archangel Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I mean, seriously, wtf? Girls Basketball Coach Fired After 100-0 Win DALLAS — The coach of a Texas high school basketball team that beat another team 100-0 was fired Sunday, the same day he sent an e-mail to a newspaper saying he will not apologize "for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity." Kyle Queal, the headmaster for Covenant School, said in The Dallas Morning News online edition that he could not answer if the firing was a direct result of coach Micah Grimes' e-mail disagreeing with administrators who called the blowout "shameful." Queal did not immediately answer phone messages or e-mail from The Associated Press. On its Web site last week, Covenant, a private Christian school, posted a statement regretting the outcome of its Jan. 13 shutout win over Dallas Academy. "It is shameful and an embarrassment that this happened. This clearly does not reflect a Christlike and honorable approach to competition," said the statement, signed by Queal and board chair Todd Doshier. Grimes, who has been criticized for letting the game get so far out of hand, made it clear in the e-mail Sunday to the newspaper that he does not agree with his school's assessment. "In response to the statement posted on The Covenant School Web site, I do not agree with the apology or the notion that the Covenant School girls basketball team should feel embarrassed or ashamed," Grimes wrote in the e-mail, according to the newspaper. "We played the game as it was meant to be played. My values and my beliefs would not allow me to run up the score on any opponent, and it will not allow me to apologize for a wide-margin victory when my girls played with honor and integrity."A phone number for Grimes could not be located by The Associated Press. The Dallas Morning News said Grimes did not respond to their repeated e-mail requests for a telephone interview. There was no answer at a number listed for Doshier. A parent who attended the game said Covenant continued to make 3-pointers — even in the fourth quarter. She praised the Covenant players but said spectators and an assistant coach were cheering wildly as their team edged closer to 100 points. Covenant was up 59-0 at halftime. Dallas Academy has eight girls on its varsity team and about 20 girls in its high school. It is winless over the last four seasons. The academy boasts of its small class sizes and specializes in teaching students struggling with "learning differences," such as short attention spans or dyslexia. There is no mercy rule in girls basketball that shortens the game or permits the clock to continue running when scores become one-sided. There is, however, "a golden rule" that should have applied in this contest, Edd Burleson, the director of the Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools, said last week. Both schools are members of this association, which oversees private school athletics in Texas. The story has received national attention, and the Dallas Academy team has been recognized for refusing to give up during the lopsided contest. -------------------------------------------------- WHY?! WHY THE FUCK WAS SHE FIRED? IT'S FUCKING SPORTS! You win, or you lose. this liberal, PC, pussy bullshit is going to end up killing us, I swear to Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilly Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Wow...just... Fucking wow. I wouldn't apologize either. I know it's fucked up...but why should there be an apology? I've been taught that there are no "small shows" (or games, as it were)...so you always give it your all. So basically, he got fired because his team won too hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal08 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I think the school buckled under pressure. It made MSN.com front page like 3 days ago, and some world news were talking about it. So, all the attention the school was getting, it turned into a 'we gotta do something' which is wrong. He will win any lawsuit though, bc he didnt violate any contracts... buuut that leads to another stupid lawsuit. So, its a bad deal all the way around. fuck the pansy ass's who cant take a lil heat from the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Allow me to try to explain this for people not familiar with the concept. In sports, there is a long standing tradition called the Mercy Rule. I learned about it from Elementary School coaches, Cub Scouts, and Summer Camp counselors. It basically says that if you are just slaughtering the other team, you go easy on them once it becomes clear they are unquestionably outmatched. In games without a clock that can go forever (like baseball), you can offer to end the game early. In games with a clock, like basketball, you just ease, maybe let them score a few times to avoid humiliation. Little League Baseball, it is formalized as a 17 run lead after 5 innings, though it can be invoked earlier. It is generally a rule for non-professional, non-university level sports, where sportsmanship and character-building is supposed to be one of the driving reasons for playing sports, though in Baseball it is in effect even at the professional (MLB) level (it's called the Run difference rule). Agree with it or not (and there is some controversy in sports circles over it), it is not an issue of liberal, PC nonsense, it's an issue of sportsmanship. This tradition goes back generations. Whether or not someone deserved to get fired over this is another issue too. If the coach's job description includes representing the values of the school, among them being sportsmanship, I think this is not entirely out of order, though there might be details here the story doesn't cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 If this was elementry or even Junior High I think they would have a case. But this is high school, if you suck then just get the fuck over yourself. The mercury rule has some credence with younger people but for kids who were probably mostly Juniors and Seniors this is a bit ridiculous. And firing the coach was in pretty bad taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 i used to play little league, and this nonsense had been recently implemented in the early 80's. My step dad, who had coached my little league team, had been coaching since the 70's, and the question of mercy was left up to the coach. This is stupid, and I'll tell you why: if you're getting creamed and want to save embarrassment, walk off the damned field if it bothers you so much. the damned Detroit Lions went 0-16 and they played every one of their games to finish. How many times have the Patriots run over one of their opponents? I didn't hear people bitching about 'oh, my vagina hurts so much, they beat us by a gazillion points. wah wah wah.' It's sports: there are winners and there are losers, it's part of the fucking game. you know when this liberal, PC bullshit began? When people started this stupid mantra of 'there are no winners or losers, just people having fun.' while that may be true in many occasions, I promise you I had more fun winning than I did losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilly Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 From the damned article in the OP: There is no mercy rule in girls basketball that shortens the game or permits the clock to continue running when scores become one-sided. There is, however, "a golden rule" that should have applied in this contest.... Now...that "golden rule" may very well be a sort of "mercy rule", but the article fails to mention what that "golden rule" might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 I assume they probably mean the golden rule: "Treat others as you would like to be treated." In other words "you would probably want mercy so you should treat others with it." I say as long as you're not a bad sport about trouncing the other team's ass then no blood, no foul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 i used to play little league, and this nonsense had been recently implemented in the early 80's. My step dad, who had coached my little league team, had been coaching since the 70's, and the question of mercy was left up to the coach. This is stupid, and I'll tell you why: if you're getting creamed and want to save embarrassment, walk off the damned field if it bothers you so much. the damned Detroit Lions went 0-16 and they played every one of their games to finish. How many times have the Patriots run over one of their opponents? I didn't hear people bitching about 'oh, my vagina hurts so much, they beat us by a gazillion points. wah wah wah.' It's sports: there are winners and there are losers, it's part of the fucking game. you know when this liberal, PC bullshit began? When people started this stupid mantra of 'there are no winners or losers, just people having fun.' while that may be true in many occasions, I promise you I had more fun winning than I did losing. Yes, but in NFL, you never see scores of 140-3, and I guarantee you, sometimes the teams are matched up that if the stronger team played without any mercy, they could rack up a score like that. If you look at blow-out games, 9 times out of 10, the majority of the score was racked up in the first half. In the second, they let up. Now, in pro sports, alot of player hate this because games like that are opportunities to build up their personal stats, but coaches do it anyway. And in high school and college men's sports, where competition is so fierce to advance to the next level (university and pro, respectively), it can hurt a players chances for growing personal stats. I know all the arguments for and against the mercy rule in different sports and at different levels, and alot of the time I agree with the rule's opponents. Your feelings on the mercy rule are your own, but like it or not, it is not a politically-correct, liberal, "everyone's a winner, there are no losers" thing. That's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. The Mercy Rule is no more PC than the concept of being a good winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stilly Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Ok, ok...let's just say that the mercy rule is just there. No politics involved, it exists for this purpose kinda thing, etc., etc., etc. Wouldn't it then be the ref's call to enforce this rule as opposed to the coach of one of the teams? That's the only part I'm really concerned with...the firing of the coach involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Like I said, if her contract said it's part of her job to represent the school's values, and one of those is sportsmanship, then the school probably is, legally speaking, in the clear for firing her. If there is no such clause, then she had the right to play the team hard and have her own opinions on the matter, and the school had no right to fire her. As it stands, I don't know what her contract required of her. Most school reserve the right to fire teachers/coaches/counselors/etc on the grounds of character issues, and generally speaking, most laws/courts give schools a wider breadth because these are jobs involving interaction with children. That said, should the school have fired her in my personal estimation? Probably not. It probably could have been handled better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal08 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Jax, I think everyone here knows about the mercy/slaughter rule. I think the running up the score with shooting 3's in the 4th quarter was a bit much, and unsportsman like, at any grade level. HOWEVER I don't think a man's/coaches career should be done away with bc people have shitty ass teams. If he is a coach, chances are he has a kid, so no a man, wife, and kid are w/o a paycheck, all bc he built a good team that lacked some 'common sport curtesy', that just makes them an asshole team, not someone who needs to collect unemployment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsmithx Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Yes, but in NFL, you never see scores of 140-3, and I guarantee you, sometimes the teams are matched up that if the stronger team played without any mercy, they could rack up a score like that. If you look at blow-out games, 9 times out of 10, the majority of the score was racked up in the first half. In the second, they let up. Now, in pro sports, alot of player hate this because games like that are opportunities to build up their personal stats, but coaches do it anyway. And in high school and college men's sports, where competition is so fierce to advance to the next level (university and pro, respectively), it can hurt a players chances for growing personal stats. I know all the arguments for and against the mercy rule in different sports and at different levels, and alot of the time I agree with the rule's opponents. Your feelings on the mercy rule are your own, but like it or not, it is not a politically-correct, liberal, "everyone's a winner, there are no losers" thing. That's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. The Mercy Rule is no more PC than the concept of being a good winner. No you wouldn't see scores like that in the nfl, just look at last years pats, they didn't hold back anything and kept going for it and never reached a score like that. Btw I think the score was run up more then it needed to be but at the same time your simply not going to tell your girls to stop scoring or let the other team score, from what I can tell they just plain and simply sucked really really really bad. there are limits to what you can to avoid running up a score. this is BS this guy got fired, fucking people caving into stupid shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Jax, I think everyone here knows about the mercy/slaughter rule. Well, I was just countering Arch's assertion that this was a result of PC culture, and it's not. It predates the PC culture and is about sportsmanship, not a "everyone's a winner, nobody loses." Beyond that, I think there are alot of legitimate criticisms of the mercy rule, and just not sure if this coach actually violated an established codified school policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 the idea that the mercy rule exists is specifically a result of the PC Culture, Jax! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal08 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 well, I actually think the slaughter rule exists in baseball bc the games turn into midnight long affairs if it didnt exist... mercy rules in basketball, I never encountered bc you were usually seeded by playing caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Bob Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 C'mon, arch, mercy rules have been around long before the concept of political correctness even existed. As for this, the school was a private Christian highschool which expects its teachers and coaches to be moral leaders above all else. And the firing isn't because the coach acted in an unsportsmanlike manner, but because he refused to apologize for it afterwards at the school's request. Should he have to apologize? No, probably not, but it would certainly be the good Christian thing to do and that's what this school cares about. Sig, think about if this had happened at ACS. You know whoever it was probably wouldn't be coaching anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 C'mon, arch, mercy rules have been around long before the concept of political correctness even existed. Political correctness was a communist term created by the Soviet Union after the fall of the Czars. it was specifically used to weed out potential 'traitors' or 'anti-revolutionaries' by limmitting terms/phrases that were considered to be against the party, hence why it's called 'politically incorrect'. And the firing isn't because the coach acted in an unsportsmanlike manner, but because he refused to apologize for it afterwards at the school's request. dunno, that sounds pretty unsportsmanlike, at least that's what they're accusing (not trying to be snarky, but it's kinda sounds like they are accusing him of it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal08 Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Sig, think about if this had happened at ACS. You know whoever it was probably wouldn't be coaching anymore. and he's not coaching anymore. oh wait, that was because he coudnt keep his hands to himself... damn registered sex offenders at baptist schools. Catholic, I'd expect, but not the unforgiving bigots of the baptist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Bob Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Political correctness was a communist term created by the Soviet Union after the fall of the Czars. it was specifically used to weed out potential 'traitors' or 'anti-revolutionaries' by limmitting terms/phrases that were considered to be against the party, hence why it's called 'politically incorrect'. That's a nice history lesson but I'm not sure what exactly is has to do with basic sportsmanship which has been around since...well...sports. dunno, that sounds pretty unsportsmanlike, at least that's what they're accusing (not trying to be snarky, but it's kinda sounds like they are accusing him of it). Of course they're accusing him of being unsportsmanlike. He was being unsportsmanlike. Having your team shoot three pointers in the 4th quarter with the score that lopsided is unsportsmanlike. But that isn't what got him fired. What got him fired is that the school - his employer - wanted him to apologize to help them maintain their Christian values in the eyes of the public, and he refused. Not only did he refuse, but he sent an email to the newspaper specifically to say so. That's why he was fired. and he's not coaching anymore. oh wait, that was because he coudnt keep his hands to himself... damn registered sex offenders at baptist schools. Catholic, I'd expect, but not the unforgiving bigots of the baptist! That's a whole separate can of worms, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 Having your team shoot three pointers in the 4th quarter with the score that lopsided is unsportsmanlike. ...why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Bob Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 ...are you just arguing to argue now? Sportsmanship n. 1. The fact or practice of participating in sports or a sport. 2. Conduct and attitude considered as befitting participants in sports, especially fair play, courtesy, striving spirit, and grace in losing. Hell, the coach himself acknowledged it when he said, "My values and my beliefs would not allow me to run up the score on any opponent." He acknowledges that running up the score is unsportsmanlike and goes against his values and beliefs but somehow he doesn't think this counts as "running up the score". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archangel Posted January 26, 2009 Author Share Posted January 26, 2009 No, I'm serious. It's part of the game: score more points than your opponent. Why is it unsportsmanlike to see how high you can go?If the point of the game is 'get more points than the other guy' I don't see how 'getting more points than the other guy' is a lack of courtesy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Bob Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Because in a game where they only needed 2 points to win, they decided to get 98 more. You really don't seem to know what sportsmanship is, arch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 i forget, but in major league baseball, if the other team's down by so many points, cant the game be ended an inning early? either way, these chicks shouldve taken a mulligan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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