The NZA Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 yup, there was the full-fledged Chuck Norris meme bat-fan post i was waitin on 1) baytor said we shouldn't only count garbage stories, and Wolvy's often moved tactically. i'm not sure what you make of teachers, but he runs a school now. 2) no, that woudlnt kill him. also, bats doesnt kill, another reason he'd lose. "he'll find a way because he's batman!" is really the kind've answer that makes him a lesser character these days. at least baytor had some comic examples (though putting Ra's on logan's level made no sense, and i admit i don't know much about the other guy). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 (though putting Ra's on logan's level made no sense, and i admit i don't know much about the other guy). It's a legit comparison. I've never thought of it before, but yeah. He doesn't have a metal skeleton, but he is actually immortal, instead of just essentially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 he still swings on a human, not metahuman, weight class. he has smarts, money and weapons, so he's a poor man's stark in this fight, but with access to a deus-ex pits. but him before he reaches back to one, he dies. again, wolvy gets his heart ripped out a few times, burned/napalmed, all manner of building collapse/etc, and is quickly continuing the fight. it's legit, but it's really not that great. a great number of the mouse-traps batman is apparently fighting with here that might work on Ra's likely won't on him. ps you only haven't voted yet because you're afraid to admit the awesome character of your namesake has this in the bag. it's okay to be mainstream, man. let go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 You're the one that knocked me for not taking brains into account enough in the AvX thread. Wolverine is definitely no dummy, but Bruce is a tactical genius with a variety of odds-evening tools always on his person. Seems like that should count for something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 it does (likewise does the improvisation of being a century-old warrior with a bodycount higher than most conquerors), but here is where every fight batman is involved in that is above his pay grade falls apart: they all devolve into "prep-time" arguments, where if a) infinite time to get my mouse traps ready and b) frank miller writing are both present, bats can somehow beat a god. if they meet in a park and decide to go at it, nothing in that belt does more than buy time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Right. There are multiple things that can temporarily incapacitate Wolverine, and the Batman just leaves. Once he leaves and he knows you, you're totally fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 heh - i hate abiding even that though, cause it feels like the same copout i called bishop on in his silly batman vs cap argument: "yeah okay, cap'd win but bats would come back later with anti-super-soldier serum or something and get him in round 2!" congrats on your meme there, hold this L. BUT WAIT! this thread says TO THE DEATH! , so uh...doesn't batman lose no matter what then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 BUT WAIT! this thread says TO THE DEATH! , so uh...doesn't batman lose no matter what then? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keth Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 For the purposes of a proper duel sir, I say sir, let's allow Mistah Wayne to oblige his more sinister appetites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 that must be why you voted for him then, huh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Locked in a room, to the death, different story. Batman probably wouldn't figure out a way to kill Wolverine in time, and Wolvie's going to be trying to finish the job as quickly as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 SMH @ 4 wrong people so far: baytor's doing his thing, haku doesn't read comics, bish prolly thinks batman can handle galactus with prep time (he's one of those fans), logan i just don't know. i thought we'd come so far, people. anyway, turns out they'd both lose to Popeye. -Popeye once lifted the earth in one of the Fleischer shorts that was spoofing Greek Mythology. -He dog paddled an island that both he and Olive Oyl were stranded on back to the mainland. -With a lasso, he pulled the Grand Canyon together just so he could reach Bluto on the other side -He knocked a comet that would have destroyed the earth into tiny bits. -He punched Bluto so hard, Bluto hit the full moon, which was blown apart so that only a crescent was left -He pulled the moon closer to earth -He stopped a martian invasion by punching the fleet all the way back to Mars. - He pulled the world's continents back together again with only a lasso. -He knocked Bluto so hard, Bluto broke through the time stream and deaged into an infant -He knocked Bluto so hard, he destroyed the constellations and altered the night sky. -He lassoed the sun and pulled it up just so the morning would come quicker. -He blew the sun out like a candle so he could get some private time with Olive Oyl. -In an episode spoofing Exodus where he played Moses, he got tired of waiting for God and parted the Red Sea himself. -He becomes a master of any discipline after taking spinach. He led a twenty man band, where he was the band himself, became a master musician, master sculptor, brilliant scientist, and a master magician. -Taking spinach renders him immune to magic. Bluto once tried to turn him into a frog, but he punched the spell back at Bluto. Also Zeus tried to zap Popeye with a lightning bolt, but Popeye punched it back at him, thus defeating Zeus by frying him. -Popeye can ressurect himself from the dead with spinach. His nephews force fed some to his lifeless body. Popeye's soul returned to his body, which got up and proceeded to beat the crap out of Bluto. -Popeye resisted being wiped out of existence by an animator. His pipe was fed spinach, Popeye willed himself back, and then he beat up the animator. Which brings me to... -Popeye can break the 4th wall. A real boy in the movie audience threw some spinach into the screen to Popeye. Popeye got up and hit Bluto so hard, Bluto was knocked into the real world. So Superboy Prime's not the only one punching holes into reality. Hmmm, I wonder if the explains the discrepancy between Bluto and Brutus. -Popeye can resist mind control after eating spinach. An evil hypnotist hypnotized Popeye into thinking he was a chicken. Popeye ate some spinach, snapped out of it, and then counter hypnotized the hypnotist into thinking he was a baby. -Popeye once ate an entire field of spinach to repel a Martian Invasion. He punched through a Martian disentegration beam, grabbed a flying saucer, threw it like a frisbee, and made it ricochet off the entire Martian invasion fleet like a pin ball. After all the Martian ships crashed, the ensuing explosion spelled the word "TILT" across the skyline. -Popeye has ran down Bluto, on foot, while Bluto was speeding away in a racecar in an attempt to kidnap Olive Oyl. -Popeye has ran down, and ran past (on numerous occasions), a speeding locomotive to save Olive Oyl, who was tied to the tracks, from being ran over. On one occasion, rather than untying her, he punched the speeding train and turned it into a pipe organ. -Popeye singlehandedly laid track for a speeding train and punched through mountains to make tunnels for the train so that it could get to it's destination near the coal mines. -Popeye has leaped into the air and punched out fighter jets in mid flight. -Popeye can fly like a fighter jet by spinning his pipe like a propelor and sticking out his arms like wings. When provoked, Popeye can use his pipe as a jet engine propelling himself through the air at mach speeds, even launching himself into space. Popeye can also survive re-entry and falls from sub-orbital heights. -Popeye has punched fast enough to deflect hundreds of rounds of machine gun fire at close range with his bare fists. -Popeye has chewed up steel beams and spit the metal out as bullets, nails, and rivets. -Popeye on numerous occasions has punched people and accompanying objects into cages, cabins, tents, tepees, stuffed animals, toys, etc. On one occasion Popeye was attacked by a Giant Octopuss while he was diving for pearls. Popeye punched the octopuss and turned it into a Merry-Go-Round. - During WWII, Popeye punched out a fleet of German battleships into individual cages to imprison over 100 Nazi soldiers. Popeye also punched through the gunfire of 10 Nazi fighter jets, in mid air, and punched the planes to splinters that formed a fence and imprisoned the pilots as they landed with their parachutes. He also got a medal of honor from Eisenhower. -During WW II Popeye once turned out all the lights in his hometown for a bomb raid in a matter of seconds. -Popeye once punched an enraged Giant King Kong-esque Gorilla into 3 separate monkeys, each covering their ears, eyes, and mouth (hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil) respectively. -Popeye punched out a giant Moby Dick-esque sperm whale and held it in one hand like a baby as it was dazed. -Popeye once punched a mountain into a hill because it was blocking his view. -Popeye once lifted up and bodyslammed the 40 story building Olive Oyl's apartment was in so that her floor was at street level and he could move her piano in. -Popeye once walked a tight rope while carrying a refrigerator, a wardrobe, a bathtub, a baby in a baby carriage, Olive Oil, and Wimpy (eating a burger). -Popeye once punched through super hypnosis vision from a Persian Magician, then punched the guy and his flying carpet turning them into a bazaar with rugs for sale. -While in Old Russia, Popeye punched through hypnosis vision and spells cast by Rasputin, then Popeye proceded to punch Rasputin through the Kremlin which formed a jail around Rasputin. -Popeye once punched through magic spell bolts cast at him by a Genie Bluto had used to grant him three wishes. Popeye then punched out Bluto and punched the Genie back into the lamp before tossing the lamp into the horizon. -Popeye survived having a battle ship dropped on him by Bluto. -Popeye survived being shot point blank in the face with a cannonball by Pirate Blackbeard. -Popeye survived being ran over and point blank cannon fire from a Sherman tank, and then proceded to punch the tank into an oven and water heater. -In Egypt Popeye once punched a Mummy into bedsheets hanging from a clothesline (there was no clothesline before the punch). -Popeye has punched aligators, dinosaurs, and mad bulls into full sets of leather luggage. -Popeye has punched a lion into a leopard skin fur coat. (and no, that's not a typo, he punched a lion into leopard skin). -Popeye punched out a fire breathing dragon. -Popeye as a lumberjack chopped down a whole state full of redwood trees with his bare fists. -Popeye once jumped up and punched the man in the moon in the eye after Olive Oyl snubbed him for Bluto and the moon was laughing at his misfortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopcruz Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 (edited) Three words: GIANT BAT MAGNET. Bats is home in time for tea. "he'll find a way because he's batman!" is really the kind've answer that makes him a lesser character these days. at least baytor had some comic examples (though putting Ra's on logan's level made no sense, and i admit i don't know much about the other guy). Ra's is about 500 years older than Logan, and extremely well skilled. Then there is Vandal Savage, a literally immortal guy who has been around for 50,000 years so yeah, Vandal's body count beats Wolvie's by a lot. it does (likewise does the improvisation of being a century-old warrior with a bodycount higher than most conquerors), but here is where every fight batman is involved in that is above his pay grade falls apart: they all devolve into "prep-time" arguments, where if a) infinite time to get my mouse traps ready and b) frank miller writing are both present, bats can somehow beat a god. if they meet in a park and decide to go at it, nothing in that belt does more than buy time. Back again with this pay grade crap. Batman has been a Justice League member for pretty much ever, and he's so badass they don't even bother calling him unless shit is REALLY bad. Your boy didn't rate being on the Avengers until Marvel needed to boost sales. Batman killed Darkseid, he's faced hordes of ridiculous shit, beaten people like Bain and Clayface on a regular fucking basis, has fought a dude with ridiculous skills and a healing factor, Deathstroke. He's also fought and beaten Hulk like creatures (Solomon Grundy.) fought off alien invasions and the like. His 'pay grade' has always been the top teir of the DCU, and to act otherwise is to short sell him. Probably because you hate rich people. And before anyone gets in on how wrong I am, after the last 'Batman vs.' debate I learned something. You taught me just how badass Captain America is. Cap is an uber strong tactical genius who takes no prisoners and is the top teir of the Marvel U. Cap can, and did beat Wolverine. And since Bats can beat Cap handily of course he can make Logan cry like a little girl. /thread Yep, that should give Nick an aneurism. Edited May 11, 2012 by bishopcruz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 oh wow please say this was actually a gunsmith post Ra's is about 500 years older than Logan, and extremely well skilled. Then there is Vandal Savage, a literally immortal guy who has been around for 50,000 years so yeah, Vandal's body count beats Wolvie's by a lot. i just wanted to point out the "badass killing machine" you and baytor were propping up back there. the one who got beat by catman driving a truck into him once. thanks for coming out, though! match: blouses shirts Back again with this pay grade crap i know! it's frustrating when a comics universe has power levels, fucks lazy deus ex-ing right up. Batman has been a Justice League member for pretty much ever, and he's so badass they don't even bother calling him unless shit is REALLY bad. Your boy didn't rate being on the Avengers until Marvel needed to boost sales oh, i didn't know this was a popularity contest. because is on like 3 or 4 teams and runs a school, while your boy can't even keep his city safe. Batman killed Darkseid admittedly, pulling a trigger when you've never done it before is probably tough. he's faced hordes of ridiculous shit, beaten people like Bain and Clayface on a regular fucking basis, has fought a dude with ridiculous skills and a healing factor, Deathstroke. b-class villains at best, with the exception of Deathstroke who's handled the JLA before. way above bats' level if properly written. He's also fought and beaten Hulk like creatures (Solomon Grundy.) fought off alien invasions and the like. His 'pay grade' has always been the top teir of the DCU, and to act otherwise is to short sell him. you know who's actually fought and beaten the Hulk? yeah. his resume is good, he's still out of his league though. you should really learn to respect lanes: i'm a fan of daredevil, moon knight etc but i'd not put them up against marvel's cosmic side, for instance. And before anyone gets in on how wrong I am, after the last 'Batman vs.' debate I learned something. You taught me just how badass Captain America is. Cap is an uber strong tactical genius who takes no prisoners and is the top teir of the Marvel U. Cap can, and did beat Wolverine. And since Bats can beat Cap handily of course he can make Logan cry like a little girl. i know you understand double negatives, but being wrong twice in a paragraph doesn't fix it: 1) Cap beats Bats, comic writers know this, you should. it's a good fight though. 2) When did you see Cap beat Wolverine again? please don't let Joel see this, you're obviously not reading Avengers vs X-Men. Yep, that should give Nick an aneurism. i don't know if disappointment can cause those, but there's a first for everything, my friend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visitant Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Bishop pretty much stole my reply here: Boom. Done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 yeah, bats carries a 2-ton magnet on him, so that's not a dumb comment! stuff bats actually carries - gasses, tasers, etc - won't work though. for real though, durability and the upper limits of strength are what separate these two, because i cant see bats even really hurting him in a way that resonates, much less stops him. bish was applying the "if he can beat (x), he can beat him" which i don't think is really solid when you look at strengths & weaknesses - for instance, baytor's oddly siding with bats but i wanna say he's said in the past that Panther could take him. while Wolvy could handle Panther, that alone wouldn't make him ideal for the fight, but lots of other things do. Bane broke Batman. Reaper's beaten him, Croc gives him a run for his money, hell there have been times he's barely handled too large a group of ninjas, where one of my favorite older issues has bone-claw wolvy beating a 3-story building packed with hundreds of ninjas..granted, i think his healing factor was insane at that point but there's recent stories (like when he's been nuked, or Nitro melting him down to bone) where it's nearly at that level. I mean, Deadpool has the peak of that, and even he hasn't beaten wolvy. Skill-wise, bats knows more arts. I think Iron Fist, Shang-Chi (speaking of, Zaran is a master one tier below that logan beat while poisoned in a martial arts battle) and the like are top-tier of marvel skill, but Cap sitting on top...but again, in a battle to the death, you're gonna bet against a guy who's been killing forever now (samurai, CIA, Wewapon X, Spanish-American War, WWI/II, Vietnam, ninja genocide, beheaded his archnemesis, etc)? wolvy's faster, stronger, infinitely more durable and arguably a better fighter. unless you want the caveat that this is now a scheduled death match a month in the future, this doesn't even seem close, where the Cap one had more room for debate. he beat lobo too god that was right up there with him knocking out the Thing in one hit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 in the interest of fairness, i did some reading on bats - how has he damaged/hurt superman, or supergirl, in the past? without kryptonite, as that's a moot point here. the answer (with supergirl) seemed to be some incredibly powerful flashbang grenades, which frankly if they fucked her up, he's really gonna feel them. this leaves out 2 things though: 1) he'd have to have one on him, and get it out before being eviscerated 2) while it'd likely knock him out, again, he's healed from worse rather quickly. can bats kill him during this small window? pertinent to 1, i looked up what bats' standard gear in the utility belt is, and this was what i got: Elements of the utility belt at times include, but are not limited to, the following: Batarangs : Batman's version of the Shuriken. They have often been more closely identified with boomerangs. Bat-bolas : This weapon is thrown around the feet of Batman's enemies and ties them with a thin rope. Then, with the push of a button in Batman's glove it can cause an electro shock. Bat-cuffs : Bat shaped handcuffs, resembling Special Forces handcuffs. Using a one-piece design they slide closed and have to be cut off, using a special tool given to the Gotham PD. Communications device : Often an earbug, but sometimes handheld. First aid kit : For minor injuries. A larger kit is stored in most vehicles. Forensics kit : For impromptu examinations of crime scenes. A larger, more comprehensive one is in the Batmobile. Gas mask : Protection against air-toxins (i.e. the Scarecrow's Fear Gas). Depending on the writer and/or artist, it may also be incorporated with a rebreather. Goo gun : This elegant weapon fires an adhesive-like substance that delivers small electrical impacts to its victim. Grappling hook : Used to attach a line in order to scale sheer surfaces and/or swing across gaps. Infrared goggles : Using infrared technology to see thermal output in low/no-light situations. Kryptonite ring : Stored in a lead box, for use against Superman and other Kryptonians should the need ever arise. Laser torch : A strong miniaturized laser used as a cutting tool. Oxy-acetylene torch: The laser torch's predecessor Line gun : Similar to a grappling hook, the line gun uses a strong clamp attached to a line, for scaling surfaces and/or traversing gaps. It can be recovered by releasing the clamp and rewinding the cable. Lock picks - Sometimes stored in one of his gloves instead. Micro camera Miniature smoke grenades Miniaturized toolkit Radar: In the buckle, it emits invisible radar waves. Batman used it to confuse Man-Bat's natural radar at night in Batman comics. [Note: It is possible that it was originally part of Batman's bat theme that was phased out over time, as bats 'see' by radar sense.] Rebreather : Allows Batman to breathe underwater or in vacuum. Depending on the writer and/or artist, it may also be incorporated with a gas mask. Remote control : Used to control the Batmobile and other vehicles. Smoke pellets: Usually used to quickly provide cover for Batman to stealthly exits and entries. Stun (Flash-Bang) grenades: Emits light to blind and stun enemies. Taser Thermate grenades (Although they are identified as Thermite grenades it is safe to assume that they are actually Thermate since the former is a World War II technology which has largely been replaced by Thermate): An incendiary used to burn through obstacles. In Batman: Year One, the thermite charge ignited accidentally and destroyed the utility belt. the laser cutter and thermite grenades are a good start, but again, he's taken worse and kept moving at his enemy. other sites mentioned acids (also a good start) and mostly tracking equipment or tranquillizers (not helpful, given that Deadpool shot him with enough tranq to "take out 2 t-rexes" and it barely knocked him out). even if bats sorts out his enhanced senses in time (which he would, because bruce is quite sharp and has fought many enemies with that skill set), again, there's not much on him that can really help him capitalize on that weakness. it's a solid setup for most other fights (and excellent use of space!), but again, how do you guys see this arsenal saving him? because i see his best bet as the miniature smoke grenades, exit stage left & hope to live a bit longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panch Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Can we count vehicles? Because Bats can use those to take out Wolverine. Besides blunt force they also have weapons that Batman can use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I've got yer "goo gun" RIGHT HERE. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Can we count vehicles? Because Bats can use those to take out Wolverine. see, i think i assumed whenever any of these fights go down, bam, it's happening then & there, like some secret wars/battleworld shit. if we play to terrain, wolvy owns him in a jungle, whereas bruce has homefield advantage on the rooftops of gotham...so let's assume the latter. you think he can get in the batmobile fast enough, and then run logan over until...what? he gets up and opens it like a tin can? i suppose a batwing can keep him at safe distance, and a tactical nuke on board could help...but we're flying dangerously close to prep-time arguments here. Besides blunt force they also have weapons that Batman can use. to incapacitate, much less kill wolvy? now we're talkin, cause that's exactly my question: what weapons then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 You just said he had a remote control. I hadn't even thought of the Batwing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 so he uses it like an R.C. car until the tires get slashed? i mean, dude's fought a lotta cars. trucks even! he is not as good at planes though, admittedly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thelogan Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I directly mention the Batwing and this motherfucker starts talking about cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 i'm tryin to help you walk back that vote, and this is the thanks i get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panch Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Bats is smart. He'll lure him on the Batplane, climb while Wolvie hangs on, climbs some more until he makes a Bat symbol silhouette in the moon and then drop the fucker. Sure, he'll heal, but Wolvie will be out of it for a while... and that's when Bats'll run him over in the car :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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