Star Trek into Darkness

[Iambaytor]

I disagree, it's a distillation of only certain events of the franchise sure, but there's been a lot of backward fanbase developed. A lot of people who liked the 2009 movie have gone back to past series and found enjoyment in something that was initially inapproachable due to social stigma and a continuity so twisty and turny that almost anybody who wasn't a die-hard fan couldn't get in. There's a lot that could be done with this restarted universe in much the same way that the Ultimate Marvel Universe allowed new stories to be told with popular characters without having to deal with continuity issues (or the fact that all the actors are super old)

 

A lot of trekkies have been better about what they consider to be the implosion of their established universe, but there's nothing stopping that more stories from being told in that universe because it's not gone, we just went somewhere else. This way we can still tell stories in the old universe with new characters, new stories in the new universe with old characters, and more people than ever now like Star Trek both new and old. This is not a bad thing.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Iambaytor

[FireDownBelow]

Says you. I don't like it and you can't make me. :P

 

No, really, I see what you are saying and I agree that it is valid and true. However, I do not agree with the statement that new stories can continue to be told in the old universe. You must understand, this was primarily a screen series. A few books, but mostly film. I don't see there being any new old films, y'know.

 

Regardless, I personally still feel alienated by the restart so you will have to go see this without me.

[MetalHeart]

I really dug the first one, and I'm seeing the second one because my boyfriend is in it. <3

[Iambaytor]

The Star Trek movies were always the worst part of the series anyway, the number of good Star Trek movies are eclipsed by the number of boring and just outright bad ones and even the good ones usually aren't as good as the series they were based on. The movie-verse can remain in its place and they can easily make a new Star Trek TV show taking place in the old universe. Enterprise was already kind of a reboot anyway, they just chose to work within the confines of the continuity and it just pissed off a lot of fans and got cancelled.

 

Did you really think there was anything left to be said with the Next Generation Crew? I know Michael Dorn's gotta eat, but those movies were just getting worse and worse.

[FireDownBelow]

There's already been five shows. I don't think there's room for more. As I said before, it's just old. I think it should have just been left alone.

 

Yes, I'm aware that some people didn't like Enterprise. I'm not sure why though, having never talked to anyone about it. I enjoyed the first two seasons. It was in continuity...mostly, and had the same feel. Until we got to the Xindi. Bleck. Maybe they were trying to make a point, but honestly, I just didn't care enough to see where the characters went from there.

[Jables]

Agh. I wanna engage based on having seen the second but it's kinda pointless since I don't wish to spoil. Lets just say that much like the first, they're definitely keeping an open line of communication with the 'verse you know, so if for whatever reason they decided to pull a Days of Future Past/ whichever ST movie where the first crew met TNG which i assume has happened, it's more than pheasible if possibly a little depressing for Kirk & Uhura since they haven't aged well.

[Master Star]

I really dug the first one, and I'm seeing the second one because my boyfriend is in it. <3

 

I am with you MH! Happy with the first one and def want to see this on the big screen...helllllo Chris Pine!

[Panch]

How do you know she's not talking about Simon Pegg? Shaun is a (zombie) killer ;)

[Maldron]

Clearly Benedict Cumberbatch.

 

Clearly.

[Mr. Hakujin]

The Star Trek movies were always the worst part of the series anyway, the number of good Star Trek movies are eclipsed by the number of boring and just outright bad ones and even the good ones usually aren't as good as the series they were based on. The movie-verse can remain in its place and they can easily make a new Star Trek TV show taking place in the old universe. Enterprise was already kind of a reboot anyway, they just chose to work within the confines of the continuity and it just pissed off a lot of fans and got cancelled.

 

Meh. Here's my personl Star Trek fan math:

ST:TNG TV Show > ST:TNG Films

TOS TV Show < TOS Films

ST:TNG TV Show > DS9 > TOS TV Show = Enterprise > Voyager

 

Reboot is reboot. It's breathing new life in to characters and a franchise I love. It's nothing at all like what Lucas did to SW w/ the prequels. I literally have HUNDREDS of hours of Star Trek to sift through and re-watch. That shit is secure; its legacy is intact.

 

Did you really think there was anything left to be said with the Next Generation Crew? I know Michael Dorn's gotta eat, but those movies were just getting worse and worse.

I'm kinda w/ you here. They got one decent film (Generations) and one great film (First Contact) outta that crew. They deserved better than those last two films. All Good Things was such a satisfyingly brilliant finale, that they likely could've put that in theaters and made more money than those last two TNG films. I've honestly only seen Insurrection and Nemesis once, so maybe I'm judging too harshly, but I doubt it.

[Reverend Jax]

Meh. Here's my personl Star Trek fan math:

ST:TNG TV Show > ST:TNG Films

TOS TV Show < TOS Films

ST:TNG TV Show > DS9 > TOS TV Show = Enterprise > Voyager

Is there no place in your Trek math for the Animated Series?

 

 

That's some good stuff.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Reverend Jax

[FireDownBelow]

There is no way you can TNG was better than DS9. Well, ok, you can say it but I disagree. I happen to think they were equally good in different ways and for different reasons. Also, Enterprise was better than Voyager. God...I hated Voyager. Am I alone in this opinion?

 

Is reboot reboot when they appear to be fundamentally changing the spirit of the franchise? I tend to think not. Hence my resistance to seeing these movies

[Newtype]

DS9 had great action and a nice long story arc.

 

TOS was pure cheese but it was entertaining as hell.

 

I hated Voyager.

 

Enterprise was playing it safe.

 

The next generation put me to sleep. (I used to love this show)

[Jables]

Guys. Guys. This thread's for the good Star Trek content/revised Universe. Can't we just talk about the JJ movies?

 

Only half-trolling.

[FireDownBelow]

You're right. Off topic.

 

I will say this, did they choose to make a new series of the reboot with the same actors...I would tune in to see what they do. So far, I just don't think the movies are true to the spirit

[Jables]

ST 2009 made me go back and watch some Original Series, and what i took away from it/enjoyed of it was just the kitchy sci-fi and cautionary tales, much like Twilight Zone.

 

The new movies don't have that, if that's what you mean. What's interesting and might make it worth your while to check it out FDB is the fact that it acknowledges exactly where it diverges from the universe you know And Spock's kind of the familiar face for the change. And Into Darkenss spoilers follow

And I thought it was pretty great that in this one Quinto Spock approaches Nimoy Spock and asks him how they dealt with Khan.

. And that was only the first instance of frontal male nudity.

 

 

I feel like this is one of the most respectful 'reboots' I've seen.

[FireDownBelow]

FDB? Isn't that rather formal after all we meant to each other?

 

In all seriousness, that makes two people whose opinions I trust that have told me its not all bad. I will consider it. And I mean really consider it. It helps that you mentioned it acknowledges where it diverged. It's kinda like, well since you admit it, let's move forward.

[the division of joy]

Something something lens flare.

 

First movie in 4 words.

[FireDownBelow]

Dark and gloomy-ish, Burtonesque is what I took away from the first. Oh, and that the new Spock is rather attractive and the new Kirk has squinty eyes.

[the division of joy]

I wonder if he had to Spock had to Zachary Squinto with all the lens flare.

[Iambaytor]

The movies never had the Twilight Zone-esque themes or the exploration or social things either, at least not the ones that are considered to be good ones. Insurrection felt like an episode of the series but nobody liked it, same story with that one where they travel back to the 20th century. Most of them were just cheesy action movies not unlike Trek 2009.

[Jables]

The movies never had the Twilight Zone-esque themes or the exploration or social things either, at least not the ones that are considered to be good ones. Insurrection felt like an episode of the series but nobody liked it, same story with that one where they travel back to the 20th century. Most of them were just cheesy action movies not unlike Trek 2009.

 

No I'm talking about the original series. I've tried with the movies without success thusfar. Not dismissing them, just generally with things that don't grab me immediately I need a fan with me to help contextualise it all.

 

I wonder if he had to Spock had to Zachary Squinto with all the lens flare.

 

And that... There's a place for that kinda stuff

 

FDB? Isn't that rather formal after all we meant to each other?

 

In all seriousness, that makes two people whose opinions I trust that have told me its not all bad. I will consider it. And I mean really consider it. It helps that you mentioned it acknowledges where it diverged. It's kinda like, well since you admit it, let's move forward.

 

Be sure to let us know what you thought!

[Master Star]

Spock is yum. I'd have his pointy eared babies.

[Mr. Hakujin]

And Into Darkenss spoilers follow

And I thought it was pretty great that in this one Quinto Spock approaches Nimoy Spock and asks him how they dealt with Khan.

. And that was only the first instance of frontal male nudity.

I feel like this is one of the most respectful 'reboots' I've seen.

Yes, respectful reboot is a fair assessment. I had to explain to my date this wasn't a prequel, but a reboot. Let me tell ya, nothing tests a girl's geek tolerance like a discussion on parallel universes and divergent timelines in the Star Trek universe on a first date. As for the film, it was a mixed bag for me, and that's partially my date's fault. First, she didn't want to see it in 3D, so every time there was a "hero" shot of the Enterprise, all I could think about was how cool it'd look in 3D. Second, she's a bit of a movie talker, so that whole conversation about parallel universes was happening during the fucking movie. And she was also laughing during a pretty emotional scene that involved crying. Apparently she finds crying in films hilarious

 

So, I'm hopefully seeing this again sometime this week in 3D. Solo.

 

What I didn't like:

 

 

*Spock and Kirk's fremesis statis. I saw what the writers were going for--trying to show their friendship and how strong the bond was, but they did a lot of "telling" and very little "showing." The TOS film franchise had the entire run of the series to show how strong Kirk and Spock's friendship had become. That's what made Spock's passing in The Wrath of Khan so fucking powerful. It just didn't work for me the way they handled it in this film. Not at all. That scene with the reverse death was moving to me, but mostly b/c it reminded me of the scene in TWOK.

 

*Khan's switcheroo. It was unnecessary. All the smart fans knew it was Khan, so making a fake backstory just over complicated things. He is a bad guy. Nope, a misunderstood good guy. Nope a bad guy.

 

*"Bullet" phasers. It worked for me during the first film, but that whole scene where Khan attacked the Star Fleet high command just seemed completely out of place.

 

*Felt more Star Wars than Star Trek. I know a lot of ST fans complained about this w/ the first film, and maybe that tainted my perception this go-round, but I don't think so. It was just maxed out this time. It even felt like some of the music cues were straight up off of John Williams' SW score.

 

*No defense grid around Earth? WTF? Some motherfucker can just warp right in to Earth's gravity field willy-nilly? C'mon man.

 

*Weird-ass random bridge crew members. Bald, black female body-builder? Cyborg guy? Emo-hair blonde girl? Well, okay, not so much her. But really, keep the motherfucking bridge crew the motherfucking bridge crew.

 

 

 

What I did like:

 

 

*Reduced lens flare count.

 

*Bones! Carl Urban does DeForest Kelly proud.

 

*Humor. It had a good balance. Scotty's scenes were all great for me.

 

*Klingons! Nice reveal.

 

*Showcasing all the crew members. Again, good balance of giving the rest of the bridge crew their own moments, but there would've been more of those w/out the weird-ass random bridge crew members.

 

*Kirk's death scene was an interesting twist. Spock yelling "Khhhhaaaaaan!" pretty much sums up this reboot's take on who the real star of the franchise is.

 

*All the nods & references to TOS and films--tribbles, nurse Chapel, Capt. Sulu, Nimoy's cameo.

 

[Visitant]

So I actually was not the biggest ST fan growing up. I hated the idea of a utopian future because I thought it was impossible, plus "high sci-fi" has always been a difficult sell. My friends did make me sit through all the older Star Trek films, and there were parts of the later films and...TNG that I liked? Mostly borg stuff.

 

That being said, I really loved the reboot ST movie. I was skeptical going in and was a changed man after. I was down for where it was going. This time around however, I felt that my lack of knowledge of the ST universe hurt my viewing experience. There was so much was paying tribute to the earlier stuff, it started to detract from my viewing experience some.

 

Did I hate the film? Not at all, I had a lot of fun in it. I just felt like this movie was even more for Trek fans than the reboot which felt like it was made for people like me, that wouldn't normally go see a ST movie.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Bindusara