XBONE

[gunsmithx]

I never said that. It runs on both systems. And I only paid for it once.

 

I think Sony will continue Cross play going forward the problem with pass titles is that you have to go back and reprogram them and that's a non trivial thing and who's going to do it? I'd be very surprised is anything ps3 past now. is only playable on ps3 at this point. There's also been alot of rumors that Last of us and Beyond will both have ps4 ports at some point and we basically know this to be true for gt6(though it will be some kind of ultimate edition in 2014).

 

The problem is that the for the consumer it all looks the same, well even if some the psn games could run on your toaster they still have to be reprogrammed to do so and again, it isn't always worth it for the dev to go back and do it even if they have the time to do so(and thats often not the case for smaller teams.) Personally I think between Gaikai and the change to off the shelf hardware this will the last time that BC will be an issue.

 

Also on a similar note wtf microsoft for using a new port for headphones that won't work with old ones you already own... sigh.

[C_U_SPACECOWBOY]

you guys still aren't getting it; BC is BC. for proper BC, you have the hardware on board - this is either present, or it isn't. the whole "i get the hurdles for disc-based, but why not digital?!" makes zero sense. they're not equally difficult to implement, they're the same thing. a lack for one is a lack of the other.

 

The problem is that the for the consumer it all looks the same, well even if some the psn games could run on your toaster they still have to be reprogrammed to do so and again, it isn't always worth it for the dev to go back and do it even if they have the time to do so(and thats often not the case for smaller teams.)

 

Look there is a major difference between disc based BC and digital BC. Retail games have a physical print run and a limited retail lifespan. Those initial sales are all MS and Sony care about. Implementing BC for retail games makes them no money and feeds the second hand market, so it's obviously not worth the investment. The games in the PSN and XBLA libraries on the other hand are persistent. It took a looooong time for PSN and XBLA to get going and amass a quailty library of titles, and they're are basically going to start from scratch again? There's going to be a whole generation of kids for whom the PS4 or Xbox One is thier first system, what are they going to do in the early years of the next gen consoles, when releases are sparse and the new marketplaces are barren? What about all of us who end up adopting early? What's going to happen when our systems are just sitting there and we are clamoring for something to play on it?

 

You: 'Man, I love my bright shiny Xbox 1 and/or amorphous PS4...too bad there aren't that many games on it yet....(browses marketplace)....You know, I always heard such great things about Bastion......I might as well give it a try....bought.'

 

Castle Crashers made almost 5 million dollars on Xbox live alone in the 2011 calendar year. Thats TWO years after it was released. Granted, Castle Crashers is one of the most successful games on XBLA, but how many retail games today have that kind of longevity? Scuttling the established PSN and XBLA libraries is just throwing money away.

Edited May 23, 2013 by C_U_SPACECOWBOY

[The NZA]

Also on a similar note wtf microsoft for using a new port for headphones that won't work with old ones you already own... sigh.

 

hadn't heard that...damn, not surprising though

 

Look there is a major difference between disc based BC and digital BC.

 

no, there really isn't- but you just got done explaining the sales difference between the two, so i'm not really sure where you're going with this.

[C_U_SPACECOWBOY]

no, there really isn't- but you just got done explaining the sales difference between the two, so i'm not really sure where you're going with this.

 

There's no money in disc based BC, there's money to be made with digital BC. That's a major difference from the standpoint of MS and Sony.

[The NZA]

right, but

 

a) it's money they've already made (unless they wanna re-release stuff on the new format a la the WU, haha)

b) it changes nothing about true/hardware BC. if you're arguing that it makes the effort behind software BC/emulators more likely: sure, but only for the most popular stuff (again i always think of MS' efforts for OG Xbox games on 360, cause that's what we're talking about here), and even then you gotta wonder which companies would rather just re-release stuff and try to add something, however small.

 

yoshida's gakai answer - streaming from the cloud, which uses either actual PS3 bits or the like - again i could see that working, but honestly, only behind a paywall.

[Keth]

<br /><a href="http://www.theonion.com/video/xbox-one-capable-of-controlling-users-with-simple,32569/" target="_blank" title="Xbox One Capable Of Controlling Users With Simple Voice Commands">Xbox One Capable Of Controlling Users With Simple Voice Commands</a>

[Newtype]

[The NZA]

 

in the same week that MS acknowledged the bad press (which they somewhat seemed to blame on media presentation/spin, which is funny given that they had an opportunity to control the dialogue during their reveal, and much of the negative focus is on what wasn't discussed there), Don Mattrick & others have made comments about "if you're backwards compatible, you're moving backwards" (again, excellent response to the digital ecosystem you've built well for years now) and making light of the online requirement ("20 minutes or 2 hours, does it matter?" - paraphrasing), while continually pointing at the need for cloud connection to "aid game experience", another line i find poorly-timed after the recent SimCity fiasco.

 

again, i don't think the bitching is as much about the TV/media center focus & lack of games; we know there's 8 new IP's coming at E3, 5-6 of which i believe are currently known. but i'm still in quiet awe of how they've let things go on around them - i know they're sounding like nintendo recently by claiming they're now more competing with apple & google etc, but they took an entire month after sony's reveal to not address/defuse the bigger problems before the official E3 debut, which will be done earlier in the day, allowing sony the last word.

 

this is the same company that rushed the 360 out the door & took great strides to capitalize on that time before the PS3 dropped, and looking back, even after the billions bled out for RROD fixing, it paid off in spades, in terms of market/mindshare...i really don't get these recent moves at all, much less their seeming surprise at the backlash. I know Iwata's not everyone's favorite CEO right now, but if they can't drop some bombs in a few weeks, i have a hard time not seeing Balmer fall on his sword here.

 

then again, who knows; maybe i'tll drop before black friday, sell gangbusters & this will be another giant enemy crab moment that everyone forgets about.

[Maldron]

Giant enemy crab wasn't forgotten.

 

One mirrion troops; that was forgotten.

[The NZA]

it was forgotten like RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDGE RACER, it's a meme/tired joke but it's not a line used as a dismissal of the company/product like it was in '06/07. EXTREEEEEME ONE MIRRON TROOPS is still relevant cause that still symbolizes Konami's level of incompetence.

 

"get a 2nd job" would make a huge comeback if we somehow got a $599 PS4 and you know it.

[spiffytee]

I think they are moving towards the future of gaming and trying to make the gaming world more like nintendo, towards a more casual type. I know yall are going to hate but more and more people are getting high speed internet access, the gaming industry is shrinking compared to tv, movies and music. Gamestop is killing people with -5 less for used, new releases. I would rather pay that used game fee and have it go to the actual gaming peoples than gamestop. It's a lot like boarders and barnes and noble vs amazon. We'll have to see the prices for the final determination and how much you'd get actually selling your game though.

 

This is the wave of the future. If it fails, they could always go back to having it on disc since it does have a disc drive. So chill out people...

 

I think what they are doing is taking the plunge and looking forward, based on how technology is always moving forward and how media is being delivered.

[Maldron]

Gamestop ain't killing nobody but mom&pops (infrequently). Within a month most new releases are discounted between ten and thirty dollars brand new before they bounce back up, and for every used sold we sell 4-5 new because "It's just five dollars more." Paying Microsoft and the developers with no money to the reseller isn't my idea of empowerment, and even if the conversation's moved from that assertion (they refuse to clarify) the person who's ultimately losing value is the reselling consumer, not the reselling retailer.

 

If Tomb Raider "Failed" because it "only sold 3.4 million in its first month" the problem ain't used games. The industry's problem is the white rabbit that is Call of Duty and the install base of console owners who exclusively play it that occasionally look to branch out.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Maldron

[The NZA]

nah spiffy...some of that is kinda out of the loop man

 

- casuals alone don't carry a system man; you're thinking of Wii 3-4 years back. take a look at sales beyond that point, or the currnet WU ones. even Kinect has been falling off in the time since.

 

- the market isn't shrinking, it grew last gen vs the PS2 dominated one before it. Wii sold north of 100 million, MS & sony fought but both ended up with what, 60-70 million worldwide each? either way, that's more people buying than ever.

 

- gamestop is, again, one of the biggest allies to the industry, i already made this post though

 

- the "plunge" isn't being well-received so far, and again following the SimCity mess i can't see why they thought it would've...constant internet isn't a given everywhere (especially here in the states), if it was such a hot idea they wouldn't have had to walk it back/attempt to clarify what, at least 3 times now?

 

shit's so bad there's industry talk that sony was thinking about doing this, but last minute reconsidering, just to capitalize on consumer feedback. think about that.

 

- sorry man, i know people think dedicated consoles will die in the future with cloud gaming or whatever but there's no way focusing on the diminished market for standard cable TV is anything resembling "looking forward", maybe kinect OS stuff can be argued but the rest of it is a weird focus to make in 2013, while more & more people are ditching cable & subbing to streaming/on-demand services

[Keth]

The title of this thread is evolving. Next stage needs to be X-BONE

[Maldron]

[Newtype]

The title of this thread is evolving. Next stage needs to be X-BONE

 

Nope.

[Keth]

XBleh?

[spiffytee]

nah spiffy...some of that is kinda out of the loop man

 

- casuals alone don't carry a system man; you're thinking of Wii 3-4 years back. take a look at sales beyond that point, or the currnet WU ones. even Kinect has been falling off in the time since.

 

- the market isn't shrinking, it grew last gen vs the PS2 dominated one before it. Wii sold north of 100 million, MS & sony fought but both ended up with what, 60-70 million worldwide each? either way, that's more people buying than ever.

 

- gamestop is, again, one of the biggest allies to the industry, i already made this post though

 

- the "plunge" isn't being well-received so far, and again following the SimCity mess i can't see why they thought it would've...constant internet isn't a given everywhere (especially here in the states), if it was such a hot idea they wouldn't have had to walk it back/attempt to clarify what, at least 3 times now?

 

shit's so bad there's industry talk that sony was thinking about doing this, but last minute reconsidering, just to capitalize on consumer feedback. think about that.

 

- sorry man, i know people think dedicated consoles will die in the future with cloud gaming or whatever but there's no way focusing on the diminished market for standard cable TV is anything resembling "looking forward", maybe kinect OS stuff can be argued but the rest of it is a weird focus to make in 2013, while more & more people are ditching cable & subbing to streaming/on-demand services

 

Growth in the electronic game industry is generally driven by the introduction of new technology. Gaming consoles are typically launched in cycles as technological developments in both chip processing speeds and data storage provide significant improvements in advanced graphics, audio quality and other entertainment capabilities beyond video gaming. The current generation of consoles (the Sony PlayStation 3, the Microsoft Xbox 360 and the Nintendo Wii) were introduced between 2005 and 2007. The Nintendo DSi XL was introduced in early 2010, the Nintendo 3DS was introduced in March 2011 and the Sony PlayStation Vita was introduced in February 2012. A new console cycle is developing as Nintendo launched the Wii U in November 2012 as the next generation of the Wii. Also, Sony has announced that the next generation of the PlayStation will come to market by the holiday period of 2013. Microsoft has not formally announced definitive plans to introduce a new console. Typically, following the introduction of new video game platforms, sales of new video game hardware increase as a percentage of total sales in the first full year following introduction. As video game platforms mature, the sales mix attributable to complementary video game software and accessories, which generate higher gross margins, generally increases in the subsequent years. The net effect is generally a decline in gross margins in the first full year following new platform releases and an increase in gross margins in the years subsequent to the first full year following the launch period. The planned launch of the next-generation Sony PlayStation by the holiday period of 2013 will negatively impact our overall gross margin in that quarter and in future years. Unit sales of maturing video game platforms are typically also driven by manufacturer-funded retail price reductions, further driving sales of related software and accessories. Historically, new hardware consoles are typically introduced every four to five years. However, the current generation of hardware consoles is now over six years old and consumer demand is declining. We have seen declines in new hardware and software sales in fiscal 2012 due to the age of the current console cycle. The introduction of new consoles, like the Wii U, or further price cuts

on the current generation of consoles could partially offset these declines. We expect that future growth in the electronic game industry will also be driven by the sale of video games delivered in digital form and the expansion of other forms of gaming. We currently sell various types of products that relate to the digital category, including digitally downloadable content, Xbox LIVE, PlayStation and Nintendo network points cards, as well as prepaid digital and online timecards. We expect our sales of digital products to increase in fiscal 2013. We have made significant investments in e-commerce, digital kiosks and instore and Web site functionality to enable our customers to access digital content easily and facilitate the digital sales and delivery process. We plan to continue to invest in these types of processes and channels to grow our digital sales base and enhance our market leadership position in the electronic game industry and in the digital aggregation and distribution category. In fiscal 2011, we also launched our mobile business and began selling an assortment of tablets and accessories. We currently sell tablets and accessories in all of our stores in the United States and in a majority of stores in our international markets. We also sell and accept trades of preowned mobile devices in our stores. In addition, we intend to continue to invest in customer loyalty programs designed to attract and retain customers.

 

So Gamestop's info is a little outdated (Feb 2013), but it's the end of this generation and sales are going down since it's the end of the current generation from 9.4 billion to 9.5 billion to 8.9 billion in the past 3 years. (hardware and software sales total)

 

But that hasn't stopped their used game sales, which is now the highest of its last 3 years:

Gamestop as of FEB 2013

 

Pre-owned video game products . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.2 billion 48.1% (Gross Percent Profit of Operations)

48.1% of their profits. Pretty much half.

 

 

Oh and by the way, 2012-2013 Gamestop was operating at a loss of 270 million, also a steady decline in the past 3 years

Edited May 30, 2013 by spiffytee

[spiffytee]

a new article for the slump from forbes:

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2013/05/29/despite-soft-earnings-gamestop-looks-resilient-amid-slumping-industry-sales/

[The NZA]

...i am not reading your wiki copy/pasta or whatever that was back there, but i am open to your points in other formats

 

earlier this year, GS closed a shitload of stores, because for some reason they were doing so well during an economic slump that it didn't occur to them opening 12 chains in every shopping center wasn't always necessary

 

as for the slump, you're looking at what traditionally happens at the end of every generation: people stop buying, because they want new stuff. this gen will have gone on for 8 years by the time the other systems drop, so that's also a big factor (we still had millions buying garbage like RE6 somehow)...doesn't take from what i said though, more systems bought than ever. the only people who want you to think the console market is somehow dwindling worldwide are weird ios/android fans/analysts.

[spiffytee]

That was taken from gamestop's financial report. Basically says that they are operating at a loss (only last year), however their revenue from used game sales are almost 50% (compared to their other income sources - new games, new hardware and "other") has increased in the past few years despite the end of the current generation curve (slump). Yes, clearly some mismanagement somewhere in there.

 

Not a big fan of that other group you have there, but there are a lot of new developments in the portable phone/tablet arena and they shouldn't be shrugged off. I don't think that it will take over the pc or console industry, but I bet the ownership of these devices are greater than consoles or gaming pcs. The opportunity seems to be there.

[IceManML]

Forbes writers write game reviews while barely playing the game. (Totally unrelated)

 

Gamestop can continue to exist if they start investing in retro distribution. Have you seen the prices for Saturn games recently? Let alone a a new copy of mario2...

 

Now gamefly... That service is virtually dead. Unless new DRM protocol allows them to go into digital I.e. renting time w a game vs paying full price to own it.

Edited June 1, 2013 by IceManML

[spiffytee]

I couldn't find some numbers that were comparable to Gamestop's 1.2 billion from used games last year until I was reading somewhere else the Microsoft red ring failure "fund". So here is a number to compare it to.

 

MS $1.05 billion to replace RROD and e74 error xbox 360's

 

vs.

 

Gamestop $1.2 billion in used games last year.

[Newtype]

Spiffy can you please tell us the point your trying to make with out the wall of text.

[The NZA]

seriously, i have no idea about that last comparison

 

a) is the price MS paid for rushing unfinished hardware, and it didn't even cover scratched discs. they made their money back.

 

b) is a figure created from people buying & trading more games than they would without the ability to resell, or buy used. GS also puts up impressive #'s on how much of that $ is then used to purchase new games, another point i made about why they're a big friend of the industry, and are treated as such - when not being demonized for doing what every other entertainment medium normally works with (resale market)

 

there is nothing forward thinking about limiting consumer options.