XBONE

[The NZA]

1) really not seeing anything solid on that $100 extra price quote

 

2) you guys still aren't getting it; BC is BC. for proper BC, you have the hardware on board - this is either present, or it isn't. the whole "i get the hurdles for disc-based, but why not digital?!" makes zero sense. they're not equally difficult to implement, they're the same thing. a lack for one is a lack of the other.

 

now, what you might be referring to is software-based BC, which takes work (see the 360's early efforts for xbox), so i don't expect it, or at least anything beyond the most popular titles, and even then only during year 1 or so of a new cycle. now what Yoshida talked about prior - the notion that gakai could create a sort've netflix-like system with PSN titles at some point - that's kinda cool, but i'd put smart money that it'd be behind a paywall, PS+ if nothing else. so yeah, when he talks about PS4 playing PS1 & 2 games, i don't really care for the most part, as he's almost certainly referring to stuff you re-buy on PSN, not discs i currently have (though in this instance, possibly digital ones you guys have bought/got with PS+ but obviously there's nothing concrete here).

 

realistically, that's it. there's no real BC to speak of. is it possible the biggest sellers of PSN this last gen will get software emulation, for free? sure, sony does nice stuff sometimes - but i don't think they bought a cloud service to not monetize it, so i'm not holding out for this, and frankly if it's not hardware BC you're not guaranteed the same experience you had (glitches, etc - i.e. you can play Jet Set Radio Future on 360 but it plays like ass).

 

TL;DR there is no real distinction between disc BC and the PSN/XBLA libraries you guys invested in, as far as proper BC goes. i personally think you guys will be far from the last consumers to be pissed at your purchases not migrating, and as a fan/proponent of BC i personally look forward to both companies feeling a bit've the sting from their decisions - DD is all about trust, and neither of them did much to earn that here.

[Reverend Jax]

 

 

Good work there, Doj.

[Thrizzle]

2) you guys still aren't getting it; BC is BC.

 

Oh, I get it. Drink that koolaid.

 

What I know is, barring some mind blowing reveal, I'm out. I've yet to be sold on a Wuu either.

 

RIP Logan's Game Console Love

1988-2013

[The NZA]

when you keep them short like that, they're not as good for dramatic readings man

 

i mean cmon at least elaborate about that easy patch digital games require to work on new architecture, i was ready to learn something there

[Keth]

Id say at least hold out til E3. Let the prices drop and see what happens.

[Maldron]

I suspect a correlation to dropped panties.

[Thrizzle]

Nah. Unless fan backlash makes them change something, I'm firmly disinterested. If I get one, it'll be as a media hub. I'm not buying digital content on consoles anymore, and that's the bulk of console gaming I've been interested in for the last 4 years or so.

 

mean cmon at least elaborate about that easy patch digital games require to work on new architecture, i was ready to learn something there

 

The fuck I know about technology? For that matter, the fuck YOU know about it? You trust these internet people to know wtf they're talking about?

 

Here's what I know: I popped in the Carmageddon 2 disc a few months ago, downloaded a patch, and it worked with Vista. Do with that what you will. Architecture smarchitecture. So the Vita has a PS3 AND a PS4 in it? Blow me, that's nonsense.

Fact is, they could give you these tiny download games without making a big stink about it, but they don't wanna.

[Keth]

Probably a big fat NO, but at least here there is a possibility.

 

When asked if the aforementioned "cloud services" could work with your existing PSN library, recognizing your previous purchases and making those experiences available on the otherwise-incompatible PS4, Yoshida said, "We could do so if we choose to. We know who purchased what as a record. But we are working on service plans and we haven't decided."

 

It's still not a definitive thing.

[Thrizzle]

We could do so if we choose to

 

That's the crux. At least they admit it.

 

They do that, WITHOUT putting it behind a paywall, I'll flip my stance and go PS4 fanboy all the way. I'll even excuse a PS+ membership. Anything else is a deal breaker.

 

I WANT to buy games, I don't know why they want to get me not to so badly.

[Keth]

Man PS+ is a damn good deal though.

 

 

At least right now it is...

[Maldron]

 

Here's what I know: I popped in the Carmageddon 2 disc a few months ago, downloaded a patch, and it worked with Vista. Do with that what you will. Architecture smarchitecture. So the Vita has a PS3 AND a PS4 in it? Blow me, that's nonsense.

Fact is, they could give you these tiny download games without making a big stink about it, but they don't wanna.

 

That Patch is the issue. The patch is the work either of fans of the game on their free time or the creators of the game who got on on their own and did it either for love of the craft or because they were paid to do so. The way i understand it, every game would have to be patched to work with the new architecture, which is grossly cost-inefficient especially considering companies have to pay console manufacturers for every patch they roll out, or the old architecture has to be emulated universally, which can be imperfect at best considering the way some emulators i was using for the PC couldn't run a select number of SNES games properly.

 

The cloud allowing for background emulation of titles is probably the smartest choice. The smartest choice for sony is to provide it as they go with no charge for those who have already paid for it on the previous generation, in doing so they open themselves up to tremendous goodwill with the consumer. Crossbones not having a similar service would force it to one of the unwieldy options, which i doubt they're gonna do.

[Thrizzle]

considering companies have to pay console manufacturers for every patch they roll out

 

That's a decision too. It's only cost inefficient because they decided to make it that way.

[Maldron]

 

Gotta love Gaf.

 

Gotta hate Activision.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Maldron

[Visitant]

Why would companies want BC? As Sony and Square have proven, if you put it in digital form and put it on the marketplace people WILL rebuy that shit. You don't want your back catalogue floating around for people to just...PLAY

 

Game licences are the way the future is going. No one likes it, but blame Gamestop for not giving a kickback to publishers as to why we are here now.

[the division of joy]

Good work there, Doj.

Genuinely didn't see it. Wouldn't have posted it otherwise.

[Maldron]

You could've just quoted and let your sig do the talking.

 

Part of me wants to edit your post so that's what happened.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Maldron

[The NZA]

okay, im not really busting logans' balls here...he's super pissed about BC not being a priority, so while we disagree about the tech, i obviously agree with his sentiment.

 

for posterity: mal used the right word - the patchy software emulation some of you guys seem to want (i don't), it's emulation. in some cases you're basically writing an emulator for each game, and pretty much none of that is 100% accurate, for all the unpaid effort involved.

 

oh yeah, the Vita playing ps3 & 4 games is confusing at first too, it only makes more sense when you realize you're just streaming from the respective console itself. i still don't know how effective that's gonna be.

 

Game licences are the way the future is going. No one likes it, but blame Gamestop for not giving a kickback to publishers as to why we are here now.

 

sorry bindy, but i very much have to disagree with the bolded...it's a tired argument that's kicked out as a scapegoat (right after piracy) when publishers' unrealistic sales expectations aren't met. here's why i don't buy it:

 

1) Gamestop is not a villain to the industry; it's one of their biggest outlets. Millions of dollars go into in-store ads, exclusive DLC, etc

 

now from that you might say yeah yeah but they're dicks, cause in your words, they didn't kick back on used games, the core of their business model. but let's use a hypothetical:

 

2) Grand Theft Auto 5 comes out today for $60, GS sells it used for what, $55? why do you think that is, when they could cut the knees right out from under pubs and sell it for say $40 or less? it's all profit to them, and it'd cannibalize the important first few weeks of sales (in the case of many games, their only real window)? because for all the talk we here, the nature of the relationship between them & developers is not antagonistic.

 

if it was, why would Xbox be including them in reselling codes/keys, when its obviously better for MS to do so with no middleman? personally, i think GS is a huge plus for this industry, and whenever we do go all digital, buyer's remorse & people's inability to get money back on dead properties for purchasing new ones is gonna be felt tremendously, and there won't be an evil swap shop to kick around when games bomb.

[Newtype]

[Visitant]

Oh I totally get where you're coming from NZA on the Gamestop argument, the fact is they have done a lot of good for the industry as a whole. And hey, capitalism works yo.

 

Its hard to not see it from the developers side though when you've sat through panel after panel of developers talking about how to best make money on their games because they believe the resell market is killing them. That being said, maybe they are the ones being greedy. I mean they are basically asking to be paid twice for a once physically shipped product.

 

It just seems that certain people in the industry want the used game to go the way of the vhs .

[The NZA]

yeah, you're right, i'm sure that's true from their perspective...gotta be a nightmare in japan, too.

 

i love devs, i just get thrown off when the solution they arrive at burdens me as a consumer of their product...if MS resells keys, it'll help them no doubt, but i still think an open platform with steam-like sales would do way more for them and us too, you know?

[Visitant]

I love devs too, but I love you more.

 

Open platform does work well, steam is a fine example. Thats why they are so happy to put their games on sale weeks sometimes after its sales have tapered off. More goes to them, and steam sales do drive revenue. Eidos STILL advertises everytime Deus EX goes up for 5 bucks. They get big numbers off those.

[C_U_SPACECOWBOY]

oh yeah, the Vita playing ps3 & 4 games is confusing at first too, it only makes more sense when you realize you're just streaming from the respective console itself. i still don't know how effective that's gonna be.

 

When I brought up the Vita sharing content with PS4, I wasn't refering to thier magical claims of the Vita streaming content off the PS4 (I'll believe it when I see it), I was talking about eventual cross-buy/cross-play network titles that will run identical on both systems. The digital marketplaces of the current gen have enabled a great number of companies to produce games at a fraction of the budget of even bottom tier retail releases. Many of these games aren't developed with a particular platform in mind, and most only use a fraction of the resources of the current gen systems. Many could probably run on the last gen's consoles, or even the previous gen. Some network titles could probably run on my microwave.

 

When I play Guacamelee on PS3, I can save, upload my game, and pick up where I left off on the Vita. And not a gimped version either. It's the same game and in runs on both systems. Mark my words, years after the PS4 is out, there are going to be cross-play/cross-buy network titles that will run identically on both systems (Vita and PS4). This means that the hypothetical title could also run for PS3 equally well. Are titles like this going to be available for PS3? Will Sony continue to support digital content for PS3 even after PS4 is released, this remains to be seen and there is no precident we can look towards, but it makes the PSN/XBLA BC issue seem like an artifical and contrived boundary.

Edited May 23, 2013 by C_U_SPACECOWBOY

[Maldron]

Joystiq had an article the other day where they asked developers what digital platform they liked best. The surprising result was that many said that the burst sale prices on steam and the slow steady sales on places like psn and xblive even out to remarkably similar dollars earned.

 

 

edit:

you REALLY think that because guacamelee plays/looks the same, that the programming for both systems are the same?

Edited May 23, 2013 by Maldron

[Visitant]

While the physical architecture is obviously different, the programming languages they use are pretty similar because it is made exclusively for the PS OS. Now something like Call of Duty is different because they are making the same game run on two separate operating systems that may handle things like processing power differently in terms of resource allocation so the code for that is very different.

 

Also Guacamelee is a fancy flash game. It's not like you're trying to move Demon Souls over. (although, id play they hell out of that)

[C_U_SPACECOWBOY]

edit:

you REALLY think that because guacamelee plays/looks the same, that the programming for both systems are the same?

 

I never said that. It runs on both systems. And I only paid for it once.