Keth Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 Man, I think y'all are being crazy harsh on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newtype Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 I love this movie. I love how it recontextualizes the mythos. The Ren/Rey fight. Luke going out the way he did. Yoda. Rey being a nobody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted December 17, 2017 Share Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) I'm glad you enjoyed it, Newt, but to not even admit it was flawed seems disingenuous. Maybe I'm being overly critical, but based on what was promised in TFA vs what was delivered in TLJ, I don't think so. The out of place humor and lack of gravitas along with a silly plot device aside, I'll focus on three key characters I felt TLJ let me down on... When it comes to Rey and Snoke, sure, I'll take on some of that disappointment as a fan. I chose to immerse myself in the fan theories and videos. No clear promises were ever made about Snoke, so his abrupt death w/out any fucking explanation of his origin is a bit on the fans. However, Lucas giving fans an entire trilogy of films on the origins of the Emperor, Darth Vader, and the Empire, would tend to lead fans to believe we'd get SOMETHING as to Snoke's origins in the films. No everything should have to be read in a book or experienced in a video game. Snoke is a key character and as such I don't think it was out of the realm of expectation to have some of his origin revealed in the films. Rey's lineage/parentage was a bigger let down on the filmmakers' parts in my opinion. We are led to believe as audience members that there is a connectivity to be expected amongst the key characters in a STAR WARS film. Some unexpected familial bond. Rey's parent's being "nobodies" and for Kylo Ren to use the meta dialogue, "You're nobody in this story," to Rey felt like a direct slap in the faces of fans. Already fan speculation of is Kylo lying has sprung up. I'm just tapped out and don't care anymore. And that's the worst thing a storyteller can do is to not make fans care about the characters. And we come to Luke. Where to even start? The unpasteurized blue milk? The inconsistencies in his words and actions, the inexplicable new powers, the dying from exhaustion? Yes, Luke Skywalker, last of the Jedi, died from exhaustion. *smh* Sure, Luke goes out in a way similar to Obi Wan in ANH, but for Luke it felt like such a hamfisted, clunky way. for him to exit. And I don't feel like we really ever got an explanation as to WHY the Jedi are meant to end. We're just supposed to accept that they are. Um, okay. So the heroes of the franchise for the last 40 years are now just some bullshit that needs to be replaced (with what exactly is left unclear) because Hermit Luke and Emo Ren say so? *sigh* And was it just me, or did Luke say he had "three lessons" to teach Rey but only got around to two? I'm gonna have to watch it again to better process it all, so maybe I missed that third lesson--and I'm still kind unclear what the first two lessons were, too. Oh, and force spirit Yoda can control lightning. Great. Have fun here, guys and gals. I'm deuces. And I'm not "quitting" Star Wars, I'm just done expecting anything worthwhile from it's films. (Dave Filoni and the animation division still have potential.) Star Wars is so engrained into my being that even though I know SOLO is going to be a dumpster fire, I'll still be there opening weekend. Ditto for Episode IX Return of The Abrams. But I think I'm done investing so much time, energy, and discussion into this franchise. At least I hope I am because I really don't want to be this disappointed in another SW film again. Edited December 17, 2017 by Mr. Hakujin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifter Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Spoiler Do we at least find out who or why Rey was left at Jakku? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keth Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Let's be real. We don't know anything about Palpatine either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalHeart Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, Drifter said: Hide contents Do we at least find out who or why Rey was left at Jakku? Spoiler I could be wrong, but I thought at one point it was mentioned that her parents were gamblers, and sold her to pay off debt? Or something along those lines? Therefore, her parents were nothing, and she's "nothing". EDIT: They were drunks, not gamblers. Sold her for drinking money. Whoops! Sorry about that. Edited December 18, 2017 by MetalHeart Correction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Drifter said: Hide contents Do we at least find out who or why Rey was left at Jakku? Kinda. Maybe. Depends. 2 hours ago, Axels said: Hide contents Let's be real. We don't know anything about Palpatine either. Pshh. If we learned a quarter as much about Snoke as we already know about Palpatine then I'd have been a happy camper. Things we know about Snoke: 1. he's a badass force wielder 2. he's arrogant 3. he's dead Things we know about Palpatine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keth Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Yeah, but a majority of that stuff isn't anything we learn in the actual movies. Snoke was basically a mob boss (if his pimp ass gold robes weren't enough of a giveaway there). The Republic thought they had shit under control in 1-3. 4-6 the Empire has taken control, then crumbles. 7 & 8 so far, the Force Mafia decides it's a good time to take over, and some guy named Snoke just so happens to be really fucking good at this force stuff. Scares people into following him and gets whacked by his right hand man who he treated like dog shit. Bantha bing. Bantha boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newtype Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Mr. Hakujin said: Hide contents If we learned a quarter as much about Snoke as we already know about Palpatine then I'd have been a happy camper. Things we know about Snoke: 1. he's a badass force wielder 2. he's arrogant 3. he's dead Things we know about Palpatine. Things we knew about Palpatine in the OT: Boss Force wielder Arrogant and dead. We learn everything from the books. Funny how people tend to forget that part. Quote so his abrupt death w/out any fucking explanation of his origin is a bit on the fans. Not everything should have to be read in a book. I don't think it was out of the realm of expectation to have some of his origin revealed in the films. We didn't have an for explanation for Palpatine origin in the OT. (see above) We didn't have an for explanation on how Vader learned about luke in the OT. Funny how people tend to forget that part along with everything we know about the new canon comes from the books. Quote However, Lucas giving fans an entire trilogy of films on the origins of the Emperor, Darth Vader, and the Empire. The same trilogy that show just how stupid everyone was and contradict stuff said in the OT? That trilogy needs to be forgotten. Quote We are led to believe as audience members that there is a connectivity to be expected amongst the key characters in a STAR WARS film. Some unexpected familial bond. Good idea. Lets make every fucking jedi a skywalker. Not once in the movies did they teased she was a Skywalker or a Kenobi Not every Jedi or character has be connected. Deal with it and move on. Quote Rey's parent's being "nobodies" and for Kylo Ren to use the meta dialogue, "You're nobody in this story," to Rey felt like a direct slap in the faces of fans No it wasn't and see above. Quote the inexplicable new powers He could have learn that in the 30 year gap from the OT. Deal with it and move on. Quote the dying from exhaustion? Luke projects himself literally across the galaxy. I'm going to chalk that up as a major strain on his body due to his age. Quote Sure, Luke goes out in a way similar to Obi Wan in ANH, but for Luke it felt like such a hamfisted, clunky way. for him to exit. Your upset that he didn't go down fighting? His exit is literally a callback to ANH. Quote And I don't feel like we really ever got an explanation as to WHY the Jedi are meant to end. We did get one. Maybe you should pay attention to the movie next time. Quote So the heroes of the franchise for the last 40 years are now just some bullshit that needs to be replaced Everyone story from the OT has been told. Fucking get over it and move on. Edited December 18, 2017 by Newtype 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C_U_SPACECOWBOY Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 In regards to Luke dying from the exhaustion from his "Force Projection", there was some precedent set earlier in the film that "projections" could cause physical impact. During Rey and Kylo's force links (or as Panch brilliantly coined "Force Time") they did establish that there could be a physical evidence of the link on either end, with the water from the Achtoo ocean spray hitting Kylo in the face in one scene (I have a feeling they might have alluded to this in another of the scenes as well, but I don't recall). If we consider what Luke did at the end to be an amplified version of that communication, then perhaps his demise was not due to exhaustion, but from some kind of feedback reaction from getting cut with a lightsaber twice. Of course, he was also shot to hell by all those AT-M6s too....Look I'm not happy about it either way, it was just something I noticed during my viewing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatella Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Why do I keep coming into this thread? lol I appreciate the spoiler tags but I'm so torn on whether or not to catch this in a theater or not. I think NZA's leaning toward no but I could take my mom if I thought it wouldn't be a waste of money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keth Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I would not listen to anybody and just form your own opinion. Its such a 50/50 shot. I have a feeling this will be one of those that will be more appreciated later. (Didnt Empire get kind of cruddy reviews at first?) Of course, they may reverse whatever they did in this movie with the next so who knows. Either way, I recommend it just cause I'm curious what everyone thinks. Even if it is disappointing they aren't liking it as much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifter Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 What's the key to happiness? Lower expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Cap'n 2099 Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share Posted December 19, 2017 Just make sure you pee beforehand. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 20 hours ago, Newtype said: Hide contents Things we knew about Palpatine in the OT: Boss Force wielder Arrogant and dead. We learn everything from the books. Funny how people tend to forget that part. We didn't have an for explanation for Palpatine origin in the OT. (see above) We didn't have an for explanation on how Vader learned about luke in the OT. Funny how people tend to forget that part along with everything we know about the new canon comes from the books. The same trilogy that show just how stupid everyone was and contradict stuff said in the OT? That trilogy needs to be forgotten. Good idea. Lets make every fucking jedi a skywalker. Not once in the movies did they teased she was a Skywalker or a Kenobi Not every Jedi or character has be connected. Deal with it and move on. No it wasn't and see above. He could have learn that in the 30 year gap from the OT. Deal with it and move on. Luke projects himself literally across the galaxy. I'm going to chalk that up as a major strain on his body due to his age. Your upset that he didn't go down fighting? His exit is literally a callback to ANH. We did get one. Maybe you should pay attention to the movie next time. Everyone story from the OT has been told. Fucking get over it and move on. Damn, Gina! And someone actually upvoted that aggro, snipey shit? Yeesh. So much for fostering a more welcoming atmosphere at Hondo's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 donny we should see this in theater if we're gonna! there are so many spoiler tags i too cannot read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keth Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Da Cap'n 2099 said: Just make sure you pee beforehand. This is truth. The movie was way longer than I expected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Cap'n 2099 Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share Posted December 19, 2017 Way longer than it should be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newtype Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 12 hours ago, C_U_SPACECOWBOY said: Reveal hidden contents In regards to Luke dying from the exhaustion from his "Force Projection", there was some precedent set earlier in the film that "projections" could cause physical impact. During Rey and Kylo's force links (or as Panch brilliantly coined "Force Time") they did establish that there could be a physical evidence of the link on either end, with the water from the Achtoo ocean spray hitting Kylo in the face in one scene (I have a feeling they might have alluded to this in another of the scenes as well, but I don't recall). If we consider what Luke did at the end to be an amplified version of that communication, then perhaps his demise was not due to exhaustion, but from some kind of feedback reaction from getting cut with a lightsaber twice. Of course, he was also shot to hell by all those AT-M6s too....Look I'm not happy about it either way, it was just something I noticed during my viewing. About that: Rey and Kylo see eachother the first time he says; How are you doing this? The effort alone should kill you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Cap'n 2099 Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share Posted December 19, 2017 (edited) Snoke claims he was the "switchboardForce operator." Fucking all-powerful Sith Lord can connect folks on the other ends of the galaxy (and doesn't know where Rey and Luke are at) but can't sense Kylo spinning a Lightsaber that's sitting right next to him? Gtfoh. Edited December 20, 2017 by Da Cap'n 2099 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatella Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Was I just not paying attention during the early aughts or does there seem to be more outrage about this movie than the prequel trilogy? I mean those movies were almost unwatchably bad but I feel like I'm seeing people more vocally upset about this one. Is there just a higher bar now? Also I can totally understand what Panch said in the shoutbox. People are pretty let down but it's understandable given the length of the franchise and how much time/money people have invested. I've never loved anything that long. It's really something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 i get that too...but some of the fanbase was mad as hell when this new trilogy started & undid all the fanfic-y books that no one else read, like they'd had decades to just write their own later chapters and somehow assumed the franchise would one day follow suit. that's crazy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drifter Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 (edited) My wife explained her outrage to me... the prequels were bad and didn't add much, but they didn't take anything away from the original series either; seems these sequels are detracting from what people enjoyed about the original films. I've noticed that they are literally re-writing the meaning behind the actions of the original trilogy and are destroying the character development of the primary cast. She specifically ranted that "They went through too much shit for THAT to be their happily ever after." And keep in mind we haven't seen the latest one, this is just about The Force Awakens. I'm almost scared to take her to The Last Jedi. Edited December 19, 2017 by Drifter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donatella Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 Oh wow. Ok that makes total sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keth Posted December 19, 2017 Share Posted December 19, 2017 I haven't seen a movie this divisive in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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