcore gamer vs casual, the other is playing hardcore titles vs casual ones. mind you, the latter terms really came into the forefront this gen so its skewed by marketing execs.

 

to marketing people: yes, buying/playing the in-season FPS makes you hardcore, because youre playing a hardcore title. if you're going to use the arbitrary definition, you kinda have to accept a piece of this, cause its marketing/PR people that're using that bit.

 

now, its far easier for me to say: hardcore games have more to do with scope, some would say challenge, technical intricacy (HD, joystick etc - dont even get the PC kids started on where the real hardcore are), and the like. By this definition, we can vaguely separate the obvious tetris, bejeweled, sims, katamari etc from metal gear, god of war, orange box etc. it gets interesting when you realize that a great deal of our 8-bit games were casual by said parameters; much of the challenge, some argue, comes from poor level design. anyway, ive no hard time with the arbitrary line between hardcore and casual titles, there's not many games ive seen that cause me to question this.

 

gamers, on the other hand, it gets tricky. jax's definition of being part of the culture/reading web and magazine shit, even now, that's a growing niche but a niche nonetheless - there's lots of people id consider hardcore gamers that dont necessarily read mags, and didnt play No More Heroes on their dusty Wii cause theyd never heard of it, and Nintendo's not gonna give a demo, much less an ad.

id go more with what some said here about hours you put in, but then, to some extent? yes, my definition would include what you play as well. if you spend 8 hours a day playing solitaire or plants vs zombies to kill time at the office, but nothing past that, you're casual. to me, if you only play fucking WoW? i dont care how much you/your clan raids: welcome to casualville. if you only BOOM HEADSHOT in COD4, halo, gears etc but nothing past that - again, the kinda shit you found out about from ads in maxim - yeah, you're casual, despite playing hardcore titles. if you play a swath of games (where you can), even within your 1 or 2 genres, i think its more hardcore...its easy enough if you have more than one console at home that gets played.

of course, every definition here's gonna be mad subjective: frankly, if you didnt play (and ideally, finish) MGS3, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Okami etc last gen? yeah, so uh...how was Wii Play, anyway?

 

ps if you only play games which feature achievements/trophies, sorry, you are not a gamer either.

[Reverend Jax]

ugh. as usual, jax doesnt listen.

 

Why would I listen to you at lounge where Bebop is playing? Take me to one of your Cool lounges and I'll be hanging on every word you say.

[Reverend Jax]

So Nick, I suspect that you, like me, have found Scribblenauts surprisingly challenging pretty early on in the game. Would you call Scribblenauts a hardcore game?

[Benz]

Baytor's definition seems best to me. I used to be an OMG ULTRA MEGA BBQ HARDCORE GAMER when I was playing WoW 80+ hours a week. Now I'm just casual playing about 10 hours a week, maybe 15. It's all about the time investment.

[The NZA]

jax - in its scope (and the fact its pretty obscure, have you seen any marketing for it?) id say its a core title, moreso than most application titles like wii sports etc.

 

again, i try to stay away from these labels, as its a marketing term and most of us dont even agree when we say them. in this thread alone, several people went "im with baytor" (a strange phrase) and then gave different definitions than him.

for example: spending your life playing farmville WoW only does not make one a hardcore gamer in my book.

 

hell, this month, there's Uncharted 2, Brutal Legend and a few others, and im still most excited about Katamari Forever, a game that by almost anyone's definition is casual as fuck, but i dont see that as a negative connotation.

[Visitant]

I've heard this argument come up a lot lately and here's my couple 'o pennies on it:

 

I could not tell you what makes up a hardcore gamer personally. If the titles are a necessary evil in this world right now then I'd like to think I'm pretty hardcore, fuck man I own a space invaders arcade machine. When it really comes down to it I think the argument in general is like trying to be the smartest kid on the short bus. I was a kid who was picked on because I talked Nintendo all the in elementary school. I was the kid who saw the Wizard just to I could get that sneak peek at Mario Brothers 3 and when I was learning to draw, i'd draw Mortal Kombat characters. (Cammy from SF2 was the first woman I ever tried to draw without clothes!) In short, I was and AM a huge fucking nerd.

 

I've always been amused by this AM I HARDCORE?! argument because all people are wanting to do with it is make another title for groups of gamers so they can troll them on boards and make fun of them for the games they play. So what if you play madden and halo, (ok I might pick on you a little because of that) but at least you're taking an interest in my hobby in some form. In short I can't tell you what makes a hardcore gamer any different than a softcore player because I think it's not necessary to have those titles. I say kick back grab a beer and if you wanna play some Halo with me, awesome. What matters isn't if you're hardcore or not, it's if you're a fucking noob who irritates the fuck out of me while I play.

 

I was going somewhere with this, but I think I derailed.