Jables Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 All I want out of a game is a sense of monogamy. Sure, I'll play a game where I run like a mad cunt and get shot at a bunch, or I'll play a game with puzzles ranging in complexity that require at the very minimum some concentration. Solving puzzles while being shot at(and being able to take two hits) is not my idea of a fun time. PS- Mal, god forbid I ruin the view from your high horse there, but disregarding the hit & miss tumble landing system(I'm willing to acknowledge it may just require more finnesse than I could muster in playing this game however), I'm not sure what we're discussing 'mastering' here. Combat is a piece of piss if not just frustratingly repetitive, moving around and jumping is fine. The only mastery required, if so applicable, is learning to solve puzzles while being shot at, which once you finish the fucking campaign isn't really a concern again since speedruns are much less combat-focused & timetrails are (gasp) shockingly fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 I'm stuck again and i'm too up on painkillers to know where to go, i'm looking for a way up to the top of the atrium thing in the kate level. in the room with all the scaffolding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldron Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Two hits is what you're allowed on Hard from Sniper Fire. Unless you somehow unlocked the locked difficulty and some extra mode where there's nothing but snipers, you're exaggerating. What's more, the game requires you to actually fight so rarely that it's no wonder that people aren't great at it - and really, if you're avoiding using the guns, that makes things that much harder. I fucking hated that first no-guns run. Picking up a gun made things so much simpler it was ridiculous. The system isn't hit and miss, you're just missing the right frames in which to hit it. I can say that, having learned to do so. And really, is the horse of knowing your running skills and knowing the levels so high? Is it really so horrible to suggest that you might have to learn how to play through something before you really get into it? That you shouldn't be handed the ability to get maximum enjoyment out of something from the get go? I really don't think so. Maybe I'm jaded, having learned to get through the combat sections in under thirty seconds apiece. Maybe I'm too fucking high and mighty, having learned how to tear across puzzles after running them again and again. Maybe I'm a complete ass for suggesting that such growing pains can lead to an enjoyable experience. But you know what? It doesn't change the fact that I'm sitting here appreciating the difficulty, and you're sitting there saying that it's too hard to be enjoyable. You say I'm on a high horse; you're in a fucking high chair. I should be allowed to suggest that it's a hypocrisy, that reviewers are bitching at the difficulty of this game when they were praising the punishment they got in Bionic Commando - a game with a fucking 1-up system, no less. Apparently, difficulty is something that should be associated with the old days, and anything of the new that even touches that kind of punishing difficulty in the new is unforgivable. Guns exist to let you approach puzzles more easily, puzzles exist to be mastered, mastery exists to be refined. It's the feeling of elation at doing something twenty seconds faster than you used to be able to claim, it's observable improvement that comes from experience. When was the last time you played a game that did that, seriously? A game that didn't tell you that making your big guns bigger and your level higher and your car more beefy was the only way to find an improvement of your ability to play through it? I haven't seen that, and it's a quality that exists in this game, and I'm watching it be ignored by people who share your opinion. So excuse me for being on my high horse, I'm seeing a rare quality get shot down because some people can't be bothered. DoJ, you have to find the scaffolding section in the upper right corner from when you come in. From there, you have to run up the wall, turn, and jump. Wall run on thee right side, jump, and climb up to the next section. Turn right, vault jump to the next level, follow the concrete to the right and wall run and jump to the next area, run up the metal scaffolding immediately in front of you, wall run at the end of it, and then jump to the next section. ((Alternatively, you can follow the concrete around, hitting the section that juts out can be difficult from the wall run)). Once on that piece of extended scaffolding, turn left, wall run up the left side, jump up, wall climb the next left section, turn, and jump up to the next section. Follow the concrete until you see the concrete pillars in your way, then wall run on the right side and climb up to the small section, then wall run to the concrete "V" on the other side. Turn left and run until you hit the wall, then turn right and slow time down - wall run on the left side, turn, and jump to the jutting section. Climb up that section with more wall running until you reach the "V" above you, then wall run across the section to your immediate right and then jump to the scaffolding that's right in front of you when you reach the "V" across from you. Climb up, jump across, wall-climb and turn onto the next highest "V". Run around the entire "V" and come to a metal structure that extends, run across it and jump. You're now just one "V" run away, run around and hit the vault jump to hit the vent shaft to get to the exit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 Two hits is what you're allowed on Hard from Sniper Fire. Unless you somehow unlocked the locked difficulty and some extra mode where there's nothing but snipers, you're exaggerating. What's more, the game requires you to actually fight so rarely that it's no wonder that people aren't great at it - and really, if you're avoiding using the guns, that makes things that much harder. I fucking hated that first no-guns run. Picking up a gun made things so much simpler it was ridiculous. The system isn't hit and miss, you're just missing the right frames in which to hit it. I can say that, having learned to do so. And really, is the horse of knowing your running skills and knowing the levels so high? Is it really so horrible to suggest that you might have to learn how to play through something before you really get into it? That you shouldn't be handed the ability to get maximum enjoyment out of something from the get go? I really don't think so. Maybe I'm jaded, having learned to get through the combat sections in under thirty seconds apiece. Maybe I'm too fucking high and mighty, having learned how to tear across puzzles after running them again and again. Maybe I'm a complete ass for suggesting that such growing pains can lead to an enjoyable experience. But you know what? It doesn't change the fact that I'm sitting here appreciating the difficulty, and you're sitting there saying that it's too hard to be enjoyable. You say I'm on a high horse; you're in a fucking high chair. I should be allowed to suggest that it's a hypocrisy, that reviewers are bitching at the difficulty of this game when they were praising the punishment they got in Bionic Commando - a game with a fucking 1-up system, no less. Apparently, difficulty is something that should be associated with the old days, and anything of the new that even touches that kind of punishing difficulty in the new is unforgivable. Guns exist to let you approach puzzles more easily, puzzles exist to be mastered, mastery exists to be refined. It's the feeling of elation at doing something twenty seconds faster than you used to be able to claim, it's observable improvement that comes from experience. When was the last time you played a game that did that, seriously? A game that didn't tell you that making your big guns bigger and your level higher and your car more beefy was the only way to find an improvement of your ability to play through it? I haven't seen that, and it's a quality that exists in this game, and I'm watching it be ignored by people who share your opinion. So excuse me for being on my high horse, I'm seeing a rare quality get shot down because some people can't be bothered. DoJ, you have to find the scaffolding section in the upper right corner from when you come in. From there, you have to run up the wall, turn, and jump. Wall run on thee right side, jump, and climb up to the next section. Turn right, vault jump to the next level, follow the concrete to the right and wall run and jump to the next area, run up the metal scaffolding immediately in front of you, wall run at the end of it, and then jump to the next section. ((Alternatively, you can follow the concrete around, hitting the section that juts out can be difficult from the wall run)). Once on that piece of extended scaffolding, turn left, wall run up the left side, jump up, wall climb the next left section, turn, and jump up to the next section. Follow the concrete until you see the concrete pillars in your way, then wall run on the right side and climb up to the small section, then wall run to the concrete "V" on the other side. Turn left and run until you hit the wall, then turn right and slow time down - wall run on the left side, turn, and jump to the jutting section. Climb up that section with more wall running until you reach the "V" above you, then wall run across the section to your immediate right and then jump to the scaffolding that's right in front of you when you reach the "V" across from you. Climb up, jump across, wall-climb and turn onto the next highest "V". Run around the entire "V" and come to a metal structure that extends, run across it and jump. You're now just one "V" run away, run around and hit the vault jump to hit the vent shaft to get to the exit. Point to you. You're saying the no-gun run is punishing that's fair enough. It just sucks that for me it was punishing to the extent that it ruined the campaign experience entirely for me. Never played Bionic Commando so uh, good luck with that. In fairness I did allow in my hit-&-miss statement for lack of skill on my part, so it's not like I'm flat out accusing the development team of a shoddy product, just an incredibly infuriating one. In terms of no-gun-running, I found it hard to avoid combat at some turns(and when I say two hits I speak exclusively for melee attacks which I shoulda pointed out, sorry), and especially toward the end where I was dying a just trynna stop fellas from shooting me while I plotted my next move, it got terribly repetitive and just ball-achingly frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldron Posted November 21, 2008 Author Share Posted November 21, 2008 Point to you. You're saying the no-gun run is punishing that's fair enough. It just sucks that for me it was punishing to the extent that it ruined the campaign experience entirely for me. Never played Bionic Commando so uh, good luck with that. In fairness I did allow in my hit-&-miss statement for lack of skill on my part, so it's not like I'm flat out accusing the development team of a shoddy product, just an incredibly infuriating one. In terms of no-gun-running, I found it hard to avoid combat at some turns(and when I say two hits I speak exclusively for melee attacks which I shoulda pointed out, sorry), and especially toward the end where I was dying a just trynna stop fellas from shooting me while I plotted my next move, it got terribly repetitive and just ball-achingly frustrating. Fuck, right, the melee hits. I forgot how much THAT sucked... heh. I've been with guns too long. I'm not saying it didn't get frustrating. God knows it fucking did. It got frustrating because of the no-guns, of the not knowing where to go, and because I got the ballstastic PS3 version which mixed poorly with my ballstastic PS3 the game occasionally froze or would glitch to where everything went black even when I was doing well. You know how annoying that part of the ship is, when you go in and there's like, twelve guys to go through before you start actually doing puzzles again? Imagine freezing just after you get through it and having to start it all over. And then imagine it happening four more fucking times. This game frustrated me to no fucking end. But I learned, and things got faster ((and after my data got fucking wiped and I reinstalled it most of the glitches went away)), and guns made things faster as well. I did time trials which opened up new routes to me that got me through things faster. I learned I could safely run counterclockwise down the storm drains and shave a minute off my time. I learned that most sections with pipes had ways of completely ignoring them that were often pretty epic to pull off. I feel like I haven't even discovered half of what's there to do. Which is the beauty of Time Trials and Speed Runs, to be sure. I can only hope that, when the DLC comes, we get more of that kind of shit to play around with. I even hope that rumor of a level editor is true, though I feel that's too high a thing to hope for. I get that this game is frustrating. But as I learned it, it became less frustrating, and it got more fast-paced, and that's when I really started to get into it. There are still those annoying bits like the server room in chapter nine that don't really have elegant solutions ((or if they do, I haven't found them)), but I feel that those moments where I'm not in control are more rare than they once were. Maybe I'm being harsher than I should be, coming in after putting twenty hours or so into it when you're just off the same run that pissed me off, but I want to defend what I see in this thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 I liked this game a lot, but the ending for me was quite weak, although it does leave itself majorly open for a sequel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldron Posted November 22, 2008 Author Share Posted November 22, 2008 I liked this game a lot, but the ending for me was quite weak, although it does leave itself majorly open for a sequel. Yeah, that's a problem I have, games setting themselves up for sequels. At least this one had a decent temporary ending, the "ending" of Assassin's Creed was so fucking useless I wanted to scream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted November 22, 2008 Share Posted November 22, 2008 Yeah, that's a problem I have, games setting themselves up for sequels. At least this one had a decent temporary ending, the "ending" of Assassin's Creed was so fucking useless I wanted to scream. A-fuckin-men on the assassins creed ending. In a sense the two games are very very similar in a way, except you're more free licence to roam in assassins creed, but both were fun takes on action games in a market over populated by out and out shooting games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 damn, rental's due back and id not had time to get past the bit in the 3rd level where the game arbitrarily decided i should start hitting things. pissed me right off for 10 minutes or so, trying to find a way around it, but looks like i gotta go back and remember how to disarm people. i kinda get why the reviewers were bitching about the game punishing you for partaking in combat, and then later changing its mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 damn, rental's due back and id not had time to get past the bit in the 3rd level where the game arbitrarily decided i should start hitting things. pissed me right off for 10 minutes or so, trying to find a way around it, but looks like i gotta go back and remember how to disarm people. i kinda get why the reviewers were bitching about the game punishing you for partaking in combat, and then later changing its mind. When you see the weapon go red, you hit triangle/Y, it works better if you slo-mo it first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables Posted November 25, 2008 Share Posted November 25, 2008 Or you can just kick the shit out've 'em like I always did. Are you guys doing gunless runs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 When you see the weapon go red, you hit triangle/Y, it works better if you slo-mo it first. ah, right, right - shame the game's gone now. isnt slo-mo a finite thing, based on building it from running, though? there were like 3 guys. skeet - what'd you do? straight punching is garbage, i can slide into em or jump kick but a lotta times they block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopcruz Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 damn, rental's due back and id not had time to get past the bit in the 3rd level where the game arbitrarily decided i should start hitting things. pissed me right off for 10 minutes or so, trying to find a way around it, but looks like i gotta go back and remember how to disarm people. i kinda get why the reviewers were bitching about the game punishing you for partaking in combat, and then later changing its mind. Not to mention MOST times you can actually get around the guys pretty quickly with a minimum of fuss. If it's the area I'm thinking of you can make a bee line to the door you need to go through and not worry about fighting the dudes. I can really only think of one or two places where you HAVE to fight. Now I will agree that the enemy AI is way too fucking accurate at hitting a fast target, at range with a machine gun at times, especially on hard it can be frustrating to be trying to escape, and getting hit by a burst of fire from across a room and dying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 nah, the area's got 3 guys on a roof, and a freakin chopper if im not mistaken, and im supposed to get to the back and hop from one red pipe to the other to clear that roof, but i get shot to shit towards the top of the 2nd pipe. there's a blue staircase to the right, and im looking for other ways around them, but not seeing it, and the voiceover guy is saying i "have to fight". was hoping he was somehow wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jables Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 ah, right, right - shame the game's gone now. isnt slo-mo a finite thing, based on building it from running, though? there were like 3 guys. skeet - what'd you do? straight punching is garbage, i can slide into em or jump kick but a lotta times they block. Slide-kick is by far a girl's best friend. I threw in the odd jump-kick for fear they'd somehow adapt to my business but no, you just gotta make sure you're on the right track or you'll just slide on by 'em while they start shooting you. Jump kicks can be blocked, but for the most part barring a couple exceptions, noone sees the slide kick coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldron Posted December 23, 2008 Author Share Posted December 23, 2008 Alright, I've got Platinum on this baby, which makes my fifth. Glory to the hypnotoad. Anyway, DLC is coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signal08 Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 the fuck... that last vid feed makes me wanna start far the fuck away from this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted August 10, 2009 Share Posted August 10, 2009 heh, just saw the DLC video, that looked interesting. finally finished this one up the other day, was telling bish - again, i love the art style, kinda flies in the face of this gen's brown & grays. it also shuts my mouth about first-person platforming not working too well for me; i think having run through Prince of Persia right before this made me realize the controls are actually pretty tight, with a few exceptions. one of those being combat (JZA was right about the slide kick, that + a few punches is the ticket), i didnt do any real gunplay but once i got past falling off like every beam i had to carefully tightrope across - correct me if im wrong, i recall having to use the sixaxis a bit on the ps3 version - the only thing that'd fuck me up was jumping to red pipes. Id consistently fall right next to them, or sometimes nowhere near. the game hits its stride when you're running around the city and either choppers or anti-runners are chasing/firing on you and you're just not stopping and kinda leaping & hoping for the best, some really great moments there. Other fun was had when looking at another roof that looked way too far, scurrying about & seeing no better way, then just wall-running, leaping, and being amazed that you'd made it. I kinda felt the game's weakest points were small areas like offices or sewers that were slow and somewhat unclear on your next goal. didnt really mess much with the time trials, but i was kind of dreading returning to this one, and i ended up enjoying it overall. Here's to hoping for a sequel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keth Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Baby Mal getting his fifth plat up there. I want a sequel so bad right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maldron Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 Baby Mal getting his fifth plat up there. Boooo Bahhhh. BOOOOO BAAAHHHH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keth Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Listing for sequel appears on Amazon Germany Oh man please be real. And please be not exclusive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 the EDGE lawsuit with that troll is now over, it's down to whether or not EA/dice by proxy think it's finally worth it...new gen coming means it's now or never, far as i'm concerned. 3D platformers work, 3D jumping in 1st person still doesn't (sorry baytor; i love HLF2 like i love metroid prime but it's not a format for jumping), ME was literally the one game that disproved that. if EA's finally ready to let ME2 happen, i couldn't be happier. when it flowed, it was beautiful. will either rent or borrow then wait on steam release just like most of you will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 That's fine, you've listed all 3 games where jumping puzzles + first person wasn't infuriating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 it was only good in mirror's edge, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iambaytor Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 No it wasn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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