First-Person Shooters

[Jables]

Goddamnit you fuckers are overthinking this by a long shot.

 

Dear Haytor

 

Shooters iz funz. I liek dem becos I don't aspect a fully immersiv experiance, becos if I did, Ited bee becos I'm 2 big a puzzy to go and shoot the peeple who bullie me in skool and I'm jus takng my passiv-argessiv rage out on a tv instead of gettin over it.

 

Luv,

 

Sam Rockwell.

[Iambaytor]

Goddamnit you fuckers are overthinking this by a long shot.

 

Dear Haytor

 

Shooters iz funz. I liek dem becos I don't aspect a fully immersiv experiance, becos if I did, Ited bee becos I'm 2 big a puzzy to go and shoot the peeple who bullie me in skool and I'm jus takng my passiv-argessiv rage out on a tv instead of gettin over it.

 

Luv,

 

Sam Rockwell.

 

People used to say the same thing about platformers.

 

Then play Doom. It's simple, it's unintelligent, and you don't have to think at all. Plus it's got the scariez and you can blow things up, I would say it would cause you to poop yourself but chances are you've already done that. Good day!

[bishopcruz]

Really the only shooter Milestones are:

 

Wolfenstein 3D - Practically invented it

Doom - More variety of enemies, and the ability to jump/fall

Duke Nukem 3D - 3D

Half-Life - Deep involved Storyline

Unreal Tournament - Multiplayer (Goldeneye and Quake enthusiasts can suck my left and right nut respectively, Unreal did it better)

Rainbow Six - Squad Based

 

Quake, Heretic, and Hexen were just improvements on the Doom game engine in much the same way as Blood and Shadow Warrior were improvements on the Duke Nukem 3D engine.

 

Whoa there, you need to learn your history young one. While Heretic and Hexen were indeed imporvements over the Doom Engine, Quake was the first major Fully 3D FPS. It was a completely different engine. Also Duke Nukem 3d, as awesome as it was only a little more advanced than the Doom engine. In fact the most advanced 3d engine until Quake was the engine used by System Shock and Ultima Underworld. The environments in those games were actually completely 3d, something that the Doom Engine could never pull off, and the Build engine could not achieve until its Shadow Warrior version.

 

Golden Eye is one of the most over-rated games of all time (Yes, multi-player is fun but Unreal Tournament did it a whole lot better, learn to accept this)

 

Agreed, though I think you are ignoring what QuakeWorld and Quake 2 did for PC online gaming. UT added a LOT, and was badass as hell, but it was nowhere near as influential as those early quake builds.

 

Portal and Metroid Prime have added platforming elements to the genre and System Shock and Bioshock have added RPG elements. I'm still hard pressed to find a better overall package than Half-Life.

 

Debateable, Half Life 1 and 2 I think have vastly overrated stories, in fact I don't think HL2 REALLY gets compelling until EP2 (story wise.) HL1's story was ok at best. System Shock 1 was doing a deep story in a shooter/RPG long before Half Life did. Half Life was just a LOT more popular.

 

I also think that you are ignoring some of the major advances that the Halo and Call of Duty franchises have brought to shooters. Halo had unparalleled AI and Outdoor areas, and vehicles that weren't matched at all that generation, and Call of Duty did war better than anyone else. Battlefield 1942 is also deserving of mention for bringing huge multiplayer sessions into vogue, and Planetside deserves mention for being the first MMO shooter.

[Iambaytor]

Whoa there, you need to learn your history young one. While Heretic and Hexen were indeed imporvements over the Doom Engine, Quake was the first major Fully 3D FPS. It was a completely different engine. Also Duke Nukem 3d, as awesome as it was only a little more advanced than the Doom engine. In fact the most advanced 3d engine until Quake was the engine used by System Shock and Ultima Underworld. The environments in those games were actually completely 3d, something that the Doom Engine could never pull off, and the Build engine could not achieve until its Shadow Warrior version.

Agreed, though I think you are ignoring what QuakeWorld and Quake 2 did for PC online gaming. UT added a LOT, and was badass as hell, but it was nowhere near as influential as those early quake builds.

Debateable, Half Life 1 and 2 I think have vastly overrated stories, in fact I don't think HL2 REALLY gets compelling until EP2 (story wise.) HL1's story was ok at best. System Shock 1 was doing a deep story in a shooter/RPG long before Half Life did. Half Life was just a LOT more popular.

 

I also think that you are ignoring some of the major advances that the Halo and Call of Duty franchises have brought to shooters. Halo had unparalleled AI and Outdoor areas, and vehicles that weren't matched at all that generation, and Call of Duty did war better than anyone else. Battlefield 1942 is also deserving of mention for bringing huge multiplayer sessions into vogue, and Planetside deserves mention for being the first MMO shooter.

 

Okay I admit messing up with the Quake thing. I hadn't played the game in ages and didn't remember anything terribly special about it (though in 1998 when I last played it that shit was still practically top of the line) As for the online multiplayer I echo your comment on Half-Life's story. It wasn't better, it was just more popular. I remember having tons of fun playing multiplayer on Rise of the Triad and Unreal Tournament, I remember cursing aloud whilst people bunny-hopped about the screen in Quake (granted I came in on the tail end of that one which is kind of like coming in on Counter Strike now)

 

And yeah I didn't mean to downplay System Shock 2's storyline (System Shock 1 was kinda meh) but the game was still pretty sparse. Half-Life gave me story (true, it wasn't the best but maybe I just liked it so much cause I'm a fan of the story it was based on), innovative game play, the best AI I have seen (can't speak for Call of Duty but I know I've never had an enemy in Halo pick up a grenade and throw it back at me or spread out in a flank attack pattern. Sure they dodge bullets a whole lot better than Imps and Pinky Demons but when it all comes down to it they still pretty much run at you guns blazing)

 

Also I guess I just don't see the magic in 150 racist 12-year-olds as apposed to the allotted 8-10. I have a hard enough time finding 4 people online that aren't douchebags. And Planetside while innovative isn't so much good, to butcher a Yahzee quote it alienates fans of both FPS and MMO genres.

[bishopcruz]

Okay I admit messing up with the Quake thing. I hadn't played the game in ages and didn't remember anything terribly special about it (though in 1998 when I last played it that shit was still practically top of the line) As for the online multiplayer I echo your comment on Half-Life's story. It wasn't better, it was just more popular. I remember having tons of fun playing multiplayer on Rise of the Triad and Unreal Tournament, I remember cursing aloud whilst people bunny-hopped about the screen in Quake (granted I came in on the tail end of that one which is kind of like coming in on Counter Strike now)

 

Yeah, but it was the first major game that also allowed easy internet play. Of course at the time, easy play meant looking online for a list of servers and typing their IPs in by hand, but it was hella easier than trying to call a BBS or do DWANGo or shit like that. Quakeworld did it much better, adn still has one of the best network code I have ever seen. Shit played smooth with 16 players on a modem. Props.

 

I doubt I had more fun in a multiplayer FPS as I did in Duke 3D though.

 

And yeah I didn't mean to downplay System Shock 2's storyline (System Shock 1 was kinda meh) but the game was still pretty sparse. Half-Life gave me story (true, it wasn't the best but maybe I just liked it so much cause I'm a fan of the story it was based on), innovative game play, the best AI I have seen (can't speak for Call of Duty but I know I've never had an enemy in Halo pick up a grenade and throw it back at me or spread out in a flank attack pattern. Sure they dodge bullets a whole lot better than Imps and Pinky Demons but when it all comes down to it they still pretty much run at you guns blazing)

 

Really? Outside of the grenade throwing, shit like that happens ALL THE TIME. The Elites are some evil motherfuckers, they go for cover fuck with you and shit like that, by Halo 3 they had pack mentality, and other crazy shit like that. CoD I wasn't singling out for the AI, but more for the first game to really capture the feeling of being in an actual War. HL1 did have AWESOME AI though, I was disappointed in HL2s AI because it was nowhere near as good.

 

 

Also I guess I just don't see the magic in 150 racist 12-year-olds as apposed to the allotted 8-10. I have a hard enough time finding 4 people online that aren't douchebags. And Planetside while innovative isn't so much good, to butcher a Yahzee quote it alienates fans of both FPS and MMO genres.

 

A good huge game can be a blast, you just need a team that can work well together.

[the division of joy]

I think, in my opinion, HL1 is probably the best FPS, mostly because of what it did for the genre itself, it was action with a storyline as an affront, rather than an afterthought. Graphically it was excellent too for a late 90's game. I really can't find much fault with it. That too, it brought the glorious art of Crowbar-Fu to the masses.

Edited September 4, 2008 by the division of joy

[Iambaytor]

Really? Outside of the grenade throwing, shit like that happens ALL THE TIME. The Elites are some evil motherfuckers, they go for cover fuck with you and shit like that, by Halo 3 they had pack mentality, and other crazy shit like that. CoD I wasn't singling out for the AI, but more for the first game to really capture the feeling of being in an actual War. HL1 did have AWESOME AI though, I was disappointed in HL2s AI because it was nowhere near as good.

 

Eh they made up for it by making Hunters stupid-hard to kill and far too smart for their own good.

[Iambaytor]

A perfect example of why first-person shooter characters shouldn't talk.

[The NZA]

oh, that's not a fair comparison! any 90's comic of a game wouldve sucked!

but while were on the topic, you should check this out.

[Iambaytor]

oh, that's not a fair comparison! any 90's comic of a game wouldve sucked!

but while were on the topic, you should check this out.

 

Make your excuses, Master Chief sounds like that half the time.

 

Okay, I know where I can get a Robocop costume with working voicebox and robotic noises when you move the limbs, you buy this and we'll dress in costume and have a lightsaber duel with stale french bread in a public place. Sound like a plan.

[Yahve]

"Hexen uses a modified version of the Doom engine, which allows jumping, network play with up to 8 players and the choice of three character classes. It also popularized the "hub system" of level progression in the genre of first-person shooter games."

 

D'oh. I was thinking about the hexen2 heretic2 games. My bad.

[Iambaytor]

Heretic 2 was Quake engine? I always thought it was just a gutted Tomb Raider clone.

[The NZA]

so, i never did get to play the original Half Life, which may be ok, since the fan-made remake of Black Mesa looks like its coming along nicely.

 

 

 

lets hope Valve gives these kids jobs, instead of doing like square/nintendo/etc and just send them the cease & desist letter.

[Iambaytor]

God at the end when the Garg roars at the camera I quiver with sheer orgasmic joy. That had better be a returning monster in Episode 3...

 

Considering Team Fortress and Counter Strike were borne of Half-Life mods, I have a feeling they won't be dicks and sue. Besides this thing's been in production for 3 years now and not very secretly and since from what I've seen Valve employees spend more time surfing the net than coding games (Both Yahtzee Croshaw and Jeph Jacques of Questionable Content have gotten fan mail from the heads of the team) I'm pretty sure they know about it.

Edited December 2, 2008 by Iambaytor

[the division of joy]

I still can't get over that you haven't played HL1 nick. Thats pretty poor, tbf.

[The NZA]

eh. its a pc shooter that had the misfortune of coming out around when square was knocking shit out of the park, and the PS1 had more going on than i could keep up with during college. no loss, i got Orange Box and apparently a remake onna way, just a shame that Dreamcast port never (officially) came through.

 

and yeah baytor, good points. i just wish more console companies thought like that; im playing Chrono Trigger on my DS this week wondering why that 3D fan thing, Chrono Resurrection, got shutdown when no one else seems to be doing it that way. its amazing the Metroid games come along as far as they do; if i were a dev, id be honored to see tribute remakes done 10 years later.

[Iambaytor]

Yeah there's been 3 or 4 Chrono fan projects coming out and even a 2-D Kingdom Hearts fan deal complete with a Chrono Trigger world that all got cease and desist letters.

[Losifer]

I still can't get over that you haven't played HL1 nick. Thats pretty poor, tbf.

 

I think I can up the ante on that. Get this, I OWN the entire Half-Life collection (not pirated, bought it at Wal-Mart for $15) and and I only played 20 minutes of the first game (I also own HL2 as well, I only put about 2 hours into that one). I never got into it or counter strike. Some say it's sad, but I was having fun with the original Unreal Tournament...then its subsequent sequels.

*takes cover*

[DKS01]

I like the Rainbow Six games. I hate sci-fi shooters, they just don't interest me, this is why the Unreal, Half Life, Doom, Quake, Halo, etc games will never make my favorites list.

 

Likewise, I like modern shooters, so WW2 games like the Medal of Honor games and such don't appeal to me either.

[crimsonfire]

I think I can up the ante on that. Get this, I OWN the entire Half-Life collection (not pirated, bought it at Wal-Mart for $15) and and I only played 20 minutes of the first game (I also own HL2 as well, I only put about 2 hours into that one). I never got into it or counter strike. Some say it's sad, but I was having fun with the original Unreal Tournament...then its subsequent sequels.

*takes cover*

 

The original UT rocks the shit. I still play it to this day. Counterstrike LAN games were fun back in the day. I went with Unreal though (assuming it includes UT).

[the division of joy]

I think I can up the ante on that. Get this, I OWN the entire Half-Life collection (not pirated, bought it at Wal-Mart for $15) and and I only played 20 minutes of the first game (I also own HL2 as well, I only put about 2 hours into that one). I never got into it or counter strike. Some say it's sad, but I was having fun with the original Unreal Tournament...then its subsequent sequels.

*takes cover*

[gunsmithx]

I'm confused as you can consider anything other then wolf 3-d to be the mother of fps's unless you can some up with something older but that was the first real fps I can remember, doom took it a step futher and HL1 was the birth of the modern story driven fps's.

[Jables]

Wolfenstien had everything. Wait, didn't you care about killing lego nazis?

[The NZA]

I'm confused as you can consider anything other then wolf 3-d to be the mother of fps's unless you can some up with something older but that was the first real fps I can remember, doom took it a step futher and HL1 was the birth of the modern story driven fps's.

 

FPS have story? non-bioshock ones? you're certain of this?

 

ps DoJ, we gotta retire that image soon, man.

[Iambaytor]

Wait... Doom had a story? I distinctly remember that at the end of the first game you were told that you had finally gotten revenge for your dead pet rabbit!

 

I think Unreal was the first FPS to have a real actual story, Doom and Quake just pretended to. Though maybe Heretic and Blood beat them to it, but then again nobody remembers Blood.