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Marvel vs DC


The NZA

classic (...) 90s miniseries Marvel vs DC  

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was talking about this one with bish recently...yeah, this 90s series was fun in its concept, but pretty weak in execution. it was done by votes, so nothing really counted, but even before the weird Amalgam shit, we had fun moments like when Superman was getting damn near killed by Venom (this always stands out to me, dude just punched out Juggernaut and now a symbiote who's 2 primary weaknesses are supes' daily things, and he needs spidey to save him? really?). Still, i wanted some fanboy talk about the fights.

 

1st Battle - Heavyweights

 

honestly, Thor would be a better fight. i dont think Supes could just toss him into the sun like so many of his other foes, but id go with either World War Hulk (who beat up the entire marvel U) or Rulk (Red Hulk - about as strong, way smarter/tactical, owned Thor at the peak of his Odinson power). I like to think either's a more even/interesting match but i wont argue with Supes coming out on top either way, i suppose.

 

2nd Battle - Controversy!

 

alright, you crazy, overhyped Bat-fans, hear me out.

Daredevil vs Bats was a stretch, but i thought it an interesting fight. im well aware Batman can beat jesus if he has enough time to plan and Frank Miller writing him. Cap hasnt just been punching nazis in the face since bruce's parents were babies; he's mastered enough fighting styles to be marvel's premier hand-to-hand guy. Wolverine's far older and tactically cant take him in a fistfight. Bats has the power of deus ex, no doubt, and has bested uh, Dracula, Predators and all kinds of shit. Cap took out Thanos in Infinity Gauntlet when all of Marvel was dead, cause at the end of the day, he comes out on top.

 

Also, the super soldier serum means he's quite beyond peak human strength. with the Ultimates shit merging into the 616/regular U, im pretty sure he's at the level of jumping out of planes without a parachute. im not saying he'd own the shit out of bats, or that the fight woudlnt cost him, but Steve'd take it and even the writers of the old mini knew this, so they had bats win by some weird flash-flood shit. Bish likes to point out that Bats, if finding himself as outclased as im selling, would escape to strategize. i agree with this, but for the purposes of this ridiculous fanboy battle, still count that as an L.

 

3rd Battle - WTF

 

yeah, you know you're out of your weight division when even the writers back then had to have it go down off-panel. some people hypothesized they may've fucked or something. im not sure, i just hate Lobo and think his finest moment was when Ennis had him ass-raped.

that said, adamantium or not - fuck it, give him Deadpool's healing factor - m boy cant hang with an unkillable parody that even superman's worried about.

 

4th Battle - Space Madness

 

I know Surfer's kinda boring sometimes, and i love GL, but i cant see it. Even Hal feels way out of his league, but id love to be wrong here. Bish made a fine point - Kyle as Ion would be a better match, id love to see that.

 

5th Battle - everybody wins in a catfight

 

...also not even close. It was worse at the time cause Diana picked up Mjolnor just to show she could, then put it down and proceeded to lose on account of x-men running shit popularity-wise in the 90s. Now, Ms Marvel (Carol Danvers) would put up a much better fight, though id still not bet on her.

 

6th Battle - guns come out

 

yeah, i used to think little of Deathstroke, Identity Crisis changed my mind there. Punisher would need some Batman shit to pull this off, and without Ennis at the helm, that's likely not gonna happen. Bish voted for Deathstroke vs Deadpool for irony's sake, im sure we can get a better matchup here though.

 

7th Battle - (who paired these two?)

 

I know superboy's strong, but spidey's taken out like 80% of the marvel U at some point or another. i need to know more about the clone to know if spidey's out of his league here or not, cause im not seeing it.

 

8th Battle - Speedsters

 

...youve got a guy who can break the sound barrier, and the other, light. this is more Arch's territory, but yeah, they're so mismatched (even before the 90s book had Pierto taking cheapshots while Flash was saving civilians)

its not even funny. if you vote Quicksilver here, you've failed.

 

9th Battle - gods

 

Thor just lost his father's power, which made him really high tier, but he was no slouch before that. Im willing to hear cases for Captain Marvel, who ive never really respected outside of say Kingdom Come.

 

10th Battle - Under the sea

 

Yeah, Namor's no pushover. And even Chappelle has Aquaman jokes, but dude gets underestimated. Go back and read the Peter David shit when Arthur lost that hand - he took out the freakin' JLA once. Where's Jumbie, he knows about thsi shit.

 

 

 

 

there you have it. argue away, and feel free to use the Marvel database and DC database for rough (possibly outdated) figures/stats if you wanna get technical and shit!

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I did read, but it doesn't mean that I agree with the findings. I voted for who I thought should/would win.

 

bubububut you have to read the books! if you actually know every character on that list, hey, shut my mouth.

 

I clearly don't know my comics.

 

silence, you.

 

i also wanted comments, not just anonymous votes! if you think hulk can take supes, let's hear it. i wrote words, lets see some words.

dont go tellin me its hard to type on a PS3. YOU CAN DO IT, SIR.

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Seriously, go read Marvel's entry for his powers. It's like there wasn't anything he was bad at. They even said

Captain America once stated that he was able to dodge bullets because he "sees faster than them"

.

Heh heh heh.

 

Also? Apparently very good at doing sketches.

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yeah, i new official-like pages were a bad idea. the books havent addressed his artsy skills in years, but he still rocks the chain mail and all that.

this is what kills me.

 

Peak Human Durability: Rogers' ability to withstand injury was superior to those of ordinary humans. This explained how he had survived the physical punishment during his career like building falls and explosions.

 

Handbooks classed him at overhead pressing 800 lbs but he had also bench pressed 1100 lbs and curled 500 lbs. In volume 4 he was cited as having the strength of 10 men and in the Invaders Steve himself stated he had the strength of half a platoon of fighting men(which was around 10 men). He had also been referenced twice as having preternatural strength.

 

...what?

batman's almost as wacky.

 

He was seen to be breaking steel chains and cuffs, supporting 1010lbs ceiling, bending steel metal bars with his hands, even punched a SWAT officer through a brick wall

 

i havent read guinness book of world records in years, but im pretty sure this is well outside "peak human" on both ends. you know what, forget those links!

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I know every character on the list, yes, as to who they are, ... but I don't know every one on their true comic abilities, no. I am a fan of certain ones, and those are the ones I pull for. Just like fantasy football, you think your team is the best... no matter if they are 0-15 and a final game remaining!

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did you read my first post?

both are hand-to-hand masters (Cap is like the go-to guy in Marvel for this). both are great strategists, while Cap has fought in wars.

Cap is far older & more experienced. He is also faster, stronger and can endure a lot more. in terms of sheer strength, bats could, based on the comics, feasibly lift the front end of a car, while cap could rip a door off (wanna say he has, i forget what issue). this isnt to say bats hasnt had to fight someone stronger and potentially quicker, but Cap has had to hold his own with cosmic entities. im not saying its a wide enough gap to have bats out of his league - itd be a really good fight - and bats would walk away from it, but having lost.

 

it was a pretty fun debate in the day when it was ongoing cause the editor at Wizard would get all kinds of letters (writers & artists as well) chiming in on what a gyp it was that Cap was gonna lose to the crazy bat-fans. i understand the fight's not as obvious cause far more people know/love bats from cartoons & the like. its at least debatable, whereas voting for :2T: to beat Lobo or GL to beat the Surfer just means you dont read comics.

 

I know every character on the list, yes, as to who they are, ... but I don't know every one on their true comic abilities, no. I am a fan of certain ones, and those are the ones I pull for. Just like fantasy football, you think your team is the best... no matter if they are 0-15 and a final game remaining!

heh, im giving you shit here, granted. if you know Deathstroke & some others, my bad.

its just, to use the wolvy/lobo example....fuck, i love my boy. but anyone can can pick you up & toss you into the sun without a tremendous amount of effort...that's not a fight, its assisted suicide.

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Calm down now, I was thinking that you were seeing the outcome as a given, while apparently you were thinking the same of me.

 

i...i wasnt excited

 

well, i know you read some comics (mostly vertigo, yeah? i always think how i oughta be reading fables when you're around), but yeah, just spelling out why cap'd take it before bishop shows up and gets all funky about the cartoon or something and then baytor says how bats' villains suck and it all gets derailed.

 

oh snap the fanboy internets agree

 

sig - you know, i think i have an issue where wolvy did go into the freaking sun, swear to god. phoenix saved him, as i recall? ...yeah.

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This has always been a discussion. By and large, DC heroes tend to be more overpowered. But in these line-ups, lets be honest here: there's really only two/three fights where there's an actual 'fight'.

 

World War Hulk vs Superman would be interesting...but ultimately, I don't think he'd be able to beat the Man of Steel.

 

GL vs Surfer would be a hell of a fight, and no, I don't think it would be as clear cut as that.

 

Lobo vs wolvie would be a joke.

 

Wonder Woman vs Storm would be a joke

 

Flash vs Quicksilver (and I'm letting you chose any Flash at this point: even old man Garrick would beat the shit out of Pietro, and those two are the ones closest in abilities) would be a joke

 

Namor vs Aquaman would be hysterical to watch Aquaman suck even in his own terrain.

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World War Hulk vs Superman would be interesting...but ultimately, I don't think he'd be able to beat the Man of Steel.

I dunno, Superman got taken down by Doomsday (given, it was a two-way take down, but still...). How would the World Breaker compare to Doomsday?

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Here's my thing/question with Superman/Hulk: I don't know if this is still the case, but isn't there no measurable peak strength when your dealing with the Hulk? The way I remember it, the more pissed off he gets, the stronger he gets. That could certainly make a difference.

 

Batman/Cap'n is totally situational for me. If they met in an alley and had a spur of the moment fight, Cap by a mile. If Bats knew he was gonna be fighting this guy and what he's capable of, I give it to Wayne.

 

I don't think there's a whole lot of asses GL couldn't kick potentially, it's just a matter of creativity. The raw power is there.

 

I don't really see how Storm could even put up much of a fight with Wonder Woman, the best she could do is temporarily inconvenience her. Kinda like Flash/Quicksilver, only Maximoff ain't even gonna inconvenience the flash unless he poisons his mountain dew or something.

 

If I recall correctly, Aquaman ended up winning that fight by dropping a whale on Namor. I don't buy it, Namor could totally take a whale.

 

I voted for Thor, but in hindsight I'm thinking this one would just boil down to brute strength. Since both of their trump cards involve lightning, I'm assuming neither would be affected. Don't really know about this one.

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I still don't buy the Cap beats Bats when they meet randomly in an alley, even assuming Bats lets Steve get the upper hand for a moment batman would escape, formulate a plan, and return to kick ass. It's what he does.

 

I think the other issue is that DC heroes are by and large stronger overall than the Marvel crew, but unlike the Marvel crew, many have specific weaknesses... it's hard to say what happens then, though how say Hulk could get Kryptonite is beyond me.

 

I'd be kinda curious about current Batman vs BuckyCap, it's a bit tougher for me to decide, I tend to err on the side of Batman, but then again, Bucky is a half cyborg super assassin badass, then again Greyson has beaten Deathstroke, who is ridiculous and has a similar skill set. So I'm saying Bats again.

 

I still want to see the results of a game of Risk played by Ra's al Ghul and Dr. Doom. Doom is smarter, Ra's has several hundred years of evil and badassery to his name. Doom has Doombots, Ra's has Ninjas. I think it's a pretty even match. Ra's is still cooler though.

 

Any other ideas for villain matchups? Lex Luthor vs GG? Kingpin vs Black Mask?

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I still want to see the results of a game of Risk played by Ra's al Ghul and Dr. Doom. Doom is smarter, Ra's has several hundred years of evil and badassery to his name. Doom has Doombots, Ra's has Ninjas. I think it's a pretty even match. Ra's is still cooler though.

 

No, no, no. You need at least 3 people for a proper game of Risk.

 

 

Now that brings up an awesome image of villains playing board games. I bet the Joker'd kick some ass at Candyland. :2T:

 

Any other ideas for villain matchups? Lex Luthor vs GG? Kingpin vs Black Mask?

Bane vs. Kingpin.

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