Comic book movies

[Unidentified Source]

If Punisher is PG-13 than theyll do it the same way, It's my belief that they would have been much more successfull and can still be much more successfull if they make the films Rated R.

[Silent Bob]

Yeah, Daredevil would've been better R-rated, too. And it was meant to be R. Thankfully they're releasing an R-rated or unrated cut eventually. As for The Punisher, I'm not sure what they're shooting for. I wouldn't be shocked if they weren't for PG-13...stupid studios. Hopefully Ghostrider will get an R. It's directed by the same guy as Daredevil, and that man knows when comic movies should be R-rated. Whether or not the studio steps in and makes him tone it down again, we'll hafta see.

 

But overall I'm with 2T on this one. Ghostrider always bored me, so I don't really care how the movie turns out. I only hope it does well because if it's a success, that'll give Mark Steven Johnson more clout to make Daredevil 2 how it should be made.

Edited August 26, 2003 by Silent Bob

[Ganny McVagflaps]

I'm interested in the R-rated Daredevil DVD. Is it actually gonna happen? When I went to see Daredevil, the first 20 minutes I thought I was on to a winner, but it kinda went downhill from there on. Yes, there were some great moments, but then scenes like Matt and Elektra in the playground were cringe worthy.

 

What's the deal with Daredevil 2? I'd kill for a Guardian Devil movie. The only problem being, since Mysterio is a Spiderman villan*, and since the two are owned by different studios, who would be the bad guy? Also Dr. Strange'd have to be involved. If they could do it the way Smith wrote it it would be amazing, but it's highly unlikey it'd happen.

 

*okay, so was Kingpin, but who's keeping score...

[Reverend Jax]

Some Marvel comics can work in PG-13. X-Men's and Spider-Man's plots for example are tame enough to kept them really interesting within the boundaries of PG-13. Others, like Punisher and Ghost Rider, are clearly incapable of being any good if not R rated. Daredevil falls somewhere between. Clearly it could have benefited from remaining cut he way it was originally intended, but the final result of Daredevil wasn't nearly as bad as a PG-13 rated Punisher or Ghost Rider would be.

 

I think lots of people (like myself) feel the way 2T does about DD. It clearly had potential. You left the teather feeling like it had everything it needed to be incredible (as far as production value, cast, direction, etc), it just wasn't incredible. That is clearly the result of studio meddling with in the editing room. The uncut version will undoubtably be better, and probably be really awesome.

[Silent Bob]

I'm interested in the R-rated Daredevil DVD. Is it actually gonna happen?

 

Yeah, the R-rated DVD is happening. There's no release date yet, but it has been confirmed. There's apparently about 30 minutes worth of footage that they're cutting back in.

 

What's the deal with Daredevil 2? I'd kill for a Guardian Devil movie. The only problem being, since Mysterio is a Spiderman villan*, and since the two are owned by different studios, who would be the bad guy? Also Dr. Strange'd have to be involved. If they could do it the way Smith wrote it it would be amazing, but it's highly unlikey it'd happen.

 

And as for Daredevil 2, both Smith's Guardian Devil storyling, and Miller's Born Again storyline are being considered for the plot (Smith has even been asked, informally, to write or at least help with the script though no word yet on whether he's considering it). My guess is they'll lean more towards Born Again because that storyline would follow the first movie a lot easier than Guardian Devil would. Some of the bigger parts from Guardian Devil were already used (ie: a Daredevil/Bullseye fight in a church, a stolen billy club thrown through someone's chest) and the character of Karen Page wasn't built up enough to warrant the massive role she'd have in a Guardian Devil movie (though apparently there's a bit more of her in the R-rated cut). So I think they'll go for Born Again. Unfortunately Born Again doesn't include Bullseye, and everyone knows the audience is going to want to see Bullseye again. We'll see. They might take elements from both, maybe have Kingpin play the Mysterio role (both plots revolve around a villain trying to drive DD mad). There's also the option of using Target. Some people at Marvel have hinted that Target's plot would be perfect for Daredevil 2. But Smith has to actually finish it, first.

 

And you're right, 2T, because of the different movie studios, there can't be any crossovers between DD and Spidey (that's why Ben Urich didn't work at the Bugle) but DD's already got dibs on the Kingpin, and I don't really see Spidey trying to snatch up Mysterio anytime soon, because he's really kinda a lame villain - Guardian Devil aside/

 

I think lots of people (like myself) feel the way 2T does about DD. It clearly had potential. You left the teather feeling like it had everything it needed to be incredible (as far as production value, cast, direction, etc), it just wasn't incredible.

 

Well, Jax - plotwise I think a lot of that has to do with the lengthy origin flashback. DD's origin isn't as well known as Superman or Spider-man, and it's not as simple as Batmans, so they had to spend a lot of time educating the audience (coulda been worse...they didn't even mention Stick). On top of that, there were all the minor characters to introduce - Kingpin, Bullseye, Ben Ulrich, Foggy, Elektra. There were so many characters that many of them had to be pushed aside. No one but DD fans know how much significance Matt's secratary (Karen Page) or that voice on the answering machine had on DD's history. I'm hoping the sequel will be much improved now that the characters are introduced.

Edited August 27, 2003 by Silent Bob

[Reverend Jax]

I'm hoping the sequel will be much improved now that the characters are introduced.

It was with X-Men 2.

 

But all that's besides the point. I'm not sayignt he movie was a dissapointment adaptation-wise. I'm not a big DD fan. I read Spidey and X-Men back in the day and only knew the basics about DD. I wasn't going into that movie with a huge knowledge of the story. The way they handled the origin story and such is besides the point, the movie wasn't good. Movies can be poor adaptations but still be good.

[Ganny McVagflaps]

Speaking of poor adaptations, did anyone go to see LOEX? I passed on it, but I've heard alot of positive reviews as well as the negative ones (then again when can you trust reviews? Case in point "Punch Drunk Love"). I'll probably try it out when it's released on DVD.

[Unidentified Source]

I wasn't wild about DD's plot either. If Punisher does go PG-13, than I see a lame movie coming out. If any should be R it's that one. Ghostrider should be interesting - I've always been a fan.

[Ganny McVagflaps]

Well the Punisher movie site doesn't make it look like there's a PG-13 flick on the way. I was also psyched to see that it's got alot of the characters from the Garth Ennis/Steve Dillon Punisher mini-series in it (Spacker Dave, Mr. Buppo, Joan). I'm looking forward to this one. It could be the highlight of next summer....

[The NZA]

Marvel's already hyping it as "The summer of Punisher", so ya know - Ennis' book gos MAX (!) which means it can be as nasty as it wants...and you & I both know how well Born is going. And yeah, lotsa Ennis supporting cast members.

DD - again, not many know, but he's had some of the best writing out there. "Gaurdian Devil" is good, "Born Again" is better (though the tail end of it with the super soldier thing, it might be better without that, i think) - if you want a really good one that could work after some more Kingpin setup..actually, with the way 1 ended, im not sure, but anyway - read Bendis' stuff, specifically "Underboss", with Kingpin's men throwing a coup...damn fine writing. The next arc, "Out", when DD's identity goes public...holy shit, that'd be cool, and Bendis practically writes these things for scripts.

I gotta hear more bout that unedited DD; like 2T, i thought it was goin strong. No reason it couldntve stayed that way and been a lesser-knwon great, like Crow or something..twas a shame.

Ghost Rider, even i dont know much about. I figure itll be like Blade - nothing like the book really, just cool action.

Oh, and yeah Bob, while were on it, he's crackin a lotta jokes bout it, but your boy needs to finish Hard Target one day, not to mention Black Cat.

[Silent Bob]

Oh, and yeah Bob, while were on it, he's crackin a lotta jokes bout it, but your boy needs to finish Hard Target one day, not to mention Black Cat. 

 

(Sigh) I know. Even an ultra-loyal fanboy like me is getting pissed about that. Target looked like it was building up to something pretty big as far as DD goes (though I dunno how earth-shattering it can be, since it's separate from the continuing storyline) and Black Cat was a helluva lotta fun. Bastard needs to finish that before he even thinks of shooting that Fletch movie.

 

"Out" was a great storyline, but I don't think it'd work for a movie. At least not as number 2. Nobody would care. I mean, in the first movie four people already separately figured out DD was Matt Murdock. Nobody would really care if in the second people more (oh, shock!) people found out.

 

Yeah, my money's on Born Again, but with Bullseye worked in somehow. I doubt they'll include that supersoldier bit. That seemed completely tacked on, unnecessary, and way too convenient of a way to tie things up to me. I was kinda disappointed that it ended that quickly and cleanly, to be honest.

 

Now, as for the uncut version of Daredevil, I'll put what I know so far. I mentioned alla this in the Rumors thread before, but since it's more pertinent here, I'll repeat it. The R-rated (or unrated) cut of Daredevil will have about 30-35 minutes added into it. It will also have the confessional scenes and the lovemaking scene cut out of it. The reasons for those cuts are supposedly made clear when you see the new footage. Just about all of the added scenes are character scenes (with the exception of a Kingpin scene where he beats the crap out of some of his guards that should be added back in). No fight scenes were cut out of the movie originally. In fact, it was the studio that requested that more fights be added in, early in the production. So, yeah, hopefully there will be a lot more backstory, character development, and the like. More stuff with Foggy, Kingpin, Karen Page (I don't think there's much of Bullseye added, sadly) and some other supporting characters. They still haven't announced a release date.

[Ganny McVagflaps]

More Foggy - UA! I really enjoyed Jon Faverau's performance, more than Colin Farrel's even.

 

And hey, did someone say something about Kevin Smith's comics being late? To think I didn't notice....

 

Anyways...

This is supposedly Ghost Rider - I think he musta crashed into Richie Sambora circa 1987 to get that funky 'do. I'm happy to inform you that

the hair shown in that image is likely to be replaced by CGI flames in the actual film

 

Edited August 27, 2003 by 2track

[Silent Bob]

.......tell me they're kidding.

[Ganny McVagflaps]

I hope so....then again, I don't really give a shit what happens to Ghost Rider. It's definitly a PG-13 (Nicolas Cage said so), so it's more than likely gonna suck hairy Hollywood balls anyways.

[Ganny McVagflaps]

The cat is finally out of the bag. HALLE BERRY slinks into a strapping new ensemble this week when filming starts in Vancouver for Catwoman. The Oscar-winning actress plays the Felonious Feline (see also: Princess of Plunder, Mistress of Malevolence) from the Batman series, a role made famous by Eartha Kitt in the '60s TV show and reinvented by a neoprene-clad Michelle Pfeiffer in 1992. Berry's leather cat suit for the 2004 film is "very bare, very urban, very downtown," she says. Her character, Patience Price, is a scientist at a cosmetics company who transforms into Catwoman — or should we say Sex Kitten?--to take on her nefarious boss, played by Sharon Stone. Benjamin Bratt as a detective is the love interest for Berry's Catwoman, who is both villainess and heroine. "She's not Superman," Berry says. "She's not trying to save the world." Instead, like a pampered house pet, Berry says, "Catwoman is out to save herself." Could be quite a purr-formance.

 

 

Looks shitty...though Halle always looks good...Guess she won't be coming back as Storm now :( That sucks 'cause I can't stand it when cast members get replaced.

[JunkerSeed]

Did you guys see the same Daredevil movie I did? Is the R rated cut going to change the terrible distracting soundtrack? Is it gonna improve the choreography of the fights? Is it gonna improve the bad dialogue and such? I mean, I didn't think daredevil was terrible, just mediocre. And not because of it's watered down content. I mean, the sex scene would just have some god awful evanescance song playing in the background and so on... As far as comparisons to X-men go, I thought the first X-men showed buttloads of potential, it had some great ideas, a great cast, and had a lot of exposition to do. None of my problems with the first X-men dealt with the filmmakers' overall approach to the material. DD on the other hand, I thought was mediocre because they took no chances, went completely with style over substance and produced a predictable little music video. I guess a longer cut could solve some of those problems, but I dont see how anyone can say this one could ever be edited into being all that great. Now, maybe, if they give this guy all sorts of creative controll in the sequel, it will be an entirely diffrent movie from the first one in every way shape and form, but I really dont see all of the potential you guys are talking about.

 

As far as Punisher goes, I dunno, maybe if it's an R I'll start getting my hopes up, but that one damned picture they put up haunts me. Thomas jane is just bein all pouty like he needs a hug. It could just be a bad photo tho. All other news on it is good.

 

And they could do whatever the hell they want with Ghost Rider. It could be a G for all I care, it doesn't have to be faithfull to any kind of source material as far as I'm concerned. They should do whatever the fuck they want with it. I just hope they don't end up making "Spawn 2: suck harder"

[The NZA]

McFarlane was sayin Spawny-guy 2's a go, but its a comic license, so who knows. And yeah, i was actaully haflway into the character back then, but you know the movie's shit when all my friends are like "...well...you shoulda seen the fuckin' cape, man".

 

I think (personally) DD's potential lies in the fact that he's an underdog in the Marvel Universe with, in my opinion, the finest writing any single character has ever seen. "Born Again", "Man without Fear" (year one), Kevin Smith's "Gaurdian Devil" and Bendi's current stint of "Underboss" (Sopranos-like, damn was it good), "Out", "Hardcore" and such have - again, my opinion here - actually surpassed Miller's extensive work on the character, and that's sayin a lot. And the thing is, the stuff that's there isnt, for the most part, over-the-top or arcs bogged down too heavily in continuity - this isnt like saying "wow, Age of Apocalypse was fun, it should be a movie!"; no, Born Again could be a damn fine sequel (tho the end is kinda crazy), and Bendis' stuff...jesus. There's actually a lot more of the legal side of him than the costume, to be honest. And its not filler; again, Bendis writes & edits things very cinematically, i really think it could work.

 

...but that's all assumin we were talkin bout "potential" from source material. Again, i say, this one coulda been like the Crow: no one really knows about it, lower-budget, but cool as fuck. In a way, they tried that: the first fight scene, the bar fight one, does this strobe thing that in my eyes was goin for that scene in Crow 1 where Lee rushes the gangsters on their own table, above the club...only, like you said, the execution was poor. Even the soundtrack showcasing was present in Crow, but yeah, it was a much finer soundtrack by far (tho i did kinda enjoy the Rob Zombie theme).

As a fan, id say the director took some liberties & tried new things - the painkillers, that morally ambigous scene in the beginning where he lets the man die in front of the subway (very odd; DD's got more reason than Batman not to see people die when the writing is good), that awful playground scene with him & Elektra (i only say awful as a fanboy 'cause its retraded of him to "play" out in the open, while hiding a secret identity more hidden than Spidey), etc...some of it worked, like the painkillers, some really didnt. I also really thought the origin stuff where the kids are picking on him & he's somersaulting alla sudden was right outta the 80's...that coulda easily been a much cooler martial arts training scene.

Anyway, the movie failed to catch DD's character at all for me, and outside of some of Farell's scenes and the ones with Foggy & Matt talking, i admit i was disappointed. I'm hopeful of the R-version & its outtakes, but like Junker, im skeptical any of it can change what ive said above.

[Ganny McVagflaps]

I went to see Spawn on mushrooms with a few of my friends and afterwards one of 'em made the comment

 

"It wasn't a good movie, it wasn't a bad movie, but it was fucking brilliant"

 

To this day I still have no idea what he was babbling about. Hugs not Drugs!

[Reverend Jax]

Halle Berry might still be in X-Men 3 even though she's in Catwoman, because Bryan Singer's isn't going to start shooting X3 until he does something else first. Since she got the Oscar, she has been demanding a bigger role for Storm, and that might cause trouble if Singer and the writers don't want to give it to her, but beign in Catwoman shouldn't be a conflict. Since Jackman's Wolverine is the star, maybe Storm could be his new crush, with Jean being gone until Phoenix comes. Storm and Wolvie hooked up in that alternate universe story arc of which I forget the name of (I think it was with Cable in it), but sticking to the source material is nto something that concerns me with X-Men. X-Men isn't about the story, it's about the characters and the Mutant/Human struggle and the X-Men/Brotherhood diocotomy of the mutant population. This story can be told a million different ways, the key is to incorporate the themes correctly, and Singer has done this pretty well in X1 and exceedingly well in X2. So, Storm and Wolvie hooking up with Jean out of the picture (for now), wouldn't bother me in that it's not accurate to any of the books' story arcs, cause Singer is doing the things that matter correctly. So if Berry demands a bigger role, I think that would be a good solution. Anybody else want to chime in on that?

 

Has anybody else realized that X-Men has three Oscar winners in it, including the person to win it at the youngest age and the first black woman (first black person if you consider Berry won it earlier in the night than Washington) as well adn McCellan? Has Stewart ever gotten an Oscar?

[Silent Bob]

I guess a longer cut could solve some of those problems, but I dont see how anyone can say this one could ever be edited into being all that great.

 

The reason I think the R-rated cut has more potential is because, yeah the action scenes weren't all that great (hey, Johnson's never done action before - what can you say?) but DD has never been about the action - not in the comics, and not in the original draft of the movie. DD stories have always been more importantly about the characters. The studio made Johnson cut out character-building scenes so that they could make room for more poorly-edited action scenes. With those scenes back in, there's a potential that the characters could become the focus of the movie, not the action. And that would be a good thing. Especially for Daredevil.

 

The movie did have a lot of potential, and it took a few chances that most mainstream superhero movies don't take. As IC mentioned, the painkillers, the moral ambiguity. One of the ones that jumped out at me the most was when Murdock was on the rooftop in the rain with Elektra, and she asks him to stay instead of chasing after the bad guys - and he does. Just the fact that he chose to stay with the girl, rather than do his job is an impressively realistic decision. Superman never did that. Batman never did that. Spider-man did the opposite! But what reallife guy would choose to go jump around on rooftops in tights and get the crap beat outta 'em, over going to bed with Jennifer Garner. It had some good moments and it had some bad moments. And from what I've heard and read from the director, they've taken note of what worked and what didn't. Hopefully they'll be able to apply that to a Daredevil 2.

 

Halle Berry might still be in X-Men 3 even though she's in Catwoman

 

Actually, as I recall, Wesley Snipes wanted to play a DC character in a movie, but he wasn't allowed to in his contract since he was still involved in Marvel's Blade series. I can't remember which character it was off the top of my head, but I could look it up. That's why Halle Berry taking the Catwoman role has sparked speculation that she won't be in any more X movies. Though, the very fact that she could accept the role of Catwoman may mean that they've set aside that petty company squabbling. Or, more likely, it just means that Halle Berry has enough clout right now to choose whatever role she wants. I wouldn't be shocked if she isn't in X3, though. She's demanding way too much attention and money for what is already a big-budget ensemble movie. I wouldn't be too disappointed, myself. I don't particularly like her as Storm. She's too young and hip - two traits I never equated with Storm. I like her in everything else, though.

 

And for what it's worth, that Catwoman costume looks like shit. Even Halle Berry can't make that look good. Are we sure they haven't let Joel Schumacher back into the Batman series?

[Ganny McVagflaps]

Joel Schumacher + Batman = BatCock

 

Hmmm...that gets me thinking, what's worse...Hulk-cock or BatCock? I mean, Batman Forever had Drew Barrymore looking uber-hot in it...that was good, right? And then Alicia Silverstone being all hot and Nicole Kidman being the hottest in her whole carrer and Elle "Couldn't Act My Way Out of a Paper Bag but Am Really Fucking hot and that Reminds 2Track, he should rent out 'Sirens' again" keeping up the hotness. Then again, the nipples...the shot of Batman's ass...ugh...

[Silent Bob]

Actually, I'm willing to defend Batman Forever. Yes, it was a bad movie, but I still found it fun to watch just because Tommy Lee Jones and Jim Carrey have so much fun playing the bad guys. Whenever they're on-screen, the movie is enjoyable. Whenever they're not, it blows (unless it's a particularly good shot of Nicole Kidman's cleavage, of course). Sadly, Ah-nuld and Uma couldn't come close to doing that for Batman & Robin.

[Ganny McVagflaps]

Don't forget about sweet, sweet Drew Barrymore....

[Silent Bob]

Ohhhh yeah, how could I?

 

 

 

 

And on that note -

 

 

 

 

Now, back to a serious discussion of comic book movies...

[The NZA]

From here...

 

Tarantino Explains Why You Won't See Him Adapting a Comic Book Movie

 

Wed, Oct 01, 2003, 06:10 PM PT

By Vanessa Sibbald

 

LOS ANGELES (Zap2it.com) - Sure, adapting comic books for the big screen is the latest rage in Hollywood, but it's one trend that Quentin Tarantino says he won't be following, thanks to comic book geeks.

 

"The reason I'll never do a comic book movie with like, 'The Flash' or something like that is **** those comic book geeks, man. You can't please them," Tarantino emphatically tells Zap2it.com. "I might do a comic book movie, but I'd come up with my own characters where I'm god and I'm the expert and not you guys."

 

"The thing is, film geeks can be your best friend, but man, they can be your worst enemy," he adds.

 

Of course, Tarantino includes himself is a self-described film geek. For example, for his latest film "Kill Bill," he admits to watching "at least" one Shaw Bros. film a day. In fact the film itself is a kind of compendium of all of his favorite films rolled into one.

 

"It's like taking 30 years of my favorite grind house movies and genres and sticking them into a duck press and that's this movie," he says. "If you're a film geek and you like this stuff, then you're going to see it on one level and enjoy some of these touchstones and references and elusions and hopefully, you'll enjoy what I've added new to it."

 

But he also wants to make it clear that you don't have to be a film geek to enjoy "Kill Bill."

 

"If you understand where I'm coming from, your feet can be more firmly planted on the ground when my fastballs come at you, but if you don't know at all where it comes from, then you can really be taken off your feet," he says.

 

"There are a lot of young people who have never seen these movies that I grew up with and maybe 'Kill Bill' will be their first introduction to them," he adds. "[Then] they'll go out and see some of the pop samurai movies and Shaw Bros. movies and everything and that just keeps the process going."

 

As a bit of a comic fanboy...sad we wont see him on it, but the man has a point.