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Spider-Man 4 No More!


Keth

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Also, Nick, all that bullshit you mentioned is nitpicking. If the first two movies hadn't been legendary it wouldn't have bothered anyone (except the MJ thing, that WAS bullshit, but I let it go, you should too) Venom was far from as lame as he's ever been, you've apparently seen only his high points, I've followed the character through everything he's been in and it's taxing on my soul sometimes (that's why I learned to stop worrying and love Anti-Venom, I hated him at first but now I've discovered he's a much cooler Brock-Venom than the black costume one ever was, plus he looks better) so yeah, Topher's Venom was far from half assed, in fact it was damn near up to par. You're probably thinking of the awesome one from the animated series... he didn't get used alot in any other medium.

 

1) you're fussing that the previous 2 movies are fantastic? that's and odd leg to stand on.

2) i read almost every Venom mini-series, and i wanna say his awesome appearences in Amazing Spider-Man. there's certainly stuff i missed, but i think i covered most of it? im not saying he's awful, but the anti-hero who eats brains thing, i didnt feel they had a direction for him i liked past uh, Return of the Sin Eater? and my bar was pretty low back then. yet even then i knew Planet of the Symbiotes was ass (mind, i adored Carnage for some reason). if youve got standout stuff of his i missed, hey, lemme know.

3) i guess i did want closer to the animated one. tell me: did Topher really capture Brock for you? i mean, past the intro level of being petty, parker-hating 2D character.

4) are you reading Anti-Venom: New Ways to Live? is that any good?

5) dont look now pal, but someone went and made you a site chock full o'nitpickery!

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Fuck that shit. A happy Peter Parker makes for boring ass Spider-Man. If I wanted a boring superhero, I'd be a Superman fan. I wanna see Peter at his wit's end, like in Spider-Man 2 where he loses his spider-grip and falls against a dumpster. I want Peter to hate his power and his responsibility, and I want him to hate his life. MJ was his best friend in Ultimate Spidey. Peter should have no friends. Harry can kinda be his friend, but not the kinda friend you can count on to have your back. His aunt loves him and that's all he should have.

 

PS: Robert Patterson officially got signed. Link.

 

Hey Jax- Escapism: you're doing it wrong.

 

If I wanted to read a comic about a down-on-his-luck teenager trying to fuck a redheaded hottie I'd read Baytor's blog watch Days of our lives. Unlucky, everyman Parker is fucking boring as hell. Morally conflicted Parker is pretty cool, but I was just so happy to be away from the stupid fucking high school boy meets girl crap

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And even with all its downfalls and my initial disappointment upon watching it the first time, I still walked out of the theater liking it better than the first X-Men movie.
Hmm, I'm not totally sure if I agree the first Spidey film was better than X-Men. It's been a while since I re-watched Spidey. Although, it's Not that hard to be a better film than X-Men. X3 did it. The first film was good, but highly overrated in the pages of fanboy nostalgia.

 

P.S. This is going to be the worst fucking movie ever!

 

Jax and anyone else who cheers on High School Spider-Man, fuck you! Do you know what's interesting about teenagers? Fucking nothing! The high school angle was the worst part about Ultimate Spider-Man (his annoying ass almost made the game difficult to play, luckily it's only 15 minutes long anyway) Oh well, I guess this means World of WarCraft is happening sooner rather than later and maybe Raimi can finally pencil in Evil Dead 4 sometime (or at least another horror movie of some type)

A lot of self-loathing there. Weren't you a teenager until a few weeks ago? I agree there's not a whole lot interesting about teenagers, but a teenager who is an orphan, social misfit, scientific genius, and a superhero? Now that could be interesting. Gee, there seems like so many opportunities for drama, suspense, and conflict in such a scenario. I wish they'd make a comic about such a guy. I bet it would be popular. Oh, wait... they already fucking did.

 

 

 

Hey Jax- Escapism: you're doing it wrong.

 

If I wanted to read a comic about a down-on-his-luck teenager trying to fuck a redheaded hottie I'd read Baytor's blog watch Days of our lives. Unlucky, everyman Parker is fucking boring as hell. Morally conflicted Parker is pretty cool, but I was just so happy to be away from the stupid fucking high school boy meets girl crap

See above, you cantankerous old fart. Just b/c the film has a high-school setting doesn't mean it will be all 90210 Gossip Creek bullshit. Way to go baytorh8r5000 on us and downplay the film before you even see a trailer or let alone let a script be finalized. :FHD:

 

Sassy Cat: out!

Edited by Mr. Hakujin
sassy
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@Jax

 

Frankly I think there are almost no secerts people keep just to themselves, there's a reason that secerts are so hard to keep, someone always knows, and I belive there is always an urge to tell people(this is both from my personal life and the lives of countless people I've known over the years) to me it has always seemed likely that peter would want someone to confide in, and as I said before, when we started reading the comic he had that, and in fact he was in college at the very least I believe when we were old enough to begin so we never really got the orginal in high school peter parkers(unless you want to tell me that you read through 20 years of spider man before you started) so I dont' think we've ever read support system less peter(and yes I'm sure there were plenty of arc's about it over the years but nothing long term that I know about) he's always had friends, and family and people he confided in who knew his secert.

 

Also your meta gaming, it's easy to say he should know not to tell people and not to tell his friend and shit abut he's a kid, and very single kid i know(myself included btw) is stuipd at that age, you just dont' have the experience you have now, frankly I always felt peter was super well adjusted for it in highschool, I would have been a wreck and I'm sure so would have all of us been. You can't look at high school peter though the eyes of an adult(and frankly I want to see how well you react even now to gaining super powers and having your life turn upside down that you make the perfect choices.)

 

Also I never said he needed a bunch of friends that know who he is, but a couple or even just one isn't a bad thing, it's proabbly a good thing, it gives him some grounding and an outside look at his life. I think early ults. was pretty good at that, yes people like fury and the x-men knew which is fine(good luck keeping secerts from pychics) but in his normal life? who knew outside of MJ? he kept it from his aunt may and some of his foes knew, which always makes for an intriguing angle.

 

I think in the end we kinda want the same peter, just on different ends of the specterm.

 

Oh and yes it very much seemed like your posts were in response to things I had posted(and I"m not the only one who thought that.)

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A lot of self-loathing there. Weren't you a teenager until a few weeks ago? I agree there's not a whole lot interesting about teenagers, but a teenager who is an orphan, social misfit, scientific genius, and a superhero? Now that could be interesting. Gee, there seems like so many opportunities for drama, suspense, and conflict in such a scenario. I wish they'd make a comic about such a guy. I bet it would be popular. Oh, wait... they already fucking did.

 

See above, you cantankerous old fart. Just b/c the film has a high-school setting doesn't mean it will be all 90210 Gossip Creek bullshit. Way to go baytorh8r5000 on us and downplay the film before you even see a trailer or let alone let a script be finalized. :cactrot:

 

Sassy Cat: out!

 

Did you read that link I posted? It absolutely is going to be that, they have a miniscule budget which means a lot less supervillain action and a lot more whining Peter which, if memory serves, was a lot of what people complained about in the last movie.

 

And an orphan, social misfit, scientific genius, superhero teenager is a horrible idea, which is why Stan Lee had him graduate high school in fucking issue 28.

 

Also, Nick: I gave Transformers 2, Public Enemies, and Funny People high scores despite the fact that I tore them to pieces. So shoosh.

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@Jax

 

Frankly I think there are almost no secerts people keep just to themselves, there's a reason that secerts are so hard to keep, someone always knows, and I belive there is always an urge to tell people(this is both from my personal life and the lives of countless people I've known over the years) to me it has always seemed likely that peter would want someone to confide in

 

You're beliefs about secrets and secret-keeping remind me of the 'toupee fallacy.' Some people believe all toupees look fake, or that they can always spot a toupee, but the fact is you don't know how many toupees you seen going about your regular day, because the good ones you never know are toupees. For all know, for every bad toupee you can identify as a toupee, you see 50 toupees that are good enough to trick you. Other than the secrets YOU keep, you are only aware of the secrets that get revealed to you, so if you are not personally good at keeping secrets, then your only experience is with poorly kept secrets. For all you know, you may have lots of people in your life keeping HUGE secrets. You don't know, because they are secrets. Some people don't have that much difficulty keeping secrets, especially if the trauma of seeing your father-figure uncle bleed to death in the street makes you realize spilling your secret could hurt the people you love.

 

You can't look at high school peter though the eyes of an adult(and frankly I want to see how well you react even now to gaining super powers and having your life turn upside down that you make the perfect choices.)

 

This was how I felt about Peter Parker/Spider-Man when I began reading the comics, through the eyes of a 7th grader, because I was a 7th grader. It's not like you had to read between the lines, he'd basics said out loud (or thought out loud) how being Spider-Man was a danger to his friends and family, and he had to protect his identity to protect...like all the time. It's a recurring theme.

 

Oh and yes it very much seemed like your posts were in response to things I had posted(and I"m not the only one who thought that.)

 

Congratulations, you think something and other people agree with you. Remind me to give you a cookie next time I see you.

 

Also, Nick: I gave Transformers 2, Public Enemies, and Funny People high scores despite the fact that I tore them to pieces. So shoosh.

 

If you were trying to defend your credibility, then bravo. Mission accomplished.

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Well, you did a marvelous job of taking two separate parts of a sentence out of context and combining them into exactly what you wanted them to say, you should do cover blurbs for books. If indeed you read the entire sentence you will see that I'm saying I tore it apart, as in I nitpicked every racial slur and bad narrative choice and laid them bare for all to see, if you indeed read the review you'll see the entire thing is making fun of the movie. If you've seen anything Transformers related that isn't the Marvel comics or Beast Wars then you know that that's pretty much on par with how they work. Horrible voice work is done, entire races are insulted, things explode, robots turn into things. All of those things happened in the movie, 3 out of 5, worth a watch.

 

Also, you thought Happy Feet was cinematic brilliance, so I believe your taste is in question as well, good sir.

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Hmm, I'm not totally sure if I agree the first Spidey film was better than X-Men. It's been a while since I re-watched Spidey. Although, it's Not that hard to be a better film than X-Men. X3 did it. The first film was good, but highly overrated in the pages of fanboy nostalgia.

A lot of self-loathing there. Weren't you a teenager until a few weeks ago? I agree there's not a whole lot interesting about teenagers, but a teenager who is an orphan, social misfit, scientific genius, and a superhero? Now that could be interesting. Gee, there seems like so many opportunities for drama, suspense, and conflict in such a scenario. I wish they'd make a comic about such a guy. I bet it would be popular. Oh, wait... they already fucking did.

See above, you cantankerous old fart. Just b/c the film has a high-school setting doesn't mean it will be all 90210 Gossip Creek bullshit. Way to go baytorh8r5000 on us and downplay the film before you even see a trailer or let alone let a script be finalized. :sarcasm:

 

Sassy Cat: out!

 

Yes, such an unbelievably interesting concept, is this High School Parker thing, that they revisit it every fucking few years!! Not only am I sick of seeing it, I don't believe there is one interesting take left to be had on the matter. For me, best take I saw on Spiderman in a while was Millar's Knights run. Sure he was down on his luck, but he hit up a high school reunion and basically got to say 'fuck you' to every bully that ever gave his shit in school, with MJ on his arm. That or the completely fucking batshit SPiderman from House of M. The moment of realisation in the main book was probably the most heart-wrenching thing I've ever read, and to a lesser extent the way he uh, deals with it all in the mini was pretty interesting.

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which mini?

 

and baytor: seriously man, if my pointing out the numerous flaws of the film (and i dindt even cover them all!) equates nitpicking, this speaks more to you being an apologist or too forgiving a reviewer i think. its not surprising given our vastly differing opinions on Thoms Jane's crappy Punisher flick, but i can say in all seriousness if you and/or JZA got their money out of that flick and can honestly sum it up with one word other than "disappointment", im envious.

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which mini?

 

and baytor: seriously man, if my pointing out the numerous flaws of the film (and i dindt even cover them all!) equates nitpicking, this speaks more to you being an apologist or too forgiving a reviewer i think. its not surprising given our vastly differing opinions on Thoms Jane's crappy Punisher flick, but i can say in all seriousness if you and/or JZA got their money out of that flick and can honestly sum it up with one word other than "disappointment", im envious.

 

Let me make my first point in a different way, because that's really the crux of this argument. Spider-Man when it first came out was the best comic book movie. Ever. I'm not exaggerating, I'm not heaping praise where it doesn't belong, it was literally the best comic book movie to ever be made, it set the bar for everybody else and only a few movies since then (X-Men 2, Hellboy, Sin City, The Dark Knight) even managed to reach the bar, let alone traverse it. Then Spider-Man 2 came along and firmly dick whipped the first movie into the number 2 slot and moved on. So now the bar's so high that only the legendary movies like The Dark Knight and Iron Man can even make it happen anymore and Spider-Man 3 comes along and it didn't raise the bar. Was it bad? Not by a longshot, but it wasn't legendary and that's where the problem lies. Picture if you just saw The Dark Knight and then went and watched Tim Burton's Batman. It's a pretty shitty movie in that context, isn't it? But since Batman came first, it keeps it's place.

 

All I'm saying is that if Spider-Man had been exactly like Spider-Man 3 hen it came out, all you people bitching and moaning this very moment would be jerking off to it as we speak. No, it's NOT as good as the first 2, but it's still better than 90% of the other bullshit out there.

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All I'm saying is that if Spider-Man had been exactly like Spider-Man 3 hen it came out, all you people bitching and moaning this very moment would be jerking off to it as we speak. No, it's NOT as good as the first 2, but it's still better than 90% of the other bullshit out there.

Once again your ignorance shines through like a diamond in a dung heap. Shine on you crazy diamond. Shine on.

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I'll take Spider-Man 3 over something like Ghost Rider any day of the week. It didn't take itself too seriously, I can dig that. I can't really get over what shit Venom was, and they totally pissed on my childhood dreams, but that's cliche fanboy bitching now. I can get over that.

 

Jax: What Spider-Man books are you reading that got you so into Pete in highschool? Outside of Ultimate, I don't think I've ever read any that aren't by Ditko. Didn't really figure you for a silver age guy.

 

Personally, I dig a grown up, comfy with his powers Spidey. Fuck highschool (♩♫These problems matter♩) He's gotten pretty good at this whole Super-Hero thing because he's been doing it since he was a kid. He has a full time job and responsibilities, but I can totally due without the super model wife. I never liked that. Write MJ out of continuity as far as I'm concerned, right along with his cast of buddies.

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im gonna have to watch happy feet to shut up jax at some point and see what side to take on that one.

 

baytor - i get what you're saying about the bar being high, its a fair argument, but i think we're talking more than just degrees here. logan's right that its still well above the league of say ghost rider, but the fact that comparison even need be made speaks to how far off it fell. lemme ask you this, as i forget if we agreed on how shitty X3 was: to what extent do you blame X2's awesomeness for the shit that as 3? because im saying, even allowing breathing room for how fantastic spidey 2 was, 3 still dissapointed with lowered expectations.

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X3's bad was very different from Spider-Man 3's bad, X-Men 3 was a big fucking mess from start to finish yet I didn't hate it in the same way I didn't hate Wanted or Transformers (It's that weird explosion-centric part of my brain that made me buy Commando on DVD). X3 was essentially the 90s X-Men comics made into a movie, I don't blame X2 for making it look worse (though I suppose it did to some degree) but if X3 had happened in place of X1 (A movie that seems to, for me at least, grow more mediocre with each passing year) then we most certainly wouldn't have all the comic book movies we have now.

 

Ghost Rider's an easy target, it was an ambitious movie that shot too high and aimed too low. But I'd stack Spider-Man 3 above Daredvil, either version. I'd raise it above either Hulk movie, I'm almost tempted to rank it above Batman Begins (I admit that much, if not all, of my disdain for that movie is almost entirely "It came AFTER Spider-Man 2" based)

 

Another example of Spider-Man 3 syndrome is Hellboy 2. It had it's pacing issues and it was a bit too long (this seems to be a trend) but it was a good movie, but it wasn't AS good as its predecessor so viewed through that lens it looks pretty shitty. Like I said, if Sam and Ted had written the series from the beginning the third iteration would have gotten some groans and complaints but would've been liked on the whole. Think of it like with comics when an awesome writer leaves and another good ones takes their place but it just doesn't seem right anymore (Like Runaways with Vaughn and Whedon)

Edited by Iambaytor
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X3 was essentially the 90s X-Men comics made into a movie

 

eh...i guess, but only in light of everyone who got arbitrarily bumped off in 3 coming back in the next one or something. X2 captured the Cleremont/Lee shit in certain scenes, X3 mightve felt like the messy writing in the late 90s after "The 12" or whatever that mess was that i dropped off right after.

 

I'm almost tempted to rank it above Batman Begins

 

2upajy9.gif

 

(alright, ill save the hyperbole for hakujin, im just sayin'. how was norton's Hulk not obviously better? you're gonna make me watch this shit again one day).

 

Another example of Spider-Man 3 syndrome is Hellboy 2. It had it's pacing issues and it was a bit too long (this seems to be a trend) but it was a good movie, but it wasn't AS good as its predecessor so viewed through that lens it looks pretty shitty. Like I said, if Sam and Ted had written the series from the beginning the third iteration would have gotten some groans and complaints but would've been liked on the whole. Think of it like with comics when an awesome writer leaves and another good ones takes their place but it just doesn't seem right anymore (Like Runaways with Vaughn and Whedon)

 

see...Hellboy 2 did so many things right. Klaus wasnt himself but it worked, the exchange between Hellboy and Abe were fantastic, Del Toro's creative genius shined through at parts like the monster village...but focusing on B.P.R.D. as "monsters fighting monsters" wasnt at all subtle, the villain seemed interesting but felt hollow/kinda went nowhere, and knocking up Liz...i cant really comment here, im too big a fanboy of the book i guess. not bad, just wasnt as right as much of 1 was.

 

you're saying wha though, spidey 3 had pinch-hitters writing, or just got tacked onto the end like how they inserted sandman into the origin?

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Yeah, I'll admit my Batman Begins dislike is unfounded, I just didn't enjoy it, can't really explain it much more than that.

 

As for Norton's Hulk, the CG was much better than its previous iteration but still not great, Hulk looked like Busey, the story kinda meandered and while our 3 leads (Norton, Roth, Hurt) did a good job, just about everybody else felt lifeless and bland. But compared to the other one it was a fucking masterpiece. Still, Spider-Man 3 had a better cast of characters, the non-Kirsten Dunst/James Francos in the movie (fuck you, Topher was the best Eddie Broke to date, I don't care if he wasn't a musclebound aryan) did a great job, and like I said the little storyline wrinkles that bothered the fuck out of you (I.E. the Sandman retcon) bother you less with each viewing. Really the only unforgiveable sins are the run-time, the handling of the MJ/Spidey/Harry love triangle, and well... MJ in general really.

 

What I'm saying is that Sam and Ivan Raimi wrote their movie, and by all means Sam Ivan are no slouches when it comes to screenwriting. Honestly, I think that a lot of this shit got tossed in because the studio pushed for Venom. If Pete had the symbiote suit then he needed to go nuts on somebody, and since Sam had already chosen Sandman they had to invent a reason for Pete to go crazy, plus the fans wanted some closure on the whole Goblin thing so he tossed that in too. I personally believe that all the problems are to blame on Raimi listening to people and not just flat out making his own movie, but Sam's movie's still there, it's just got a bunch of unnecessary bad ideas tacked on, which he did his best to polish into something viewable.

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fuck you, Topher was the best Eddie Broke to date

 

You mean, better than in the comics? Because otherwise, I don't know what other versions you're comparing Topher to. While you could definitely make a case that Topher improved some individual characteristics of Brock, the original comic version took more time to explore how the symbiote effected Brock's psychology, how he feel in love with it, all the while the symbiote still loved Spider-Man and was just using Brock to get back at Peter in a kind of mad woman-scorned jealous revenge plot. In the books, Brock's life getting totally ruined festered with him for a long time before he attacks Spidey, making him seem more truly insane rather than just angry. I mean, there's not way to fit that all into one movie, so I kinda don't fault the movie for that, but saying movie-Brock was better than 616-Brock...you're going to have to explain that one to me.

Edited by Reverend Jax
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2upajy9.gif

 

(alright, ill save the hyperbole for hakujin, im just sayin'. how was norton's Hulk not obviously better? you're gonna make me watch this shit again one day).

see...Hellboy 2 did so many things right. Klaus wasnt himself but it worked, the exchange between Hellboy and Abe were fantastic, Del Toro's creative genius shined through at parts like the monster village...but focusing on B.P.R.D. as "monsters fighting monsters" wasnt at all subtle, the villain seemed interesting but felt hollow/kinda went nowhere, and knocking up Liz...i cant really comment here, im too big a fanboy of the book i guess. not bad, just wasnt as right as much of 1 was.

 

you're saying wha though, spidey 3 had pinch-hitters writing, or just got tacked onto the end like how they inserted sandman into the origin?

i agree w/ nick's gif. however, i don't see how i'm any more hyperbolic than he is. :wink:

 

Ghost Rider's an easy target, it was an ambitious movie that shot too high and aimed too low. But I'd stack Spider-Man 3 above Daredvil, either version. I'd raise it above either Hulk movie, I'm almost tempted to rank it above Batman Begins (I admit that much, if not all, of my disdain for that movie is almost entirely "It came AFTER Spider-Man 2" based)

 

after reading this post i'm pretty much finished taking anything baytor has to say about films seriously. maybe wedding plans has his mind all fucked up or something, but even considering ranking Spidey 3 above Batman Begins is just too much crazy talk for me to handle. if i want to hear stupid people say stupid things i'll watch Jersey Shore. at least there are halfway decent chicks in bikinis there.

Edited by Mr. Hakujin
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yeah, not sure what other Brock baytor's comparing to, sans maybe the odd Wizard casting calls of days gone by. suppose im bound to see spidey 3 again one day (maybe with rifftrax?), see if my view changes then.

 

movie buff i work with says he's heard/read they're talking the possibility of using an unknown actor, which i think'd be great if they go to say HBO's casting people or whoever the fuck put Downey Jr as Stark. point is, Twilight guy's hopefully just a rumor...also (granted, i cant link to shit here) im told jax'll be happy about a return to high school setting, like they're going for the Ultimate Spider-Man thing here.

 

...not sure how that wasnt true of Spidey 1 when you think of it, though.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I meant depictions of him in any medium, not acting. Cause I think it's a safe bet to say he was better than Hank Azaria.

 

It just keeps getting worse and worse

I'm almost convinced that Sony's trying to pull some kind of "The Producers" bullshit so Disney will have to pay a hugely inflated price for a series that everyone's lost interest in. Speaking of which, I hope Disney snags this before further damage can be done.

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  • 2 weeks later...

From cbr:

 

"Spider-Man" Movie Gets 3D Deal, Release Date

 

Not since the 1950s have popcorn movies been more reliant on 3D technology to help ratchet up their box office success, though with rare exceptions the trend hasn't quite collided with the Hollywood's ongoing love affair with superheroes. Sony Pictures plans to change that in 2012 with word that their next "Spider-Man" picture will bow with full 3D support.

 

As Variety reports, the movie will open in theaters on July 3, 2012 and will be presented in 3D. "Spider-Man is the ultimate summer movie-going experience, and we're thrilled the filmmakers are presenting the next installment in 3D," Sony chairman of marketing & distribution Jeff Blake told the trade.

 

Official word came down last month that the fourth Spider-Man feature would take the franchise in a new direction under the helm of "(500) Days of Summer" director Marc Webb and would feature a rebooted story focusing on the teenage adventures of Peter Parker. However, while rumors have swirled about casting after "Percy Jackson & The Olympians" actor Logan Lerman said he was in talks to play the superhero lead, nothing has been officially confirmed by Sony and Columbia Pictures.

 

Ewww.

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