PS4 & Nextbox rumors (Pre E3 reveal)

[The NZA]

*DISCLAIMER: "rumor", as ever, very possibly means "entirely bullshit"

 

okay, so nintendo dev kits are starting to make their way out, and we're seeing lots of info circulating about 2 of the 3 next gen systems - since the WU is officially (re)debuting at E3, and releasing this year, while MS is expected in 2013, let's talk about microsoft first.

 

yesterday @ IGN

 

The next Xbox will ship to retailers in late October or early November of next year with six times the processing power of the Xbox 360, sources close to the project have told IGN.

 

Following initial reports from tech blogs Fudzilla and SemiAccurate, our sources have confirmed that mass production of the system's GPU will indeed begin by the end of 2012 but will not, however, be based on AMD's 7000 series Southern Islands GPU. Instead, the processor will be derived from the 6000 series, which was introduced last year. More specifically, it will be akin to the Radeon HD 6670, which offers support for DirectX11, multidisplay output, 3D and 1080p HD output. The chip currently has a market price of upwards of $79.99.

 

In real terms, the Xbox 720's raw graphics processing power is expected to be six times that of the Xbox 360 and will yield 20-percent greater performance than Nintendo's forthcoming console, the Wii U.

 

Developers are likely to receive development kits based on the system's final configuration in August. Projected pricing for the console was not provided.

 

few things:

 

1) AMD gets tricky with their numbering sometimes, so some peg that 6670=5770 = 4850, which was a midrange 2010 card. it's not bad, certainly a big leap from what the 360 has.

2) i'm not putting too much into "raw computing power" on any of these, and here's why: if you gauged based on this alone, the PS3 would've slaughtered the 360 this gen, as the cell is ideal for this, as i understand it; pairing it with a low-end/bottlenecked GPU and the same low RAM (but not dynamically shared, as MS was wise to do) and none of that mattered. i'm saing we need to see full specs to get a better picture, though i do trust MS to take dev input and build something that doesn't waste its parts.

3) this kinda confirms some of the underpowered/less of a generational leap talk we've been hearing, and i think that fits because not only does everyone want costs lower, resources are gonna be used for other stuff - new Kinect possibly draws more, and MS has already said they wan this to be a multimedia box more than anything (cue JZA jokes), so i'm thinking they might allocate more resources for that. if one company has tapped out the "core" market, it's probably them so i personally wouldn't be surprised if their next box is aimed at something more blue ocean strategy - it'll still prolly be a beast, but again, not what some are hoping for is my guess.

4) the 20% yield vs Wii-U bit is kinda telling too - nintendo's still on track with their early release to be the lowest in power of the next gen, but we're going to see much closer system parity across the board. not surprising, as i can't imagine many devs not wanting easier ports across the 3.

 

then today, kotaku posted this.

 

 

Microsoft will upgrade its disc technology for its next Xbox from DVDs to Blu-Ray discs, catching up to rival Sony, games industry sources tell Kotaku.

 

Sony's PlayStation 3 currently supports Blu-Ray, which can contain 25 or 50GB of data compared to DVD's 9GB.

 

But that disc detail could be far less impactful to the next generation of game consoles than the assertion I've heard from one reliable industry source that Microsoft intends to incorporate some sort of anti-used game system as part of their so-called Xbox 720.

It's not clear if that means that the system wouldn't play used games or how such a set-up would work. Obvious approaches—I'm theorizing here—like linking a copy of a game to a specific Xbox Live account could seemingly be foiled by used-game owners who would keep their system offline. My source wasn't sure how Microsoft intended to implement any anti-used game system in the new machine.

 

A push in any way by Microsoft against used games would likely be cheered from publishers sick of seeing retailers like GameStop crow about their revenues from the sale of used games. But it could potentially anger consumers who rely on buying cheaply-sold used games or even pass games to relatives or friends.

 

One source familiar with Microsoft's plans for the new Xbox said Microsoft plans to ship their new Xbox with a new version of its red-hot Kinect hands-free sensor system. The new Kinect would contain an on-board processor, a feature originally intended for the first Kinect. That processor would enable a new Kinect to more effectively detect users' motions.

 

I'm also hearing that Microsoft is interested in making a smaller controller for its new console.

 

And what of gaming site IGN's report that the machine could be six times more powerful than the Xbox 360? From some industry sources I'm hearing that that's the right ballpark and that Microsoft is estimating they might even get to 8x the Xbox 360. But another insider clarified that no one in the industry has development kits yet and that any talk about specs right now is still hypothetical.

1) no surprises here; both MS & nintendo look to use proprietary versions of blu-ray for space. PS3 keeps it for easier backwards compatibility (speaking of, one of these rumors showed MS has pushing for 100% BC, good on them).

2) not liking the vague anti-used games shit one bit

3) Kinect having an internal processor should mean less demand on the CPU, but i literally have no idea how this works or what they intend for it, past using it as a navigational device - bundling it is smart for casuals/etc but i hope they have more in mind for it then tacking it on like in Mass Effect 3.

4) smaller controller sounds fine; fuck logan and you big-handed freaks

5) full article goes on to say it doesn't debunk the IGN rumors either, read it at the link if you like.

 

more as it comes - nintendo assassins are keeping everyone but capcom's boy Ono quiet at the moment, likely for maximum exposure at E3. I like them when they're hungry like this, so hopefully big news - if these rumors are true though, MS would be giving them a 1-year headstart, and of course we've got literally nothing on Sony, but even with them wanting to drag things out & maximize profits, can you really picture them giving nintendo nearly 2 years and MS a full year again? E3 should be...interesting.

[Maldron]

Microsoft buying a sony proprietary tech for their new console seems unlikely, but if true it's a welcome step towards unifying the console experience. I really don't think I'm ready for a new set of shit to buy.

[Thelogan]

Bluray loading times still suck. I'd like a workaround for that, if there is one.

 

If you can't play used games, I will not buy it.

 

And FUCK smaller controllers. FUCK THEM. The 360 controller is already small. Give me The Duke!

[Keth]

Yeah that used game thing is total crap. I'm with Mal about not being ready to buy new stuff too. It's gonna be exciting to see all the new stuff coming out, but I need to squeeze as much as I can out of my 4th PS3.

[The Instigation Station]

How is the used game thing a bad thing? If you can't afford the newest games then why are you playing anyway?

[Thelogan]

If they don't put in this anti-used game shit and have at least one launch title I want, I'll day-1 it. I'm totally ready for a new gen.

Wu doesn't count. I don't want a Wu.

 

I know, right, Mr. Station? Downloadable games are already like that anyway!

 

Must not feed troll...

[The NZA]

your face doesn't count

 

also - i don't think blu-rays are slow, i think you're thinking of the PS3's drive reading them which is slow, no? and yeah, i think the 360's controller is the right non-mutant size but i'm not against them offering a circus-freak model like the OG xbox controller, as long as it's not packed in again with a bag of doritos or something.

 

mal - if not blu-ray, then what? holo-disk? bear in mind the way nintendo did those mini-dvd things to get around royalties, as i recall - i wanna say i read their BR is gonna do the same thing to dance around it, if so MS very well could too, but with them talking about big multimedia push (ties in with their recent cable acquisition too) you can't be too surprised if they want it to be an all-in-one, yeah?

[Thelogan]

Well, the PS3 is the only basis I can judge bluray game loading times. And it blows. I'd always heard it was a trade off, and an issue with the actual format. It's the optical drive that does that shit?

[The NZA]

what games are you basing this on, though? i install most of em and the ones i play (uncharted, yakuza, etc) often don't give me much trouble loading at all.

but yeah, it's the drive - and you gotta remember how much blu-ray drives cost at the beginning of the gen, i forget the actual number but you're dealing with something like 4x tops with that thing, prolly less i wanna say? whereas the 360 (especially with the better/quieter benQ drive most models have these days) is gonna be way faster, and when they added disc installations it got even better. i expect/hope for all 3 to be much better drives next go around, and good HDD space for installs...god i hope they all ape sony this gen and let us install custom ones (or allow external plugin right off the bat), but it prolly won't happen.

[C_U_SPACECOWBOY]

Let's not forget, Blu-ray was BRAND SPANKING NEW, when PS3 came out (it was basically a Trojan horse for the format). And we've basically been stuck with a gen-1 BD-drive for 6 years. Newer models of the same system can't really change up the drive speed for compatibility's sake, but with a TOTALLY new system I'm SURE we will be getting a much faster drive. Now there are 12x BD drives.

[Mortiis558]

So...itll actually be 1080p instead of 720p for every game this next gen. And WOWOWOW I am playing on a 6000 series card right fucking now on my laptop....

 

So once again consoles will be where computers were their last gen....uggg. I think people would shell out 500-1000 on a Computer Console that'd play games with all the special features that are available with new tech. Full 1080p, AA, Soft Shadowing, Full Bloom or HDR, and whatever else they come up with. Then maybe we could get some decent Pc/Console ports....

[The NZA]

yeah mortiis, but remember that a 6100 and a 6800 are really far apart performance-wise - it's the 2nd number that matters for strength, so a 6800 for example is 6th gen but a rather good card. still, you're right, it's gonna likely be something PC's have had for years.

 

as for the res & effects - i'm gonna go out on a wild limb here and say: we talked about 1080p this gen, but most games were sub-HD and didn't even clear 720p at 30 FPS (we were stuck on Unreal Engine 3 for how long there...?), and if you think about it, both sony and ms are already looking like they're prepared to sacrifice framerate for something - sony for 3D, ms for kinect, nintendo to power the tablet screen, etc. also nintendo's the only one who's design philosophy stresses 60 FPS (god i hope they embrace AA), but if i had to guess? 720-1080p and a stable 30 FPS, at least until the new gen gets off its feet and we get more tricks like MSAA as a standard. soft shadowing, 4xAA and all that - i'm right there with you, i'd just be surprised if we saw these standards you know? god i hope i'm wrong here.

[Thelogan]

[The NZA]

i love it; it's only missing some top-tier PC's "laying around" and a flag from the netherlands.

[Thelogan]

And like 12 more cats. I got impatient.

[The NZA]

heh. also!

 

PSM says: PS4 specs > x-box 720

 

PlayStation 4's early technical specifications are looking "more powerful" than those of Microsoft's next-generation Xbox targets, according to PSM3's development sources.

 

sounds legit.

 

 

this is literally all there is that i can find on the PS4 so far. sony really doesn't wanna talk about that shit, they already said don't expect it at E3 but that's what everyone says until they're ready to say shit.

 

[Thelogan]

I wish they would come out around the same time. Them sleeping on this again is just going to guaruntee I don't get around to their console until a couple of years down the road.

 

Dreamcast forEVAH bitches. This is how I roll.

[The NZA]

yeah, if MS shows up fall of 2013...maybe the rumors of a spring PS4 release could be true?

again, i just can't see them sitting out and showing up late again. they also can't afford to put out something spec'd way higher than MS because a) they need to keep price & cost low, but not wait until parts are so much cheaper than whatever MS used, and b) they need to be similar enough that if/when xbox remains the default platform for western developers, they're encouraged to port everything.

i know they wanna keep making back some of that awful loss at this gen's start, but i'm not seeing an upside to holding out.

 

ps BLUE SKIES FOREVER

[The NZA]

Tycho chimes in on the used game nextbox thing:

 

I guess it’s a rumor, but according to the Law of Dauntless Prophecy, all Microsoft rumors are true: “word” on the “street” is that the Xbox 720 will sport some inherent means of combating used sales. This has been an incredible opportunity to dish up steaming populist goulash, a dish I have a hard time watching people eat.

The fantasy scenario for publishers is to sell you something, and still own it. I would make a terrible despot, because that’s the sort of thing that wouldn’t occur to me. I may not be the Prince Of Empathy or whatever, but at the same time it seems strange to me to sell partially substantiated un-things. In some ways, though, we’re already there.

Actually, no - we are there, on the PC, and we’re getting close on the major gaming appliances. It didn’t destroy PC games to have single use codes, or to have the defacto digital service give no recourse for trading in software. It didn’t result in those theoretically lower prices for new games, and outside of the occasional shadowy enclave, Steam is considered the morally impervious Gold Standard.

I’m on record as saying I don’t agree with the practice of purchasing used software, and it’s my choice not to engage in it. I deperately want to retain that choice, because it lets me feel superior. But disallowing trade-ins via some techniwhatsit or woozle isn’t productive - it’s lose, lose, lose from a consumer perspective. Day-and-date Digital Delivery would have all the same “features” as regards a user’s control over their property though, but people hate it less, for reasons I can’t entirely explain.

 

agree with the overall sentiment, though i think he's being needlessly obtuse in the closing there (i get this from him in a lot of his writings, to be fair) - steam not only does show me, as a consumer, hefty discounts to lure me into DD purchases, but exists in a sort've open-garden environment where i have seemingly infinite options to purchase digital or physical from. An inherently closed one stripping one of the biggest options for physical away hardly seems comparable in my mind, but if this scenario actually played out and hypothetically we saw used games not working on an MS system, i tend to think software attachment rates would reinforce this.

 

I could be wrong, but gamestop's continually rising profits makes me feel it's a safe bet.

[Mortiis558]

Logan I love that pic!! Made me laugh for quite a while. Now in response...

How much money have you spent on all your consoles put together this gen??

Would you spend more on a single system that had all the fancy bells and whistles, was almost as good as a gaming pc and you didn't have to worry about it "rrod" or flat out just not working?

Or would you RATHER, buy a console from each major console maker, then have to re-buy the SAME console x-amount of times because it was shoddily put together?

 

"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of a cheap deal is forgotten"

[Mortiis558]

As far as the whole "used games" things go, they are just switching to what PC gamers have dealt with forever. They'll just make you register your new copy and won't play any games that aren't registered. That being said, Gamestop, BestBuy, Gamefly, and any other games retailer that uses copies of console games more than once are going to be fucked if this does happen. Gamestop makes it money on used games. Best Buy has finally gotten its fingers into the used market as well, and any place that rents games won't be able to do so anymore. But really we only have ourselves to blame. We the people who don't care what happens as long as we get to play our games. And the industry is so greedy that it is going to kill itself a little if it does truly make this a reality. Then when people start to pirate stuff because they are used to playing used games and can't anymore, the industry will just point to that as even more of a reason to not have used games, cause they are losing so much money.

 

Even if/when it becomes a reality though, every one of you that buys a console and a game are supporting this! Just like everyone who put up with games being released as beta's and being patched weeks, if not months after the official release. Plus everyone who paid for extra stuff in a game that should have been part of the game to begin with. We sit and bitch and complain, but when it comes time to really make a difference, with our wallets, we consistently say time and time again "Fuck me more please I love it!"

 

Thank Sweden for Pirating!

[The NZA]

Kotaku Rumor: PlayStation 4 Ditching The Cell Processor

 

PlayStation 4 Ditching The Cell Processor, Sources Say, Which Leads to Some Wild Theories.

 

The PlayStation 4 will not use Sony's Cell processor nor any possible successor to the vaunted chipset that was introduced to the world through the PlayStation 3, gaming industry sources tell Kotaku.

 

What we're hearing from sources follow a Forbes rumor last week that chip-maker AMD would make the graphics chip for a PS4, a shift from the PS3's use of a graphics chip from AMD rival Nvidia.

 

The abandonment of the Cell architecture would thrill the many game developers who have struggled with the complex chipset, but it could also be viewed as the admission of a mistake.

 

...

 

But with no Cell or Cell successor in the PS4, what would Sony do? Here's where the reporting turns to speculation. One theory I've heard is that AMD will provide both the CPU and GPU for the PS4, meaning that AMD, not Sony, would engineer the main processing and graphics chips for the machine. Should AMD be doing that, they could go with the AMD Fusion architecture, which puts CPU and GPU on the same chip. AMD has already been putting chips like this out (one was considered for the MacBook Air), which would enable Sony to turn to developers and say: you could be working with the PS4 architecture right now; just work on an AMD Llano chip or something. Would developers like that? They'd have to prefer it to Cell and—what do you know—here's one of gaming history's best programmers, id's John Carmack, saying in an interview with PC Perspective last year that AMD Fusion-style chip architecture is "almost a forgone conclusion" for the future of computing.

 

A Sony rep declined to comment on this story, citing the company's policy not to comment on rumors and speculation.

 

...goddamit sony; do not test me on this. i bought too much this gen to have it sit there - i know you want a lighter/easier to program for system that's less expensive, but offer me an option (pricier BC model again or even a fucking dongle, i don't care). it's not like you can afford to not have 100% backwards compatibility with your PSN shit anyway.

[Thelogan]

Is Microsoft making a head-mounted display for the next Xbox?

 

 

 

While largely still an idea reserved for science fiction or the military, we've run across a number of head-mounted video displays in the recent past, and it looks like Microsoft has been working on one of its own since September 2010, possibly for the Xbox 360's successor.

 

 

Patent Bolt has discovered a patent application submitted by Microsoft, revealing what clearly looks to be tech for a wearable, semi-transparent display that could potentially be used for gaming applications.

The result of such technology would either be the ability to view the entire gaming space from the glasses, or to view game-related content like a HUD. In this instance, the glasses would be able to project a 16:9 image that would appear like a 21-inch television at arm's length.

 

The company is obviously involved with a number of projects, so this design can be destined for a variety of products, although with the imminent announcement of the next Xbox within the next couple of years it wouldn't be too far fetched to think that Microsoft has plans to take gaming to yet another level.

 

Kinda doubt this will be something a system is built around, that's almost a Nintendo level of gimmicky. Then again, Nintendo gimmickry has been responsible for smashing the sales of every other console, and Kinect sold like gangbusters.

 

I dunno. I see this as maybe being an optional peripheral at some point, if they didn't just file the patent because it's a good idea to file patents on everything.

[The NZA]

goddamn this year's E3 pregame is loaded. Kotaku's PS4 rumors:

 

While the official reveal of Sony's next home console could still be months away, if not longer, Kotaku has today learned some important details concerning the PlayStation 3's successor.

 

For one, the console's name—or at least its codename/working title—is apparently Orbis. And it's being planned for release in time for the 2013 holiday season.

 

The details in this story come from a reliable source who is not authorized to talk publicly about next-gen hardware but has shared correct information with us before. What they're telling us in specifics matches much of what we've heard and reported in generalities in recent weeks.

 

CURRENT SPECS

 

Our main source supplied some basic specs for the console, but as the future is always in motion, bear in mind these could easily change between now and the Orbis' retail release. Still, if you'd like to know what developers are being told to plan for now, here you go.

 

AMD x64 CPU

AMD Southern Islands GPU

 

The former, that's largely something we've heard before, but the latter is interesting. That's the name given to many of AMD's 2012 roster of high-end PC cards. The PS4's GPU in particular, we're told, will be capable of displaying Orbis games at a resolution of up to 4096x2160, which is far in excess of the needs of most current HDTV sets. It'll also be capable of playing 3D games in 1080p (the PS3 could only safely manage 3D at 720p).

 

summary

-no BC with Ps3

- http://orbis.scedev.net/ exists

-AMD 2012 GPU with up to 4k resolution for games. AMD Southern Islands GPU http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Souther...ds_(GPU_family)

-AMD x64 CPU

- anti used game system like PC games with always online DRM.

 

"If you buy the disc, it must be locked to a single PSN account, after which you can play the game, save the whole thing to your HDD, or peg it as "downloaded" in your account history and be free to download it at a later date."

"it's believed used games will be limited to a trial mode or some other form of content restriction, with consumers having to pay a fee to unlock/register the full game."

 

the large print giveth, the small print taketh away

GPU rumor yay! BC = WTF

i understand it's not uncommon for modern hardware to bring anti-used game rumors, but now we're hearing them on both platforms, and this one in particular outlines a system that strikes me as possible and not entirely unlike the online pass system we've been seeing.

there's going to be long, detailed business/analyst reports in the near future about how short-sighted these practices would be in terms of software attachment rates, i think.

[Mortiis558]

So the PS4 will be more powerful than the 720?

 

Is that like how even though the ps3 is more powerful than the 360, the 360 has more games in 1080p, and there is really no difference in visual quality or load times between the two?

 

Way to go Sony! Lose even more money by putting in better equipment and then don't take advantage of that in any meaningful way.

 

Also will this generation truly be the last gen that lets us play USED games?? I want to see how bad not being able to play used games fucks the console industry. I mean if they thought the backlash from DRM was bad, this is going to be a clusterfuck of EPIC proportions. Also I will NOT buy a console if I can't play used games.