Mr. Hakujin Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 S5:E14 - Ozymandias Clearly I'm in the minority here as I'm still on Team Walt. My prediction (and in the case of Walt, hope) is this for the next two episodes: Walt spends some time in hiding. We see how the White home becomes abandoned. Then Walt finds out Jesse isn't dead and is cooking for/with Todd. Walt goes back to rescue Jesse--or, alternately, he goes back to get his money and saving Jesse is a by-product. Either way, Walt will be the ultimate reason Jesse survives Camp Todd. It's the only way Walt dies a redeemed man. And I do believe Walt will garner his final bit of redemption in the last episode by saving Jesse. Walt already destroyed/saved his family in E14. That call to Skylar in E14 and kidnapping of Holly puts all the blame on Walt. Skylar will take little to no heat from Feds. Walt knew exactly what he was doing w/ that phone call. He also likely has trust funds set up by Saul for both his kids. Walt dies doing a good deed, and b/c he's Walt, he will likely go out in a semi-heroic way. Only variables I really see are Lydia and Todd. Will they die? Will they become the next incarnation of Gus & Mike? Will Todd put Lydia in a pit and wear her skin Buffalo Bill style? Who knows. 2) turning Jesse in for torture + death, and his confession there...it's not just villainy, its the depth of his megalomania. Walt really thought "beating" (surviving) Tuco & others, outsmarting Gus etc made him an untouchable don. the "you're damn right" was practically iconic; he blames Jesse for what just happened because he can't even consider the possibility that this came about because of him. the cognitive dissonance & its cracks are just brutal, leading to Part of me thought Jesse got what he deserved. Since season one they've been disposing of bodies together and Jesse wants to sulk and wallow and drag Walt down in this mental landslide Jesse has been falling down in all season. Jesse is too bright to know Walt would stand for it. So rather than do damn near anything else w/ his life he turns snitch. No es bueno, Pinkman. 3) the conversation with Skylar - he really thought his family would go along, no questions asked, and that no one was owed the truth. of course he was gonna send holly back, but he had to get in some more emotional manipulation, however hollow, just to control something for a moment. Nah, I don't think his motivation was that devious in that moment... I think the point of that opening flashback to their first cook was to show how that moment, that initial lie, was the beginning of the end of his family. The tragic irony of Walt is that his ego and greed led him to destroy the very thing he was trying to save. Taking Holly in E14 might've initially been an instinct--a last, literal grasp at holding on to family--but it wasn't about control so much as it was about saying goodbye and making things as right, best he could. He knew his family was gone when Jr. made that phone call after wrestling w/ the knife; actually, he probably knew as soon as Hank was shot. Anyway, Walt knew he'd likely never see his family again. And he took the entire blame by making that phone call to Skylar. I won't go so far as to call that heroic, but it was the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panch Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I think you're on to something, Haku. About Walt taking all the blame away from Skylar. Even as the phone convo went on, you can see in her eyes she knew what he was doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Yeah, dat ain't the only thing I was "on to" in that post, Panchy. But Walt's true motive for that phone call felt pretty obvious to me; then again, I'm on Team Walt, so I wasn't looking for him to be hateful out of spite. Again, that flashback at the opening was a beautiful foreshadowing--Walt rehearsing a lie before a phone call to his wife, a lie which he believes is for the greater good/benefit of his family. Very well crafted episode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panch Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) Nah, you made some great points, I just don't want your head to get TOO big. Lord knows that thing is big enough already :P Edited September 17, 2013 by Panch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted September 17, 2013 Author Share Posted September 17, 2013 ...nah. i do acknowledge a bit've the sentiment, but your team status blinds you to some of it. Walt already destroyed/saved his family in E14. That call to Skylar in E14 and kidnapping of Holly puts all the blame on Walt. Skylar will take little to no heat from Feds. Walt knew exactly what he was doing w/ that phone call. He also likely has trust funds set up by Saul for both his kids. Walt dies doing a good deed, and b/c he's Walt, he will likely go out in a semi-heroic way. i like what you're saying about Walt's possible "redemption" but even if he changes his mind & bails out Jesse, what i think you're missing is that it's, as you said, at best secondary to his true goal. he's not noble/heroic for the guilt of seeing a slave of a man he fed to be tortured & killed by neo-nazis. Part of me thought Jesse got what he deserved. Since season one they've been disposing of bodies together and Jesse wants to sulk and wallow and drag Walt down in this mental landslide Jesse has been falling down in all season. Jesse is too bright to know Walt would stand for it. So rather than do damn near anything else w/ his life he turns snitch. No es bueno, Pinkman. i do get what you're saying here - ain't no such thing as halfway crooks - but hypocritical or not? jesse was entitled to a bit've righteous anger at his discovery with the cigarettes. jesse's weak & co-dependent and it's shitty how as a grown man he's allowed himself to put all the blame for his actions onto walt, true, but his snitching - even after the pseudo-shakespearean misunderstanding with ominous bald men by payphones! - was about the only way he had left, since hank stopped him from BBQ'ing walt's house (his original plan). Nah, I don't think his motivation was that devious in that moment... I think the point of that opening flashback to their first cook was to show how that moment, that initial lie, was the beginning of the end of his family. The tragic irony of Walt is that his ego and greed led him to destroy the very thing he was trying to save. Taking Holly in E14 might've initially been an instinct--a last, literal grasp at holding on to family--but it wasn't about control so much as it was about saying goodbye and making things as right, best he could. He knew his family was gone when Jr. made that phone call after wrestling w/ the knife; actually, he probably knew as soon as Hank was shot. Anyway, Walt knew he'd likely never see his family again. And he took the entire blame by making that phone call to Skylar. I won't go so far as to call that heroic, but it was the right thing to do. ...okay, yeah, he said what he needed to say to put Hank's death on himself & minimize her complicity, that's a good point. but i'm not putting a bulk of it past an emotionally fired up megalomaniac - he meant what he said about how dare she tell walt jr, whereas "you'll end up like hank" clearly fits what you're saying. the one who knocks wasn't just saying a lot of that stuff about all he did for them & how ungrateful she was; it served your purpose, sure, but that wasn't him acting (okay, that was kinda meta but you know what i mean) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) Does anyone else wish we could have seen Skylar and Marie clueing Walt Jr in, uncut? Edited September 17, 2013 by Reverend Jax Forgot to spoiler tag it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 Anyone else notice the bit in the fire station, with the chess? A king in the corner being moved behind the safety of some pawns. Symbolic and also fitting of the episode title, Ozymandias. Never losing a game of chess etc, watchmen ref etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 Does anyone else wish we could have seen Skylar and Marie clueing Walt Jr in, uncut? i can totally see the desire for it here, but it would've been another brutal gut-punch in an episode full of them. from here i can kinda agree, but during said ep? i was grateful Anyone else notice the bit in the fire station, with the chess? A king in the corner being moved behind the safety of some pawns. Symbolic and also fitting of the episode title, Ozymandias. Never losing a game of chess etc, watchmen ref etc. lookit you, all referencing comics and shit! great catch though, for real ps anyone else think it wouldn't be out of character for walt to last minute attach his name to that chemistry conglomerate company? random thought, just thought it'd be funny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend Jax Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 i can totally see the desire for it here, but it would've been another brutal gut-punch in an episode full of them. from here i can kinda agree, but during said ep? i was grateful Honestly, it would not have advanced the plot, so I understand why it wasn't in the episode, but I really hope the filmed it for a DVD extra or something, because I just want to see the performances of Anna Gunn and Betsy Brandt and RJ Mitte when they go through the incredibly awkward conversation. Like everyone else in the show, they are all such talented actors, and it would be a hell of a scene to perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 So that's where his pants went! Some references you might've missed from S5E14:Ozymandias, which was the highest rated show of the series--ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 great link haku, and DoJ called the chess piece, cant believe i missed it. love that shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alive she cried Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Two episodes left, my head doesn't want this show to end, but my heart certainly does. It can't take this kind of sustained suspense much longer. At least my favourite characters in The Walking Dead, Game Of Thrones, Boardwalk Empire and Homeland have pretty smooth paths.... Jesus, why are we all gluttons for punishment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 aside (i swear ill move this to that thread later): are you still a homeland fan after season 2? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 lookit you, all referencing comics and shit! great catch though, for real Next I'll be getting involved in politics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alive she cried Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 aside (i swear ill move this to that thread later): are you still a homeland fan after season 2? Definitely! Yeah, I mean, it did go a bit "Hamsterdam", but I'm still riveted, and I never seem to have a clue where they're going with the series. Can't wait for season 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted September 18, 2013 Author Share Posted September 18, 2013 (edited) but the show forgot it was about terrorism and made it about their unrequited love and then deus-ex'd its way into a finale after chasing suspects in the woods and having osama hide in a well-guarded factory and maaaaan Edited September 18, 2013 by The NZA my bad DoJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the division of joy Posted September 18, 2013 Share Posted September 18, 2013 Does nobody use spoiler tags anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonfire Posted September 19, 2013 Share Posted September 19, 2013 Definitely! Yeah, I mean, it did go a bit "Hamsterdam", but I'm still riveted, and I never seem to have a clue where they're going with the series. Can't wait for season 3. You gotta problem with 'Hamsterdam', son? Keep on walkin'. I'll save it for The Wire thread though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keth Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 (edited) Ozymandias writer on the episode (Not Percy Bysshe Shelly) I’ve seen different reactions to Walt’s phone call to Skyler. Some say it was all a ploy to save her from prosecution; others says that it was real and he was railing at her. Does the debate surprise you?Walley-Beckett:I personally feel like it wasn’t open to interpretation. I would hope that people got that it was an absolute ploy on Walt’s part. It is the family-man part of Walt playing the part of Heisenberg to exonerate Skyler. I was hoping that the process of the lie and the subterfuge would be clear and that viewers would be with Skyler in their understanding. When we first hear Walt, we think he’s gone full Heisenberg. It’s outrageous and horrible and abusive what he’s saying! But then we start to put the pieces together as Skyler does, and I was hoping people would sort of be traveling that journey with her. Edited September 21, 2013 by axel_napalm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted September 21, 2013 Author Share Posted September 21, 2013 ...damn, doesn't get much more decisive than that...point to haku Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted September 23, 2013 Author Share Posted September 23, 2013 well, goddamn "nothing personal" that ep was a fuckin' journey. crazy that after the depths of his own son's rejection, it was grey matters (legacy) that pushed him to break on through. i think the combination of those things did it; Walt is dead, Heisenberg is all that's left. wonder if he'll find a way to sink grey matter on his way out? we know walt gets the hardware, we know he gets the backup pill (my guess? his own backup exit if this goes south, which it likely will), don't know much beyond that past the look we've had at the fucking compound these dudes live in...Walt seems certain its 5-6 of them but i dunno. part of me thought lydia might turn over to the feds, but she signed her own death warrant going from 'we're done" to "92%? THE SHOW MUST GO ON" that fast. the marathon thing they're putting on starting wednesday is awesome. there's nothing going right now that's gonna touch the momentum this finale has next sunday. *edit: and the spoiler-free finale promo that was played at the end Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keth Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 I just hope Jesse gets out of this. I didn't think they would actually off Andrea, but.. fuck. Next week is going to be Feels City Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panch Posted September 23, 2013 Share Posted September 23, 2013 The only thing that matters now happens next week. May god have mercy on our souls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The NZA Posted September 24, 2013 Author Share Posted September 24, 2013 buzzfeed brings you the best of BB reddit, as seen on LL's facebook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hakujin Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 (edited) The casting for "Mr. Fix-It" was fucking masterful. Truly well done there. I also liked that we got an extra 10-12 minutes in tonight's episode. I hope this means the finale will be extended as well. *The scene w/ Saul in the hideout was spectacular. Saul just laid it out and Walt is still chasing that money/status/significance. * Flynn turning completely like this just felt wrong. I could understand it in the heat of the moment w/ the knife fight, but damn. Well, on second thought, I guess he had months of news reports and likely bullying at school (not to mention his Aunt Marie) to fully turn him against his dad. But...damn. * And it looks like pride/money is what is going to ultimately lead him to Camp Todd. *That ricin is so for Lydia's tea. I will enjoy watching her drink it. And damn Vince Gilligan's eyes if he denies me that! Edited September 24, 2013 by Mr. Hakujin I want to watch Jackie Brown now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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